Buckky Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 EC12, like some others, is to be commended for not pushing the profit limit, but rather doing the class touches of a unique bottle...I especially like the EC wide mouth...and the easy and attractive cork....however the biggest expense in a bottle of whiskey sitting on the shelf at our local liquor store is TAXES....for a typical bottle of whiskey, more than 50% of the price is in local, state and Federal TAXES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8erdane Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 OMG Bettye Jo, I wasn't saying EC was a lower brand. I was just adding a thought on how a NEW distillary might want to recoup some investment by offering a NEW lower aged brand. Can I ever say anything right on this forum? These NIKEs are really starting to grow on my palate though...I wonder which bottling would go best with them?Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 I would guess that, on an individual bottle basis, it is one of the greater costs of producing the bourbon. Your right that there is a lot of money tied up in aging a bourbon for 12 years, but that cost gets spread out over however many thousands of bottles get produced. I figure packaging and labor take up the lion's share of the cost. JMHO.Well, let us calculate a number. Betty Jo says a line produces 180-220 bottles per minute. Use 200 bottles per minute for our calculation. That is 96,000 bottles in an eight hour shift. And she says it could take as many as 22 people to run the bottling line. At $25 per hour that cost is $4,400 for an eight hour shift. Divide $4,400 by 96,000 and you get 4.58 cents per bottle. Add in the cost of the bottle and machine amortization and I will bet you have less than 10 cents a bottle in bottling costs.Regards, jimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I doubt that the bottles come that cheaply. I would figure probably $3 to $4 dollars per bottle is tied up in the bottle alone. And I doubt they are producing that 8 hour a day every day. Also figure the costs related to the labor on the distilling side some 12 years earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boone Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 B-i-n-g-o Hmmmmm...gotta sing it with a beat Thanks, Gary Bettye Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boone Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 You are fine ... Take those Nike's out and put em up in the closet ... Bettye Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boone Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I bought two new barrels, several years ago, to make display cases for the booth... The cost was $114.00 each...I could almost bet they cost more now... Bettye Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boone Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Hey...I wish that my lines would run a straight 8 and be done...I would have the graviest job of em all...But that only happens once and awhile... There is a log sheet that is calculated every week and posted for all of us to see what our lines are doing...The reliabilty on all the lines is a little over 56% +...The highest reliabiltiy that I have seen logged is 86% and that was done a couple weeks ago on my line C-line...We were on a straight run of Vodka...No label changes, no tank changes, no line changes, no nothing...Just sit there and watch em go by ...I wondered when I saw the numbers what it would take to reach 100% I wondered if it was possible?...Ya know...it takes a while just to turn everything on, fill up all the required materials and set the machines in motion, to reach full speed...You can see and hear the bottles comming...but it takes awhile to get from dumper to case sealer...It's not down time...it's "wait" time...but it's still time not producing a actual count... There are so many factors involved in the price...I could write lists that would go on and on...Glass..someone told me years ago that the glass costs alone, were in the millions...electricity...I can only imagine...Manpower...good grief...there are 300+ employee's...a couple hundred are union...31 are supervisors...There is a row of chief's offices before ya even get to Max's office...There's upstairs offices...they contain marketing folks...Then, on the other side is the sales folks...both of these departments require lots of travel around the United States and sometime abroad...A major unseen chunk in that department...On the far side, there is a section just for Hpnotiq...We all know, there is the Distillery and the Warehouses...You could write a book there... There are those AWSOME looking big "rig" trucks to pay for and the truckers salaries...Transporting from Louisville to Bardstown, product and grain... All the lab folks, making sure the product is spec and QC is being being done...They deal with the government people who come in at anytime and go anywhere...Grabbing bottles, testing proof, accuracy in fill point...legal warnings etc... The government gets a big chunk every week...It's the law...They also impose very stiff penalties if the product is not legal...Did you know, that the "warnings" labels on each and every bottle has a spec size for every size bottle?...Did you know, if a Government Inspector finds "A" bottle in the warhouse that does not have a warning that the distillery if fined $10,000.00 for "every bottle" that they find?...It's some really serious stuff... Oh Well...I just wanted to point out "just a few of em for ya" Last but not least...Some of ya may notice I have a bit more time to post?...I have just completed "another" course (Mechanical Blueprint reading and drafting) at the technical college "that Heaven Hill pays for"...That is another cost factor...The lists is nearly endless Bettye Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I think barrels may be up to $120 or so now, but if you get 175 bottles or so bottles out of that barrel (depending on proof), that's about 68 cents for each bottle's share of the barrel cost. It's more than the grain cost (about 13 cents) and may be the largest single "raw material" cost.Bottles, even the fancy ones, are pretty cheap, certainly not $3-$4 dollars in the quantities used by the distilleries. Probably less than 50 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Hey you always give the straight goods, I just said it in a different way. Proves we Canucks really do speak the same language as Americans. I do, anyway, and so by the way does Dave in Canada with whose opinions I rarely disagree.(Now I see where the expression "straight goods" comes from, clearly it's a metaphor deriving from hallowed whiskey terminology).You and all the staff at HH care a lot about fine whiskey, it is evident in many ways.Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boone Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 This is a picture of the platform...I hope it's somewhat close to the picture that I tried to describe, in my previous post... Snake farm comes close to a description of the lines ...That's what I thought when I first saw it... Sam Edelen, is the operator...It's a big responsibility job...This is located high up on a "perch"....The couplings on the right, are "the boot lines" leading to the tanks...The couplings on the left, lead to the fillers on the bottling lines...He will connect a "junction line" to connect the two... The floor is nothing but a big ole drain...reason bein...When you relieve the pressure off that line (you can tell by the color and the thickness when they have product under pressure) a lot of it will drain to the filler...but ya won't get all of it...there will be product left in the "junction line"...It goes down the drain ... Bettye Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8erdane Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Haven't they ever heard of putting a bucket under the lines when they seperate them? I'll be happy to supply the bucket... Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyc Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 There used to be some strict guidelines in place to prevent that very thing. A lot of it goes down the drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8erdane Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Sorry Bobby, just dreaming out loud. Just a shame that anything that good could meet such a fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneCubeOnly Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I imagine greater care is taken with the specialty bottlings. Those largest diameter tubes would be more for the high-volume products, isn't that right Bettye Jo? If not, I'd hate to imagine one of those monster hoses full of EC18 going down the drain!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boone Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Gotta tell this one...This incident happened to me about 6 weeks ago... One of those lines that he has his hand on leads to my line (down in the botttling house)...D-line (glass 1.75) Those lines are under a lot of pressure to get the product to it's final destination... The gasket in the coupling was worn (leaking bourbon heavily) and I needed to replace it...I called for the working foreman to cut the product and relieve the pressure off the line...I went to the shop to get a new gasket... When I came back I got a 25 foot ladder and climped to the top where the leak was...I asked the working forman (again) did he cut the product and relieve the pressure...He said yes...I took his word for it...BIG MISTAKE... I untied the wires on the ears of the coupling and took my screwdriver to pull one of the ears back...I felt a small vibration...GOOD GRIEF, I KNEW I WAS IN TROUBLE...I had a split second to hold on for dear life...I grabbed on to the line...(25 feet up and on top of a ladder) and it blew... That bourbon hit me full force in the sternum...Powerful force...It was all I could do to hold on...Could not breathe...eyes burning...could not let go...That line was pumping, gallons and gallons and gallons of bourbon, like a fireman holding a hose putting out a big fire...Cept that hose was turned the wrong way and this "firewoman mechanic" was up on a ladder 25 feet up... I finally got my hand on the ladder and was able to get down...Blinded...GASPING for air...I could not get any air, they turned the fans on me, to let me have air...I could not see for awhile...They washed my eyes with water...Burning and Burning, everything burning, my throat, my nose ...It went staight up my nose, into my sinus cavity...My skin was burning...Just awful... Shut down two lines for about 45 minutes...I was drenched...My supervisor was drenched and the working foreman was drenched... That was pretty scarry...If that line would have been "flex" instead of stainless, it would have smashed my face in...I am lucky that it was a secured stainless line... I called Pat, he came to pick me up...After it was over. I could laugh about it...Like all the "cat calls" for a wet tee shirt contest...All the way home he kept cracking jokes like ... Ohhhhhhh Babyyyyyyy you sure smell good...and Bettye Jo...you really get into your job...You smell so good I can drink you up... I asked the working foreman what happened?...He told me that they cut the product off the wrong line and he did run bottles to relieve pressure but the product was still in force in the lines... Valuable lesson...I put my "life" in someone else's hands...That will never happen again...I got lax for a bit...I have to keep in mind, that this is very dangerous equipment that I work on....The next time...I will cut product "myself" and relieve the pressure off the lines "myself"... Bettye Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boone Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 You are right...The single barrel bottlings are run "out back" on a smaller scale of "everything"...and slower... Bettye Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8erdane Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Nothing to say here but WOW. And glad you're still here with us Bettye Jo. Liquids under pressure are definitely dangerous. In my old days in the farm equipement industry I knew a farmer that lost half his arm when a hydraulic line ruptured on his round baler. When you work around the stuff all the time, you tend to be a bit more relaxed until something like that happens. Unfortunately, after time most people relax again until 'the next time'. Let's all hope there isn't one of those.Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrel_Proof Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Thankfully you held on and are still with us, my friend. Without a doubt, that is the most amazing story posted on the forum. Including the jokes you got from Pat on the way back home, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEG3 Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Betty Jo , That spray you got ,, just reading about it here was enough to scare me , , , Glad to hear you are Ok I would be very disappointed to hear that anything had happen to you. .... I enjoy the insight and knowledge you share here ... Hope you have a great holiday and the coming new year.. Bill g. Take care and be safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcheer Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 That is an amazing story, Bettye Jo. I am glad you made it through, okay.After that, I am also amazed if you can still try a nice taste of bourbon from time to time!Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted December 26, 2003 Author Share Posted December 26, 2003 Valuable lesson...I put my "life" in someone else's hands...That will never happen again...I got lax for a bit...I have to keep in mind, that this is very dangerous equipment that I work on....The next time...I will cut product "myself" and relieve the pressure off the lines "myself"...Thank goodness you are OK Betty Jo. Lines under pressure are very dangerous. I worked in an oil refinery for many years. Lines under pressure that were supposed to be "clear" were often the cause of accidents.Betty Jo, someone great once said "trust but verify". That is the best way to protect yourself. You don't want to insult your fellow workers by doing everything yourself, but find a subtle way to verify.Regards, jimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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