Rookie Mistakes

[Hrchokie]

I have only been seriously drinking bourbon for a short while. Though I know far less than most here on the topic I consider myself far more educated due to SB. Va being a control state doesn't produce a lot of the unicorns but does have a decent selection usually at a great price. In the beginning I wanted to try everything. This has caused my liquor cabinet to be cluttered with more than a few "shelf turds". Just curious if any others have made the mistake of buying pretty bottles full of crap ? What other things would you avoid if just starting in the hobby? I probably have around 75 bottles maybe 25 open with 80% decent stuff. What to do with the junk? Hate to pass it off on friends. Lol

[BFerguson]

Don't be afraid to dump it.

I know, literally throwing money down the drain. We've all bought a dog rocket at some point.

I posted once about such a dog, and not a cheap one either. John Hansell was kind enough to comment, and told me to dump.



Sometimes, you just need to hear it from somebody else that's it ok.

B


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[fishnbowljoe]

Good topic H. 

 

FWIW, been there, done that.  When I first got into bourbon and joined SB, I bought anything and everything, sometimes just 'cause. One time I was at a store with my son and was deciding on what to try next. My son pointed out a bottle that he thought was "cool", so I bought it.  My bunker swelled, and my wallet got thinner. Thank goodness those days are in the past. I've figured out my taste preferences, and in doing so, I've gotten a little more picky with my purchases the last few years. I now buy what I know I like, and on occasion something different. My bunker has shrunk to a more manageable level, and my wallet is doing better too. 

 

The thrill of the hunt for the latest and greatest, tracking down dusties, and ferreting out LE's was fun for a while. My journey got less fun as prices started going up, things got harder to find, and the "secondary market" reared its ugly head. My enjoyment now is pretty much drinking my favorites, and sharing a pour or two with friends and fellow SB members. Who knows, maybe I've achieved my Bourbon Zen. Still, whiskeyrexia nervosa  tends to rear its ugly head from time to time, so one never knows. 

 

Cheers! Joe

[Harry in WashDC]

What Joe and Fergie said.  Some older threads offered up barbecue recipes, drink recipes, vatting techniques, etc.  For instance, one super-oaky bottle I had was NOT improved with (a) water, (b) vanilla extract, (c) ginger ale, (d) other bourbons added to it, (e) apple sauce (don't laugh - more than one bad bourbon can be ingested by hiding it in food).  Bottom line, though is: dump it and use the shelf space for something you like.

[CardsandBourbon]

I recently got into bourbon too.  My son had a few bottles and a friend of mine has more than I can count.  I started out with some of theirs so I got an idea of what I liked.  I basically buy small batch, single barrel and not too many of what most people consider "everyday stuff".  I have 30 bottles, with 25 being different ones.  I haven't really found anything that I didn't like.  There are a few that I will probably just use for mixing or cooking but most I will continue to sip.  I have my favorites but I also like to drink what sound tasty to me at that particular time.  I think if you stay with small batch or single barrels you're less likely to find one that you end up feeding to the kitchen sink.  

 

There are some that I won't buy again but many that I will.  Part of the fun of bourbon is finding out what you really like.  I will say that there have been bourbons that I have purchased after reading some SB posters thoughts and ideas on ones they've purchased.

[garbanzobean]

When in doubt, buy Lusty Claw.

[Richnimrod]

As to your question about what I'd avoid; I'd say (unless you're really trying to help a beginning 'crafter', and don't mind over-paying to the max for garbage juice) AVOID Craft Bourbons you don't get an opportunity to taste first.     They are almost universally waaaaaaaay over-priced, and way more often than not, so different from accepted norms that I find most of 'em ... well, awful.

 

As to your question about ones I've bought and regretted; ANY Woodford Master's Collection offerings.... for basically the same reasons I mentioned about the craft stuff.      I foolishly bought one of the over-priced turds early on in my Bourbon journey, and when it tasted lousy to me, I put it down to my lack of an experienced palate (I wasn't sure I knew what was good).     I bought one more a year or so later (slow learner) and finally got it through my head the stuff they are so proud of, just isn't in my wheelhouse at all.     Hell, I liked bottom shelf stuff at $13/750 way better!

