El Vino Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Another sign of an overstretched market. When mediocre product sells at 3X a reasonable value and still no one makes money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 It seems to me that this release has really not much to do with the actual whiskey in the bottle (besides that they wanted something with some age on it that didn’t suck), nor is it really intended to give any glimpse into what they will put in the bottle once distilling. And, I don’t think the proprietors care if they make money, or not, on it. This was a rush job to get something released in order to not lose the Cream of Kentucky name. They paid high spot pricing on highly aged bourbon in a sellers market, because the deadline was fast approaching for them to put something out, or lose it. I’ll assume they believe the costs in maintaining the brand for the future will justify the loss now. As a side note, if the info that the costs of the bulk Whiskey was so high that the exorbitant bottle price can’t offset it, it seems that Sazerac didn’t do JR any favors. Yes, the industry has changed from when Pappy gave the recipe and yeast to Maker’s, B-F helped HH after the fire, and all of the stories in bourbon lore of Distiller helping Distiller in this close knit community. Of course, Sazerac could have said GFY... 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Tot Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 hours ago, smokinjoe said: Sazerac could have said GFY... "Good For You, Jim Rutlege! Good For You!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richnimrod Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, The Black Tot said: "Good For You, Jim Rutlege! Good For You!" Hmmm, maybe. ...Or maybe ... not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 6 hours ago, smokinjoe said: It seems to me that this release has really not much to do with the actual whiskey in the bottle (besides that they wanted something with some age on it that didn’t suck), nor is it really intended to give any glimpse into what they will put in the bottle once distilling. And, I don’t think the proprietors care if they make money, or not, on it. This was a rush job to get something released in order to not lose the Cream of Kentucky name. They paid high spot pricing on highly aged bourbon in a sellers market, because the deadline was fast approaching for them to put something out, or lose it. I’ll assume they believe the costs in maintaining the brand for the future will justify the loss now. As a side note, if the info that the costs of the bulk Whiskey was so high that the exorbitant bottle price can’t offset it, it seems that Sazerac didn’t do JR any favors. Yes, the industry has changed from when Pappy gave the recipe and yeast to Maker’s, B-F helped HH after the fire, and all of the stories in bourbon lore of Distiller helping Distiller in this close knit community. Of course, Sazerac could have said GFY... This is correct. There was pressure to get something out to keep that copyright. They will continue to use it going forward as a separate brand from JW Rutledge. They are making a little bit of money on it, but not much. Based on the recent bourbonpursuit podcast with the whiskey broker as the guest who explained how the system works, it sounds to me like they probably went through him or someone similar. (That was a pretty revealing podcast). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinbrink Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, flahute said: This is correct. There was pressure to get something out to keep that copyright. They will continue to use it going forward as a separate brand from JW Rutledge. They are making a little bit of money on it, but not much. Based on the recent bourbonpursuit podcast with the whiskey broker as the guest who explained how the system works, it sounds to me like they probably went through him or someone similar. (That was a pretty revealing podcast). I agree it was one of the more interesting episodes they have done, sometimes they lean a little to far into secondary market stuff and hype for my tastes but they do manage to get some good info and interviews from time to time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Vino Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Have not seen this episode and have zero knowledge of the “system”. Having said that, did Sazerac have a lot they were selling and JR was in the market and bought it? Or, did Sazerac know they were selling to JR, and they sold him what they were willing to let him have for the KofK brand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 42 minutes ago, El Vino said: Have not seen this episode and have zero knowledge of the “system”. Having said that, did Sazerac have a lot they were selling and JR was in the market and bought it? Or, did Sazerac know they were selling to JR, and they sold him what they were willing to let him have for the KofK brand? That we don't know specifically. What we do know is that the major producers are often selling odd lots of stuff to the brokers who then sell to NDP's and other distillers. Direct sales from distilleries to individual entities don't really happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, flahute said: That we don't know specifically. What we do know is that the major producers are often selling odd lots of stuff to the brokers who then sell to NDP's and other distillers. Direct sales from distilleries to individual entities don't really happen. The 4th Tier... