What bottling do you think has suffered the greatest compromised quality since the boom started?

[Insanityabounds]

Title is kinda self explanatory. Which bottlings do you think have declined in quality the most over the last 5/8 years? 

Edited September 3, 2017 by Insanityabounds

[GaryT]

Honestly, while I've bought more than my fair share of whiskey in the last 5 yrs, I haven't bought any one label several times at intervals to really have any jump out (or had prior bottlings to do a SBS comparison).  Mostly what I've bought lately are private selections.  I did think that the last ORVW10 I bought wasn't quite as nice as the first one, but with only two data points - wouldn't call that a trend.  I thought OFS might have taken a step back, but a lot of the variation is me (one night it seems like a shadow of its former self; a week later it hits on all cylinders and might even be better!)  Curious to hear from folks who buy more volume of a few labels and have more insight.

[starhopper]

Buffalo Trace - seems to taste a lot "greener" than it did  just a few years ago.

Edited September 3, 2017 by starhopper

[kevinbrink]

I will make a broad statement that I haven't enjoyed Sazerac/BT products over the last couple years the way I did a few years ago, but that could as much be palate drift as much as it could be declining quality for some of their products. That being said I think it's safe to say that OC, AA, Benchmark and the like are not even close to being the same as they once were quite literally while their portfolio expands.

[Limegoldconvertible68]

Thankfully I still have enough quality products in the bunker that I haven't had to venture into anything that is rumored to have slipped.

[MOwhisky4me]

In my opinion Evan Williams Single Barrel has suffered the affects of the "boom" substantially. Every year the bourbon is younger and although I feel it's still a quality pour, it's not on the same level that it once was.

[smokinjoe]

12 hours ago, Insanityabounds said:

Title is kinda self explanatory. Which bottlings do you think have declined in quality the most over the last 5/8 years? 

If one were to correlate younger whiskey/dropped age statements/lower proofs with declining quality, the list is seemingly endless.  I can't go there myself, however.  "Quality" means more to me than just those things.  Despite these things happening, I'm hard pressed to note even a few legacy distillery bourbons that have suffered in quality "the most".  Though the whiskey may be different even to tastes, I don't sense much in poorer quality.  But, if there is one that I might have to say that some of the recent bottles seem to not be at the "quality" of earlier years---it would be Four Roses Single Barrel.  I've gotten some rawness, thinness, and some "off" notes inthese latter ones.  There are several other old "predictable" NDP bottles that due to the boom have suffered, namely some of the KBD labels.  

 

[smokinjoe]

1 hour ago, MOwhisky4me said:

In my opinion Evan Williams Single Barrel has suffered the affects of the "boom" substantially. Every year the bourbon is younger and although I feel it's still a quality pour, it's not on the same level that it once was.

Yeah, that would be another.

[NDN98]

For me, it is Elijah Craig Small Batch.  Just doesn't taste as good as it did when it lost it's age statement.  Too me, the NAS tastes less complex and the finish is almost non-existent.

[Saul_cooperstein]

I would also add some of the NDPs

 

michters 10 many years ago vs today...willett rye  (the extended age bottles of around 2007 vs the willett distillate currently offered)

[Saul_cooperstein]

Also Saz18 

[LCWoody]

I would say Wild Turkey had a bad fall about 5 to 6 years ago, but has come back very nice in the past 2 years. As for a single name bourbon, EWSB is a shadow of what it was 3 or 4 years ago.

[The Black Tot]

I think Joe hit it on the head with the fact that the NDPs have been hit the worst, particularly KBD (even though technically they're not an NDP now, their modern reputation is built on sourced whiskeys).

 

The Weller products have clearly thinned out in flavor for now, but I think that will come back when the new inventory matures.

 

It's just mostly all getting less time in the wood these days, and even those products with age statements are now more literal than during the glut, when they were mostly age understatements.

[musekatcher]

1 hour ago, The Black Tot said:

 

 

The Weller products have clearly thinned out in flavor for now, but I think that will come back when the new inventory matures.

 

It's just mostly all getting less time in the wood these days, and even those products with age statements are now more literal than during the glut, when they were mostly age understatements.

I was going to nominate the Weller products.  I'll add OFS.   

 

In addition to less time in the wood , the other compromise might be using more barrels in the blend to increase total product - barrels that otherwise would have been rejected, or bottled as cheaper brands.  Its like picking out apples for a few jars of apple butter - you cull the very best.  If you are making dozens of quarts of apple butter, you drop your standards and accept whatever you have on hand. 

Edited September 4, 2017 by musekatcher

[fishnbowljoe]

1 hour ago, The Black Tot said:

The Weller products have clearly thinned out in flavor for now, but I think that will come back when the new inventory matures.

 

It's just mostly all getting less time in the wood these days, and even those products with age statements are now more literal than during the glut, when they were mostly age understatements.

 

15 minutes ago, musekatcher said:

I was going to nominate the Weller products.  I'll add OFS.   

 

In addition to less time in the wood , the other compromise might be using more barrels in the blend to increase total product - barrels that otherwise would have been rejected, or bottled as cheaper brands.  Its like picking out apples for a few jars of apple butter - you cull the very best.  If you are making dozens of quarts of apple butter, you drop your standards and accept whatever you have on hand. 