[Richnimrod]

11 minutes ago, garbanzobean said:

When in doubt, buy Lusty Claw.

Save yourself, Hrchokie!    DON'T Buy Lusty Claw!!!!!!   Eric is yanking yer chain.

[Hrchokie]

Just now, Richnimrod said:

Save yourself, Hrchokie!    DON'T Buy Lusty Claw!!!!!!   Eric is yanking yer chain.

If it has a pretty bottle it may very well be there already behind the Wathens and Calumet Farms

[Hrchokie]

9 minutes ago, Richnimrod said:

As to your question about what I'd avoid; I'd say (unless you're really trying to help a beginning 'crafter', and don't mind over-paying to the max for garbage juice) AVOID Craft Bourbons you don't get an opportunity to taste first.     They are almost universally waaaaaaaay over-priced, and way more often than not, so different from accepted norms that I find most of 'em ... well, awful.

 

As to your question about ones I've bought and regretted; ANY Woodford Master's Collection offerings.... for basically the same reasons I mentioned about the craft stuff.      I foolishly bought one of the over-priced turds early on in my Bourbon journey, and when it tasted lousy to me, I put it down to my lack of an experienced palate (I wasn't sure I knew what was good).     I bought one more a year or so later (slow learner) and finally got it through my head the stuff they are so proud of, just isn't in my wheelhouse at all.     Hell, I liked bottom shelf stuff at $13/750 way better!

Agree on the Woodford MC although I do enjoy the Brandy finish . Luckily I found a few that I really like early on, EC 12 ,ER and I happened to walk in to the LS as they were setting a case of ETL out. I only took six home with me thanks to trying it earlier at a bar due to reading about it here. Good call on the craft bourbon. Have yet to try one that I like

[Charlutz]

I went down that road and bought more than a few I didn't like. I made manhattans and old fashioneds with them or otherwise stomached them down if they weren't too bad. A couple others were brought to parties where I knew they'd be mixed with soda or people wouldn't care. Sticking with the big distilleries is a good idea. Another is to be careful in stores. Lots of owners and clerks have absolutely no idea what is a good bourbon beyond their mainstays. Unfortunately, that doesn't stop them from recommending them to you. Best to read up here, search out a label you can trust and then taste taste taste until you figure out what you like. You'll make mistakes, but the only way to know what you like is to know what you don't like. 

 

[BigRich]

There is no sure fired short cut to saving yourself the wallet ache of buying things that you don't like. Everyone's tastes are different and I've had people who I've drank with for close 20 years love a bottle that I can't stand. You just don't know until you experience yourself. I'm luckily at the point where Joe is and while my purchasing hasn't necessary slowed it has gotten more focused.

As for your shelf turds, well I was lucky to have a wife would loves bourbon/rye and ginger so most of my meh bottle went over to her. A good solution could also be to host a neighbor or local whiskey night. You might be surprised what others like that you don't.


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[Paddy]

I've never had to pour anything out.  Bottles are learning experiences; never mistakes.  If you've become educated enough to determine that you don't like one... well, that's what friends (and parties) are for!   

[JTaylor]

One thing I've found helpful is to jot down brands or take pics of the bottles you see at the LS that you think you might want to try and then walk out... go home and look them up in the Bourbon of the Month thread and read the reviews. I've been saved from  shelf turds many more times  than I've missed out on good bottles. Once in a while you'll still feel the overwhelming urge to jump at an unknown, but you'll find more times than not it's worth the wait to see what this group has to say. If you want to get a shot at any LE stuff you'll need to spend money at their store so you'll end up with some real doozies along the way any how... and once in a while you'll get a "Hey, that's not too bad!" out of those but I have yet to have an unknown sourced or craft bottle be OMG amazing.

