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johnnyflake45

Manhattans ???

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ratcheer
Not usually a problem for me. I can drink Carpano by the glass as if it were a glass of wine!

And that is probably what it is really for - an aperitif.

Tim

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johnnybogey

So I made both a Manhattan and Red Hook last night. I've come to the conclusion that cocktails just aren't for me, mainly, the vermouth. Something about the smell and taste just wasn't enjoyable for me. I thought maybe the stuff went bad but I cracked both bottles open for the first time tonight.

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moebimoebi

I usually do:

-2oz high-proof rye (Ritt/WT101)

-1oz vermouth (Antica or Punt e Mes)

-2 dashes bitters (Angostura/orange/or chocolate depending on mood)

-Stir

-Garnish w/ Luxardo cherry

I also enjoy a Bookers Manhattan or Black Manhattan from time to time.

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ratcheer
So I made both a Manhattan and Red Hook last night. I've come to the conclusion that cocktails just aren't for me, mainly, the vermouth. Something about the smell and taste just wasn't enjoyable for me. I thought maybe the stuff went bad but I cracked both bottles open for the first time tonight.

Well, there are many other cocktails that have nothing to do with vermouth.

Tim

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johnnybogey
Well, there are many other cocktails that have nothing to do with vermouth.

Tim

Yeah, plan to try and Old Fashioned and Sazerac cocktails next.

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tanstaafl2
Yeah, plan to try and Old Fashioned and Sazerac cocktails next.

If you still want to give a Manhattan style one last shot and are feeling bold try the Black Manhattan with either Averna or Ramazzotti. Neither should be hard to find in a reputable good sized liquor store. Or find and ask at a decent cocktail bar and they can usually point you to a source!

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johnnybogey
If you still want to give a Manhattan style one last shot and are feeling bold try the Black Manhattan with either Averna or Ramazzotti. Neither should be hard to find in a reputable good sized liquor store. Or find and ask at a decent cocktail bar and they can usually point you to a source!

Thanks tanstaafl2. In your experience, does vermouth always have this sort of stale smell to it. Probably not describing it properly but can't help but feel like it went bad but the bottles were sealed.

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tanstaafl2
Thanks tanstaafl2. In your experience, does vermouth always have this sort of stale smell to it. Probably not describing it properly but can't help but feel like it went bad but the bottles were sealed.

Not how I would describe it but everyone has different perceptions I suppose. Carpano has more vanilla than anything. The Amaro's don't typically use a wine base at all and smell more like herbs and spices. Ramazzotti is more orange and cardamom while Averna has less orange and is perhaps a touch sweeter although still has some bitterness.

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johnnybogey
Not how I would describe it but everyone has different perceptions I suppose. Carpano has more vanilla than anything. The Amaro's don't typically use a wine base at all and smell more like herbs and spices. Ramazzotti is more orange and cardamom while Averna has less orange and is perhaps a touch sweeter although still has some bitterness.

Thanks tanstaafl2. Will give those a shot.

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johnnyflake45
So I made both a Manhattan and Red Hook last night. I've come to the conclusion that cocktails just aren't for me, mainly, the vermouth. Something about the smell and taste just wasn't enjoyable for me. I thought maybe the stuff went bad but I cracked both bottles open for the first time tonight.

If you happen to have a Madeira on hand, try using it in place of the Vermouth. It offers a completely different flavor profile.

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tanstaafl2
If you happen to have a Madeira on hand, try using it in place of the Vermouth. It offers a completely different flavor profile.

Madeira is an excellent Manhattan variation. Indeed, port, sherry and madeira are all good variations in a Manhattan as I can attest from personal experience!.

It is worth being aware that Madeira can have several different profiles much like sherry, from dry to sweet. And as fortified wine, a bit like sherry and port, that is then deliberately heated or cooked, unlike port (that used to occur naturally when shipped on sailing ships back in the day but is now deliberate) it tends to be well oxidized and therefore very stable after opening. It will last for many weeks.

The four Madeira grape styles I know of are Sercial (the driest), Verdelho (a little sweeter), Bual (very sweet), and Malmsey (typically the sweetest, like a PX sherry but more nutty than raison-y to me).