 

I believe that the Weller comeback may have already started. I've recently purchased new bottle/label versions of all three. IMHO, even if not by much, I think all the newer bottlings are better than the old. Time will tell I guess. I actually may have some more to add about this pretty soon. I'm getting together with a couple of fellow sbers this coming Saturday, and there's the distinct possibility of a trio of Weller sbs's. 

 

Cheers! Joe

[The Black Tot]

7 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

I believe that the Weller comeback may have already started. I've recently purchased new bottle/label versions of all three. IMHO, even if not by much, I think all the newer bottlings are better than the old. Time will tell I guess. I actually may have some more to add about this pretty soon. I'm getting together with a couple of fellow sbers this coming Saturday, and there's the distinct possibility of a trio of Weller sbs's. 

 

Fingers crossed that you're right, Joe. I can see them having recovered to better than the non-age-stated script logo period, but back to as good as the paper label AS of the early 2000s? That would be cause for celebration indeed!

 

Can't wait to read your conclusions next Saturday. We're Weller whoring vicariously through you!

[Jace]

Noah's Mill. It was my favorite until around the time they changed the wax-top to foil. Haven't been able to find a drinkable bottle since...

[Insanityabounds]

On 9/3/2017 at 2:14 PM, smokinjoe said:

If one were to correlate younger whiskey/dropped age statements/lower proofs with declining quality, the list is seemingly endless.  I can't go there myself, however.  "Quality" means more to me than just those things.  Despite these things happening, I'm hard pressed to note even a few legacy distillery bourbons that have suffered in quality "the most".  Though the whiskey may be different even to tastes, I don't sense much in poorer quality.  But, if there is one that I might have to say that some of the recent bottles seem to not be at the "quality" of earlier years---it would be Four Roses Single Barrel.  I've gotten some rawness, thinness, and some "off" notes inthese latter ones.  There are several other old "predictable" NDP bottles that due to the boom have suffered, namely some of the KBD labels.  

 

I mean the actual quality of the liquid or bottling has declined. If we included age statements we could do this endlessly, as you said! I would agree with your Four Roses SB assessment, the last one I bought was watery and lacking in almost every way, imo..I have been more disappointed in a few if the barrel proof offerings I have had lately though. 

[Insanityabounds]

On 9/3/2017 at 8:57 AM, starhopper said:

Buffalo Trace - seems to taste a lot "greener" than it did  just a few years ago.

I had a few friends say the same but im not a big BT fan so I haven't kept up with it. Interesting that you think so too. 

[Insanityabounds]

On 9/3/2017 at 11:02 AM, Limegoldconvertible68 said:

Thankfully I still have enough quality products in the bunker that I haven't had to venture into anything that is rumored to have slipped.

Good place to be in!

[Insanityabounds]

On 9/3/2017 at 1:59 PM, MOwhisky4me said:

In my opinion Evan Williams Single Barrel has suffered the affects of the "boom" substantially. Every year the bourbon is younger and although I feel it's still a quality pour, it's not on the same level that it once was.

I agree with this. An 06 was the last one I bought. Dont think I will be getting any more of them. Used to be amazing at times too. 

[Insanityabounds]

On 9/3/2017 at 10:21 AM, kevinbrink said:

I will make a broad statement that I haven't enjoyed Sazerac/BT products over the last couple years the way I did a few years ago, but that could as much be palate drift as much as it could be declining quality for some of their products. That being said I think it's safe to say that OC, AA, Benchmark and the like are not even close to being the same as they once were quite literally while their portfolio expands.

I would broadly agree with your broad statement! 

[Insanityabounds]

On 9/3/2017 at 3:30 PM, NDN98 said:

For me, it is Elijah Craig Small Batch.  Just doesn't taste as good as it did when it lost it's age statement.  Too me, the NAS tastes less complex and the finish is almost non-existent.

This is mine too. EC12 was my thing. Loved it. It was what brought me into Bourbon in 06/07. The new bottlings just are not there. The depth and boldness of the EC12 is not really to be found in the NAS bottlings, imo. And that is a shame. I brought many a body into the Bourbon world by getting them hooked on EC12 at 22.99 a bottle. Now the new bottling NAS is 29.99. Nope. Bought one. Never again. 

[Insanityabounds]

21 hours ago, Saul_cooperstein said:

I would also add some of the NDPs

 

michters 10 many years ago vs today...willett rye  (the extended age bottles of around 2007 vs the willett distillate currently offered)

I dont intend to ever buy any Michters bottling. Ill keep my opinions about them to myself though! Willett Rye will/should be great when theirs is about 10/15 years old. Till then Im kinda not interested. 

[Insanityabounds]

11 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

 

 

I believe that the Weller comeback may have already started. I've recently purchased new bottle/label versions of all three. IMHO, even if not by much, I think all the newer bottlings are better than the old. Time will tell I guess. I actually may have some more to add about this pretty soon. I'm getting together with a couple of fellow sbers this coming Saturday, and there's the distinct possibility of a trio of Weller sbs's. 

 

Cheers! Joe

The Weller 107 and SR I had las year was markedly better than bottlings I had in the couple years prior. Have not gotten any new bottlings yet. Doubt Ill get any of any bottling frankly.