[PaulO]

Bourbon Of The Month thread - yes.

I gave up on anything less than 90 proof.

I don't buy much NDP stuff.  If I do, I know who made it.

I'm very wary of fancey bottles.  

If something really is good, the liquor store people don't need to promote it.

[jvd99]

Don't be ashamed of dumping the really really bad stuff.  I've drained a few, mostly were gifts from unsuspecting relatives who thought they were doing me a solid by getting me the newest craft bourbon.  I also agree with JTaylor, taking a picture of it and then researching it here and online could help avoid the turds.  I do this all the time on bourbon and, mostly single malts, I think might be dusty, but am not sure.

[flahute]

I've dumped a few. It happens. As Big Rich said above, it's impossible to avoid a turd 100% of the time. Getting recommendations from here is the wise course of to take but as noted, palates differ. Truth is, you have to try everything once to know for sure. And you have to go through part of a bottle to give it a chance and to be sure you don't discount it due to a bad palate night. Take the ones you don't like to parties and leave them behind. Someone else is bound to like it.

[0895]

2 hours ago, Hrchokie said:

If it has a pretty bottle it may very well be there already behind the Wathens and Calumet Farms

Those 2 are definitely classic turds.  Luckily I tried them at a friends house first.

 

I agree.  If it's not doing anything for you, either leave it at someone's house, or dump it.  Shelf space is more important.

 

This makes me remember when I was younger and didn't have much money, someone gifted me a handle of Jim Beam white label.

Almost every ounce of that got turned into hot toddy's.  I must confess to being slightly sad when it was empty, but the shelf space it freed up was so nice.

I make my toddy's out of OGD 114 now as kind of a way to respect where I came from in this journey.

Edited March 16, 2017 by 0895

[Guest]

My simplest rookie issue is too many bottles open.  I had such a great desire to taste everything.  I don't know if I would actually do it differently if I started over -- but I do find myself now putting a limit on the number of bottles I have open, and requiring myself to finish open bottles before opening new ones.  I also may have spent more money than I needed to on lower shelf bottles -- out of sheer curiosity.  I've yet to spend premium dollars on any stinkers -- but I probably have more ~$20 bottles than I need. 

 

Related -- and maybe even more important (it turned out to be for me anyway) I think focusing solely on bourbon and drinking it straight is kind of closing one's world view down a bit.  It's great to dig deep on a single spirit to learn about it and focus...but in retrospect, my Whiskerexia Nervosa meant that I spent more money than I should have solely on bourbon -- and now I find myself wishing I had integrated more variety into my purchases.  To that end, The Rum, Eau De Vie, French Spirits, and Cocktail, sub-forums here are great places to hang out and learn and soak up the ambience. (Rye too! let's not forget about Rye!)   Anyway, I'm glad to have come on board here shortly before Bruce (Tansfaal2) became Staight Bourboner of the Year, because his range of depth and knowledge about a wide variety of spirits is a great source of knowledge and entertainment(!) here -- and, I think, his breadth of experience is something to strive for.    

 

[b1gcountry]

You can learn a lot by picking one bottle and drinking it until it's gone. You learn about your palate, and how you like top drink it, plus what makes it taste different, better or worse. Trying different bottles each night might be fun, but you never know if you don't like something why you don't like it...

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[flahute]

1 hour ago, Steve L said:

My simplest rookie issue is too many bottles open.  

 

I don't see this as an issue 

I have quite a few bottles open. I love the variety. Sometimes I go into bottle kill mode to get rid of ones I'm not crazy about but that happens less now that I know what I like. If I have some at less than half fill level I'll concentrate on those to clear room.

Variety is the spice of life ya know!

[JoeTerp]

I've made purchases that I wouldn't make again, but nothing so terrible I poured it down the drain. My least favorite to date was Wiodford Reserve which I thought tasted exactly like cough syrup. I've had others that I didn't care much for (hello Angels Envy), thought were ok but overpriced (cough Jeffersons Ocean), or thought were ok but uninteresting (Basil Hayden's). Ultimately they all taught me a little something. 

