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IowaJeff

Templeton Rye Building Real Distillery

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IowaJeff

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/business/2016/10/20/templeton-rye-coming-home-iowa/92419080/

 

I don't see this working for a variety of reasons.  The brand is in decline. The hype has died down, brand loyalty has greatly eroded, there are better options on the shelf for cheaper.  I get trying to salvage the value of the brand before it absolutely crashes, but they are looking at 2023 as the absolute earliest that they would be able to release a product that's close to the quality of their current product.  That's 7 more years of the brand stagnating and consumers looking at Bulleit and Rittenhouse etc next to Templeton and real craft distillers continuing to release better products.  Templeton is a brand built on false pretenses.  It had the advantage of being one of the first 'craft' distilleries and being better than other craft distillery products (because it wasn't).  Those advantages are gone. It's now well known that it's not a craft distillery and its not better than it's big distillery brethren. Fast forward to when they start releasing Templeton distilled products - they'll be way behind other craft distilleries on quality and will still have the taint on their brand from their previous misleading practices.  And they are kidding themselves if they think they'll be able to produce a rye as good as MGP.

 

 

 

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chasking

While I agree that they are playing catch-up, for better or worse Templeton still has a lot of brand recognition out there in the drinking world, and I don't know that they have suffered that much negative fall-out due to their shenanigans about their craft distiller status or the source of their whiskey.  Hard-core whiskey fans know about that stuff, but average bar-goers, not so much.

 

They are certainly facing competition now that they weren't a few years ago, but the whiskey is still MGP rye, and still pretty good, so it will not surprise me if they can maintain a solid, albeit not dominant position in the rye whiskey market for a few years.  The real test will be when they start switching over to their own juice.

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Kpiz

Thanks for sharing. That timeline is very daunting indeed.

 

The article says sales are down in Iowa, likely because of the bad press there, but I'm not so sure that the rest of the country knows (or cares) about Templeton's shady business practices. And if that's the case, perhaps they are not in decline like we think/hope they are.

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tanstaafl2

I would be surprised if they are able to distill enough to meet demand initially even if sales were to stay about the same, much less if they grow at all. They may never make enough of their own stuff and may continue to supplement/blend other whiskey long after they have their own distillate aged and ready to bottle even if they let it get to 4 or more years of age.

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Kpiz
1 hour ago, tanstaafl2 said:

I would be surprised if they are able to distill enough to meet demand initially even if sales were to stay about the same, much less if they grow at all. They may never make enough of their own stuff and may continue to supplement/blend other whiskey long after they have their own distillate aged and ready to bottle even if they let it get to 4 or more years of age.

 

It wouldn't be surprising if their long-term plan was to blend their own rye with sourced rye. However, it certainly flies in the face of their new efforts to legitimately be (or at least, seem like) an Iowa product. There would continue to be an asterisk on their "made in Iowa" claim if not all of it is made there. Unless of course they find an Iowa distillery to source rye from.

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BottledInBond

Maybe they plan to at least start making their "flavoring package" 100% in Iowa....

 

Their labels remain extremely shady even after the lawsuit. I have no problem at all with NDPs. But I hate people that make stuff up and try to trick the casual consumer that doesn't think about this stuff nearly as much as I do. I don't know why they're afraid to be honest. It works for others just fine. 

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IowaJeff

 

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 4:44 PM, tanstaafl2 said:

I would be surprised if they are able to distill enough to meet demand initially even if sales were to stay about the same, much less if they grow at all. They may never make enough of their own stuff and may continue to supplement/blend other whiskey long after they have their own distillate aged and ready to bottle even if they let it get to 4 or more years of age.

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 5:56 PM, Kpiz said:

 

It wouldn't be surprising if their long-term plan was to blend their own rye with sourced rye. However, it certainly flies in the face of their new efforts to legitimately be (or at least, seem like) an Iowa product. There would continue to be an asterisk on their "made in Iowa" claim if not all of it is made there. Unless of course they find an Iowa distillery to source rye from.

 

I didn't think of that.  They probably will have to do some blending to keep up production and maintain the flavor profile.  Surely they wouldn't market a 90% MGP 10% Templeton product as made in Iowa.  sarcasm. 

 

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squire

I wrote these people off years ago.  They're scoundrels and hyenas don't change their spots.  I'll get my MGP rye from others who are upfront about what they're doing. 

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Harry in WashDC
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, squire said:

I wrote these people off years ago.  They're scoundrels and hyenas don't change their spots.  I'll get my MGP rye from others who are upfront about what they're doing. 

Yup.  Yupyupnotheydon'tchange.  Yup.

 

KTIV is a news station in Sioux City, Iowa.  It is about 110 road miles/2 hrs 20 minutes Northwest of Templeton, Iowa, and the new TR distillery.  Templeton, Iowa, is, itself, 86 road miles/2 hrs Northwest of Des Moines.   A KTIV.com press release dated 8 AUG 2018 quoted TR Distillery Manager Lester Brown as follows:  "Seventeen months ago we broke ground, we are making Templeton Rye in Templeton, Iowa effective May 23, that’s where barrel one sits in the warehouse."

 

SO, I'm guessing those nice, labeled TR bottles I've seen on my local purveyors' shelves lately (e.g., TR 4 year old @ $35) that NO LONGER suggest it is made in Iowa are STILL full of MGP instead of homemade.  Let's see - 4 years from 23 May 2018 is 24 May 2022.  Are we there, yet?