I would tend to use a tawny port, a amontillado or a sweeter oloroso sherry depending on how much sweetness you want and probably a Verdelho or Bual Madeira in a Manhattan as a starting point and then experiment from there!

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smokinjoe
So I made both a Manhattan and Red Hook last night. I've come to the conclusion that cocktails just aren't for me, mainly, the vermouth. Something about the smell and taste just wasn't enjoyable for me. I thought maybe the stuff went bad but I cracked both bottles open for the first time tonight.

As I have begun to bring in cocktails to supplement my straight whiskey drinking, I have had a similar experience as you, JB. I have found that I am not a big sweet vermouth fan. Your staleness description in your other post is similar to what I get. I compensate by significantly reducing the amount of SV called for in a recipe, and shakin' the bejeezus out of the Angostura. I am getting more appreciative (tolerant :D) of the red vermouth profile when added in the proper amount, though.

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johnnybogey
If you happen to have a Madeira on hand, try using it in place of the Vermouth. It offers a completely different flavor profile.

Thanks Johnny. Been meaning to search for some of this.

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johnnybogey
As I have begun to bring in cocktails to supplement my straight whiskey drinking, I have had a similar experience as you, JB. I have found that I am not a big sweet vermouth fan. Your staleness description in your other post is similar to what I get. I compensate by significantly reducing the amount of SV called for in a recipe, and shakin' the bejeezus out of the Angostura. I am getting more appreciative (tolerant :D) of the red vermouth profile when added in the proper amount, though.

Thanks Joe. Glad to hear I'm not the only one. Will try to reduce the amount of SV but also try some of the alternatives mentioned here.

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jersey12

Enjoying my favorite standard Manhattan this evening.

3.75oz WT 101 Rye

0.75oz Carpano Antica

3 dashes of angostura 

The only way to make this better (IMHO) is to sub Willett 4yr rye for the WT but I haven't seen any of that around here in quite some time.

As long as I have a 5:1 Manhattan made with a 100+ proof rye, I'm a happy camper.

 

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Stew

I have to agree with most here... A good Manhattan is a great cocktail. I remember my dad drinking them when we had company or went out to dinner. My parents would make a pitcher of Manhattans and just keep serving their guests as the evening went on. I remember as a kid lots of grown up laughter and whooping and hollering and dancing to the albums on the Hi-Fi...( there's a throw back for ya!) 

I've tried making both a Rye Manhattan and a Bourbon Manhattan. Bourbon seems a bit sweeter and milder in comparison to the Rye recipe. I like both depending on my mood that night. Here's my recipe:

2 1/2 oz Maker's Mark or Bulleit Rye

1 oz Carpano Antica Vermouth

3 dashes Angostura bitters

Ingredients are added to a mixing glass with ice. Stir for 20-30 seconds so the mixture blends and chills. Strain into your glass ( I don't use stemmed glasses, my buds and I are too clumsy and we break 'em!) I use a cocktail tumbler or something in that nature; I like the heavier glass in my hand.

I also make a Bulleit 95 Rye Old Fashion. Great drink. Gets the evening started with a warm glow and off we go!

 

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bigtoys

Mine is based on the Rush Street Manhattan at Gibsons Steak House in Chicago. 

Basic guideline is 3-1-1; just like the TSA rules for carrying liquids on planes.

3 parts whiskey (they use WR), 1 part sweet vermouth, 1 part cherry lliqueur/brandy (they useCherry Heering) , Ango bitters

I usually use Cherry Marnier (limited availability) or Luxardo Maraschino Cherry Liqueur 

I also usually use Carpano Antica, but got lazy today and grabbed the NP from the inside fridge.

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the original from a few weeks ago

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Edited by bigtoys

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bigtoys

another interesting taste to introduce is walnut

the other night (another NP vermouth night) I added Black Walnut bitters

there is also a walnut liqueur from Napa called Nocino

 

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kjbeggs

Great minds Bigtoys, That glass in your first pic is the same style I use for my Manhattans.

I also often work in the Black Walnut bitters.

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