 

As as an aside I think pricing and selection are pretty terrible at VA ABC's. Everything is at MSRP which is great for a few items but typically more expensive for most  items. They get next to nothing in terms of barrel picks ( and I'm pretty sure that the ones they do rarely get are just sent along from the distributor rather than actually being picked by someone). And now everything is a lottery including some botttles that are very common elsewhere (1792 single barrel recently was in a lottery). 

[musekatcher]

5 hours ago, JoeTerp said:

Wiodford Reserve which I thought tasted exactly like cough syrup.

 

Considering how popular WR is, and the recognition and awards it has received, you may want to revisit a bottle: 

 

http://www.proof66.com/whiskey/woodford-reserve-bourbon.html

 

Finding it overpriced is fair and plausible.  Finding it rejectable is inverted from wide spread conventional opinion, and begs to question the circumstances, not the bourbon?  Was it an unopened fresh bottle?  Were you on medication (not a joke, some meds alter your palette), on a new diet?  Just ate a heavily seasoned, oily meal, head cold, etc?  I consider WR to be above average a reliably good bourbon for anything - not my favorite considering price, but still above average.  I would also say AE fits the same bill.  But, taste is taste, and in the end, if all other factors are not masking or spoiling the experience, some bourbon is not going to please everyone - in fact, any BOURBON is not going to please everyone.  I dislike any chocolate, it doesn't agree with my palette, and many if not most folks cannot understand it

[garbanzobean]

11 hours ago, Richnimrod said:

Save yourself, Hrchokie!    DON'T Buy Lusty Claw!!!!!!   Eric is yanking yer chain.

How else are we supposed to find out how bad it is? 

 

In terms of mistakes, there's only so much one can do.

 

1.) You are probably going to like at least some things that others do not.  That is a good thing, but you won't ever know if you only do what people who you identify as knowing more than you recommend.  I enjoy Stagg Jr., Larceny, most Old Forester, Bernheim, and several other Whiskies that people outside of SB.com pan regularly. 

 

2.) You are probably NOT going to like some things that everyone else likes.  I've never taken to PVW15, 20, or 23.  I don't like ECBP, or EC12, or ECSmB.  I don't like a significant portion of Buffalo Trace distilled products.  I don't like Baker's or Booker's.  I can sit here and wonder what is wrong with me, or I can drink what I like and make sure to re-try things I havent liked every so often to see if my palate has changed.  That does not mean buy a bottle of the stuff.  Try a friend's bottle, a store sample, or try it at a bar.

 

3.) In general, avoid craft whiskey or whiskey from NDPs unless you know where the booze is coming from.

 

4.) And this is the most important guideline: whenever possible, try before you buy.  Everyone here at SB seems to espouse that, but we also feel free to ignore it.  Maybe it's because we have our legs under us, or maybe we are just a bunch of boozed up hypocrits.  

 

5.) If you get access to well reputed LEs at MSRP and you can afford it, stop hemming and hawing and just buy it.  Don't expect the whiskey to be much better, but you'll satisfy your curiousity and settle down much faster.  If you don't get access to them, try them in a bar or accept that you can't get them.  Whatever you do, don't troll secondary.  Preferably ever, but at least not until you actually know yourself and the bourbon world.  

 

6.) Variety is the spice of life.  Much of what drives people to buy anything and everything is the quest for variety.  Accept that bourbon is a fairly well defined style and that if you want real variation in flavor, you need to try new things.  Finished Whiskies, ryes, malts, rums, brandies, etc etc etc.  Opportunistic liquor omnivores have a lot more options than liquor specialists. Or buy Calumet.  Let us know which one works out for you.

 

[b1gcountry]

Good advice Garbanzo!

I don't agree with Joe Terp that WR tastes like cough syrup, but I expect he knows what he likes.

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