Bourbon Carbs and Sugar

[Carnagusfarnbuckler]

Can someone please explain how bourbon has no carbs or sugar but still tastes sweet?  I have been on a low carb Keto diet for about 10 months and really enjoy having bourbon but always wonder how it can taste sweet but have no carbs or sugar. thanks

[EarthQuake]

It's complicated.

 

Firstly, sugar is necessary for alcohol to ferment. So all whiskey starts with some amount of sugar. That sugar is converted to alcohol by way of yeast, and is then distilled to increase the proof. The distillation process removes any residual sugar so that you're left with alcohol and water. So, technically, whiskey off the still is sugar/carb/fat free.

 

As far as Straight Bourbon goes (or rye, or many other types of unadulterated whiskey), some of the flavor comes from the original distillate, but the majority of it comes from the barrel. Generally speaking, the longer it sits in the barrel, the more the flavor is determined by the barrel itself. Whiskey extracts all sorts of chemicals from the barrel like tannins which give it dry flavors, and vanillin which gives it a sweet, vanilla flavor. There's some stuff to do with wood sugars here, but I'm not sure if enough wood sugar is extracted to result in a significant portion of sugar ending up in the final product. I expect not, but I don't understand the chemical reactions well enough to say for sure.

 

Other products, some Rums and Cognacs especially, have sugar added to them after the fact. Flavored whiskey or any sort of liqueur is very likely to have added sugar as well. So keep that in mind.

 

Now, back to diets and such. So, no sugar, you're good, right? Not so fast. Alcohol is pure calories, and your body is more efficient at converting alcohol to fat than it is sugar. So while alcohol is sugar and fat free, that does not mean it is a good choice if you're on a diet. In fact, if you're trying to lose weight, drinking alcohol in any form is typically a bad choice.

 

That said, straight spirits like Bourbon tend to be the best (least caloric) source of alcohol if you plan to drink, due to the minimal amount of calories per serving. Wine is pretty good too. Beer and mixed drinks (because they often include soda, syrup, etc) tend to be the worst.

Edited April 30, 2019 by EarthQuake

[mross]

I'll take a shot at this. I'm sure if I'm wrong someone will correct me or if I'm right elaborate a bit more.  It has to do with the distillation process and barrel aging. Just like when you see a flavor profile for a bourbon that goes something like this; raisin, chocolate , cotton candy cinnamon clove etc.. Those things are not in there but the chemicals that make you taste them result from the oak aging.

[squire]

New make whisky is as sugar free as vodka but the aging barrel contributes natural vanillins (vanilla) and trace amounts of oak wood sugars, the combination of which gives Bourbon it's sense of sweetness.  The longer it's aged the more intense these flavors.  Whisky aged or finished in Port or Sherry barrels will also pick up sweetness from the residual of those sweet wines.

[Richnimrod]

Here's a quick question for anybody to think about, and for somebody smarter than me to answer....

Alcohol (ethanol) is a big molecule made up of Hydrogen, Oxygen, and CARBON atoms, right? 

So with that in mind...

Why isn't alcohol a carbohydrate?    I mean, carbohydrates are molecules with the same atoms in 'em, no?    ...Just arranged, and I imagine bonded, differently.

Anybody????

[squire]

Oh, alcohol is a good deal more than the sum of it's parts.

[Don Birnam]

2 hours ago, Richnimrod said:

Here's a quick question for anybody to think about, and for somebody smarter than me to answer....

Alcohol (ethanol) is a big molecule made up of Hydrogen, Oxygen, and CARBON atoms, right? 

So with that in mind...

Why isn't alcohol a carbohydrate?    I mean, carbohydrates are molecules with the same atoms in 'em, no?    ...Just arranged, and I imagine bonded, differently.

Anybody????

Carbohydrates have twice the hydrogen atoms as oxygen, glucose is C₆H₁₂O₆, sucrose is C₁₂H₂₂O₁₁, a basic starch formula is (C₆H₁₀O₅)_n.

Alcohols may have the same atoms (carbon, hydrogen and oxygen) but they don't have 2:1 hydrogen to oxygen ratio, ethanol is C₂H₆O. Six times the hydrogen as oxygen atoms.

Sucrose is a disaccharide simply put, two monosaccharides (glucose) and a squeezed out water molecule (C₁₂H₂₄O₁₂ - H₂O leaving 12 carbon, 22 hydrogen and 11 oxygen atoms)

[Carnagusfarnbuckler]

So, from what I am reading here, the sweetness in bourbon is really not sugar but chemicals from the aging process....correct?

