Super nerdy information about fermentation, sour mashing, and charcoal at Jack Daniel's

[flahute]

If want to know more about how fermentation effects flavor and how and why sour mashing is used, this blog post is for you.

If you've ever wondered exactly how the Lincoln county process works, this blog post is for you.

 

https://www.alcademics.com/2019/04/deeply-nerdy-stuff-about-jack-daniels-production-charcoal-souring-fermentation.html

[Mako254]

Good find flahute. Jack is one I don’t have a ton of experience with. May need to try a barrel proof single barrel one of these days. 

[Richnimrod]

36 minutes ago, Mako254 said:

Good find flahute. Jack is one I don’t have a ton of experience with. May need to try a barrel proof single barrel one of these days. 

DO!   It is IMHO consistently the very best available from Lynchburg TN.   Do yourself a favor and scoop up a bottle, and see for yourself.   Personally, I find it better than a great many Bourbons of similar price.

[Guss West]

The JD SBBP "double barrel" is the only expression from Lynchburg I call a favorite! 

[Bob_Loblaw]

48 minutes ago, Mako254 said:

Good find flahute. Jack is one I don’t have a ton of experience with. May need to try a barrel proof single barrel one of these days. 

Seconded, but there is definite Barrel variation. Tried a SiB pick and really disliked it. Got talked into giving the next Barrel pick a shot as it was “different.” HOLY COW just huge brown sugar bomb and dangerously drinkable. Third one was like the first and just Meh. But that second barrel. Wow. One of the best pours of the year for me.

[BigRich]

Fascinating!

[Richnimrod]

Hmmm.   Getting "into the weeds" like this is so much FUN!    Finding out about the 'other' effect of "charcoal mellowing" on the distillate was a revelation for me!    I love this kind of minutia!    Thanx so much for posting it, Steve!

[0895]

13 hours ago, Mako254 said:

Good find flahute. Jack is one I don’t have a ton of experience with. May need to try a barrel proof single barrel one of these days. 

 

I definitely recommend the barrel proof.  Nobody ever believes it's JD when I pour it for them blind.

Also the heritage barrel single barrel,  if you can still find it, although the pricing on it is stupid, even at msrp ($65 ish).

[TwoFingers]

Just shows that there is alot more science in whiskey making than some might think.  It ain't just setting up a still in the backwoods.  Things might have started there but get those chemical engineers in there and things aren't quite the same.  No offense to those working in the backwoods.

 

Might have to find some of that JD barrel proof.

 

 

[smokinjoe]

Regarding LCP, if the author has correctly relayed the information and not added his own ideas in that segment, I would say the  following parts would be hefty ammunition against Daniel’s consideration as a “bourbon”.  If the whiskey is extracting “things” from the charcoal (maple and not oak, and not “activated charcoal”), that might run counter to the regs for bourbon.  

 

Running the newly-distilled spirit through charcoal is not a purely subtractive process, which is what I thought until today.

Sugar Maple trees are used to make the charcoal because it's an abundant but not terribly useful wood generally, and it doesn't impart much flavor. The wood is burned and then the fire put out. The larger pieces of charcoal are broken up and filled into vats. 

The charcoal production does not make activated charcoal. However the charcoal does do some adsorptive filtration of the whiskey to remove certain components. 

The additive quality of the charcoal is that minerals in the charcoal are extracted by the whiskey. The whiskey comes off the still at around 5.5 pH, and after charcoal filtration it goes up to a pH of 7.5 -  8.0! 

[flahute]

2 hours ago, TwoFingers said:

Just shows that there is alot more science in whiskey making than some might think.  It ain't just setting up a still in the backwoods.  Things might have started there but get those chemical engineers in there and things aren't quite the same.  No offense to those working in the backwoods.

 

Might have to find some of that JD barrel proof.

 

 

Exactly right and this is why so much craft whiskey falls short. It takes a lot of time and trial and error to figure this stuff out.

[flahute]

2 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

Regarding LCP, if the author has correctly relayed the information and not added his own ideas in that segment, I would say the  following parts would be hefty ammunition against Daniel’s consideration as a “bourbon”.  If the whiskey is extracting “things” from the charcoal (maple and not oak, and not “activated charcoal”), that might run counter to the regs for bourbon.  

 

Running the newly-distilled spirit through charcoal is not a purely subtractive process, which is what I thought until today.