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnbowljoe Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, smokinjoe said: The 4th Tier... A 4th Tier? That's all we need. Christ on a bicycle! Piss up a rope! etc... etc... etc.... Biba! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeTerp Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 12 hours ago, El Vino said: Another sign of an overstretched market. When mediocre product sells at 3X a reasonable value and still no one makes money... I think Barton made some money here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Vino Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Well yeah, I kinda skipped over that part, but yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 4 hours ago, smokinjoe said: The 4th Tier... The most expensive one! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlutz Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 11:42 PM, flahute said: The most expensive one! I would have said secondary was the fourth tier AND the most expensive one. Like it or not (not) secondary is prevalent and establishes a value individuals are willing to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Charlutz said: I would have said secondary was the fourth tier AND the most expensive one. Like it or not (not) secondary is prevalent and establishes a value individuals are willing to pay. It's prominent for sure but only for select bottles. There's a lot of NDP bottles out there that don't move on secondary because they start out expensive due to the cost of buying the barrels in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlutz Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 12:16 PM, flahute said: It's prominent for sure but only for select bottles. There's a lot of NDP bottles out there that don't move on secondary because they start out expensive due to the cost of buying the barrels in the first place. Agreed. I should’ve qualified my statement with a ‘for me.’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyjd75 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/14/2019 at 8:44 PM, Bob_Loblaw said: Anyone else try the Cream of Kentucky yet? Spent so much lately and not a big 1792 fan. Has not hit my market yet, but probably soon and I’m Debating whether I even want it with the big price tag. . . My wife gave me a bottle of COK this past weekend as a birthday gift. Initial impression was that it was "ok" but not overwhelmingly outstanding at all. It definitely had a strange funkiness to it, imho. Tried again yesterday and this time added a few drops (5-6) of water. Made a big difference and would recommend anyone who has a bottle try it with a little water if you haven't already. Local price in Elizabethtown is $169 and at that price would not buy another bottle. Happy to support Jim Rutledge in his distillery effort, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Kyjd75 said: My wife gave me a bottle of COK this past weekend as a birthday gift. Initial impression was that it was "ok" but not overwhelmingly outstanding at all. It definitely had a strange funkiness to it, imho. Tried again yesterday and this time added a few drops (5-6) of water. Made a big difference and would recommend anyone who has a bottle try it with a little water if you haven't already. Local price in Elizabethtown is $169 and at that price would not buy another bottle. Happy to support Jim Rutledge in his distillery effort, however. I tried it a few weeks ago and also got that same funk you mention. I did not try water however so good tip. I'm trying it again tonight and will do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptman2000 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I have just started seeing these pop up in my local stores in MD. The one that I went to yesterday had 6 bottles on the shelf going for $169. Probably going to be a pass for me based on what I’m reading here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv2hunt Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 My opinion : Leave it on the shelf for the taters to buy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvd99 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 So . . . anyone tried it yet? My LS has some in, but I'm holding out for now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I have to admit that the only reason I would pick up a bottle would be to simply support JR’s endeavors. And, that’s not a bad thing, IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Loblaw Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 1/28/2019 at 2:08 PM, flahute said: I tried it a few weeks ago and also got that same funk you mention. I did not try water however so good tip. I'm trying it again tonight and will do that. Any follow up on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Loblaw Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, jvd99 said: So . . . anyone tried it yet? My LS has some in, but I'm holding out for now I picked up a bottle, but have offered it to a friend. Delivering Saturday. We swap samples frequently so I expect I will get to try at some point, but no idea if it will be opened Sat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 32 minutes ago, Bob_Loblaw said: Any follow up on this? I tried it again from a different bottle and it was a very different experience. I thought I tasted a slight trace of the funk at first but i was also looking for it. After a little water added, and some time for that to mingle, it tasted pretty darn good. Still hard to justify the price for sure, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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