 

RE: blending homemade with NDP, like Whistle Pig did/does, is an art, not a production step. (BEAT NAVY, Dave.)  I don't know if TR is up to it, yet, what with one barrel of almost one-year-old homemade distillate sitting there.

 

EDIT - ANOTHER THOUGHT - TR keeps bumping up the age of its rye.  Did it buy tuns of 4YO from MGP and stockpile it or did it buy barrels?  OR, is it buying stock as it needs it from MGP's own rickhouses?  OR, did it buy a bunch of barrels and then pay MGP to hang onto them (for a price) until they needed them?  Because the price hasn't jumped a lot,  I'd guess the last.  BUT, I'm not inside the business so don't know how that works.

Edited by Harry in WashDC

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wadewood

I found interesting that Young's Holding, the parent company of  a CA wholesaler Young's market, owns 78% of the company.  They are the Templeton wholesaler in that market as well.  Violation of the 3 tier system?

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smokinjoe
On 5/10/2019 at 4:10 PM, squire said:

I wrote these people off years ago.  They're scoundrels and hyenas don't change their spots.  I'll get my MGP rye from others who are upfront about what they're doing. 

This was just one “scalliwag” away from a perfect post.  I can almost hear you calling them scoundrels and scalliwags while sitting on your front porch VOB BIB in hand, before shooing them off of your Property.  

:D

 

 

 

 

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squire
3 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

This was just one “scalliwag” away from a perfect post.  I can almost hear you calling them scoundrels and scalliwags while sitting on your front porch VOB BIB in hand, before shooing them off of your Property.  

:D

 

While shaking my cane of course.

 

 

 

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EarthQuake
Posted (edited)

As someone who lives in Iowa, Templeton is an embarrassment. But, most people in Iowa don't realize that, nor does the drinking population at large, just us whiskey nerds. So they will likely be fine.

Edited by EarthQuake

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Harry in WashDC
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

This was just one “scalliwag” away from a perfect post.  I can almost hear you calling them scoundrels and scalliwags while sitting on your front porch VOB BIB in hand, before shooing them off of your Property.  

:D

 

 

 

 

I dunno about this.  I thought Squire was an orange capped OGD BIB person.  That said, though, VOB "100" is sure giving OGD BIB a run for prime space in my bunker.  AND, I did see a bottle of TR while picking up some Chef Boyardee ravioli Saturday AM (in anticipation of yard work on Monday when I can eat it from the can behind the garage out of sight of, and without being laughed at, by The Spouse).  The TR bottle label did state that it was distilled in Indian after stating that it was "Produced and bottled" in Iowa.  I still didn't buy any.

 

ASIDE - When I was a kid AND when I was in the Army, Vienna Sausage was what I craved.  For the last several months, it's been CB Ravioli which I've been buying on the sly and then eating cold out of the can.  WHAT UP with THAT??

Edited by Harry in WashDC
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squire

OGD is a preference Harry but I can be tempted and my way of dealing with temptation is to give in.

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PaulO

Templeton has Al Capone on their label, who was famous for what? - being a crook.

Company starts out selling stuff they didn't make, but will switch over to their own product soon/eventually.

Like we've never heard that before.

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BottledInBond
16 hours ago, PaulO said:

Templeton has Al Capone on their label, who was famous for what? - being a crook.

Company starts out selling stuff they didn't make, but will switch over to their own product soon/eventually.

Like we've never heard that before.

Yeah, even the NDPs that I tend to like, such as Smooth Ambler, Willett, and High West have stumbled with this transition to their own make to varying degrees. I like the Willett house rye but their bourbon is bad so far. Smooth Ambler has been pretty bad with their own juice (has anyone bought a backup bottle of Big Level?). High West has been going downhill as they have been incorporating their own make into blends. Or look at WhistlePig putting out awful crap when they try to use their own juice..... 

 

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Vosgar
19 hours ago, Harry in WashDC said:

For the last several months, it's been CB Ravioli which I've been buying on the sly and then eating cold out of the can.  WHAT UP with THAT??

So.......what's your whiskey of choice with cold out-of-the-can pasta? :blink:

Or does it really matter?

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Harry in WashDC
59 minutes ago, Vosgar said:

So.......what's your whiskey of choice with cold out-of-the-can pasta? :blink:

Or does it really matter?

Belmont Farms makes Virginia Lightning, a 100 proof white whiskey.  Mix it one-to-one with Orange Crush.  Be sure to be sitting down.  It'll be several hours before you wake up.

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flahute
4 hours ago, Harry in WashDC said:

Belmont Farms makes Virginia Lightning, a 100 proof white whiskey.  Mix it one-to-one with Orange Crush.  Be sure to be sitting down.  It'll be several hours before you wake up.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

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flahute
8 hours ago, BottledInBond said:

Yeah, even the NDPs that I tend to like, such as Smooth Ambler, Willett, and High West have stumbled with this transition to their own make to varying degrees. I like the Willett house rye but their bourbon is bad so far. Smooth Ambler has been pretty bad with their own juice (has anyone bought a backup bottle of Big Level?). High West has been going downhill as they have been incorporating their own make into blends. Or look at WhistlePig putting out awful crap when they try to use their own juice..... 

 

It turns out that distilling is hard.

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LCWoody
On 5/13/2019 at 11:21 PM, flahute said:

It turns out that distilling is hard.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the bubble pops. Who will survive, who will be acquired, and who will just go out of business, because their product just doesn’t taste good. (Because, like you said, distilling is hard) 

There is a reason that not that long ago (and still today) there was only a few major distillers, they had the best product and survived through the years. And I’m sure they will be here long after....

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