Sugar Maple trees are used to make the charcoal because it's an abundant but not terribly useful wood generally, and it doesn't impart much flavor. The wood is burned and then the fire put out. The larger pieces of charcoal are broken up and filled into vats. 

The charcoal production does not make activated charcoal. However the charcoal does do some adsorptive filtration of the whiskey to remove certain components. 

The additive quality of the charcoal is that minerals in the charcoal are extracted by the whiskey. The whiskey comes off the still at around 5.5 pH, and after charcoal filtration it goes up to a pH of 7.5 -  8.0! 

Indeed I had the same thought when reading this yesterday.

[Old Hippie]

On 4/20/2019 at 10:48 AM, smokinjoe said:

Regarding LCP, if the author has correctly relayed the information and not added his own ideas in that segment, I would say the  following parts would be hefty ammunition against Daniel’s consideration as a “bourbon”.  If the whiskey is extracting “things” from the charcoal (maple and not oak, and not “activated charcoal”), that might run counter to the regs for bourbon.  

 

Running the newly-distilled spirit through charcoal is not a purely subtractive process, which is what I thought until today.

Sugar Maple trees are used to make the charcoal because it's an abundant but not terribly useful wood generally, and it doesn't impart much flavor. The wood is burned and then the fire put out. The larger pieces of charcoal are broken up and filled into vats. 

The charcoal production does not make activated charcoal. However the charcoal does do some adsorptive filtration of the whiskey to remove certain components. 

The additive quality of the charcoal is that minerals in the charcoal are extracted by the whiskey. The whiskey comes off the still at around 5.5 pH, and after charcoal filtration it goes up to a pH of 7.5 -  8.0! 

However most Bourbons are filtered through Charcoal before bottling and they are still bourbons. 

It is my understanding that in the early 2000's JD petitioned the TTB to get a Tennessee Whiskey designation that mandates the Lincoln County Process. The TTB denied this request and told them to just call it bourbon since it satisfies all the parameters. They then petitioned the state of Tennessee for the same and the state did add the Lincoln County Process to the mandates for bourbon to classify it as a Tennessee Whiskey. The exception of Benjamin Pritchard was grandfathered in to call itself a Tennessee Whiskey without the process.

The bottom line is this debate will continue, however Jack is enjoying much success marketing itself as a Tennessee whiskey so I don't think they will worry about it a whole hell of a lot. 

[smokinjoe]

5 minutes ago, Old Hippie said:

However most Bourbons are filtered through Charcoal before bottling and they are still bourbons. 

It is my understanding that in the early 2000's JD petitioned the TTB to get a Tennessee Whiskey designation that mandates the Lincoln County Process. The TTB denied this request and told them to just call it bourbon since it satisfies all the parameters. They then petitioned the state of Tennessee for the same and the state did add the Lincoln County Process to the mandates for bourbon to classify it as a Tennessee Whiskey. The exception of Benjamin Pritchard was grandfathered in to call itself a Tennessee Whiskey without the process.

The bottom line is this debate will continue, however Jack is enjoying much success marketing itself as a Tennessee whiskey so I don't think they will worry about it a whole hell of a lot. 

The charcoal filtering of Kentucky Distilleries throwing in handfuls of powdered “activated charcoal” during primarily the chill filtering step differs from the drip/vat filtering of standard charcoal used in the LCP (if I understand both correctly).    AC is entirely substractive, while the LCP is additive to a degree due to the specific methods used in producing both (if the info is correct, but I have heard similar info from other sources).  

 

 

[Old Hippie]

1 hour ago, smokinjoe said:

The charcoal filtering of Kentucky Distilleries throwing in handfuls of powdered “activated charcoal” during primarily the chill filtering step differs from the drip/vat filtering of standard charcoal used in the LCP (if I understand both correctly).    AC is entirely substractive, while the LCP is additive to a degree due to the specific methods used in producing both (if the info is correct, but I have heard similar info from other sources).  

 

 

I agree with you smokinjoe and you are technically correct. I am going what was told to me by master distiller Jeff Arnett for what it's worth.  At the end of the day not sure that it matters much other than to some of us whiskey nerds. 

Cheers

[smokinjoe]

Being a sales guy, of plastic no less, nobody has ever said I’m technically correct on anything...Usually it’s:  You’re so full of Sh**!...