 

[squire]

Chemicals, yes, but more like flavorings that our taste buds interpret as sweet.

[Carnagusfarnbuckler]

18 minutes ago, squire said:

Chemicals, yes, but more like flavorings that our taste buds interpret as sweet.

Thanks Squire!

[flahute]

1 hour ago, Carnagusfarnbuckler said:

So, from what I am reading here, the sweetness in bourbon is really not sugar but chemicals from the aging process....correct?

 

The same chemical compound in the vanilla bean that gives it its flavor is also present in oak, so yes. That's one of many examples.

[Jfletchgu]

1 hour ago, Carnagusfarnbuckler said:

Thanks Squire!

I would like to take a moment to welcome back SB legend Squire after an over 2 year hiatus from posting. I read so many old posts with your contribution and had missed your insight. Anyways good to see you back.

[squire]

46 minutes ago, Jfletchgu said:

I would like to take a moment to welcome back SB legend Squire after an over 2 year hiatus from posting. I read so many old posts with your contribution and had missed your insight. Anyways good to see you back.

Thanks for the kind words, it's good to be back.  

[mross]

If you want a more through explanation I recommend; "Tasting Whiskey" by Lew Bryson. He gets into all this with the names of the "flavorings" that cause the sensation. 

[pyro273]

19 hours ago, Don Birnam said:

Carbohydrates have twice the hydrogen atoms as oxygen, glucose is C₆H₁₂O₆, sucrose is C₁₂H₂₂O₁₁, a basic starch formula is (C₆H₁₀O₅)_n.

Alcohols may have the same atoms (carbon, hydrogen and oxygen) but they don't have 2:1 hydrogen to oxygen ratio, ethanol is C₂H₆O. Six times the hydrogen as oxygen atoms.

Sucrose is a disaccharide simply put, two monosaccharides (glucose) and a squeezed out water molecule (C₁₂H₂₄O₁₂ - H₂O leaving 12 carbon, 22 hydrogen and 11 oxygen atoms)

Whoa, I just had a flashback to my organic chemistry class....fun times....

[graftonbc1]

22 hours ago, EarthQuake said:

It's complicated.

 

Firstly, sugar is necessary for alcohol to ferment. So all whiskey starts with some amount of sugar. That sugar is converted to alcohol by way of yeast, and is then distilled to increase the proof. The distillation process removes any residual sugar so that you're left with alcohol and water. So, technically, whiskey off the still is sugar/carb/fat free.

 

As far as Straight Bourbon goes (or rye, or many other types of unadulterated whiskey), some of the flavor comes from the original distillate, but the majority of it comes from the barrel. Generally speaking, the longer it sits in the barrel, the more the flavor is determined by the barrel itself. Whiskey extracts all sorts of chemicals from the barrel like tannins which give it dry flavors, and vanillin which gives it a sweet, vanilla flavor. There's some stuff to do with wood sugars here, but I'm not sure if enough wood sugar is extracted to result in a significant portion of sugar ending up in the final product. I expect not, but I don't understand the chemical reactions well enough to say for sure.

 

Other products, some Rums and Cognacs especially, have sugar added to them after the fact. Flavored whiskey or any sort of liqueur is very likely to have added sugar as well. So keep that in mind.

 

Now, back to diets and such. So, no sugar, you're good, right? Not so fast. Alcohol is pure calories, and your body is more efficient at converting alcohol to fat than it is sugar. So while alcohol is sugar and fat free, that does not mean it is a good choice if you're on a diet. In fact, if you're trying to lose weight, drinking alcohol in any form is typically a bad choice.

 

That said, straight spirits like Bourbon tend to be the best (least caloric) source of alcohol if you plan to drink, due to the minimal amount of calories per serving. Wine is pretty good too. Beer and mixed drinks (because they often include soda, syrup, etc) tend to be the worst.

Actually, your body does not convert alcohol into fat, at least not readily, and only in a situation of excessive calorie overload. However, because your body your sees alcohol as a toxin, the liver processes alcohol as a priority over carbs, fats, and proteins. Since alcohol is empty as far as calories go, it just burns off as energy. Because the body stops processing the other nutrients, and the alcohol takes care of energy needs, the body will convert and store the excess. This is why any alcohol is a no-no if you are doing keto. 

[flahute]

2 hours ago, graftonbc1 said:

This is why any alcohol is a no-no if you are doing keto. 

My understanding is that keto proponents are split on this. Distilled spirits with no sugar added are OK, Wine is sort of OK as long as the carbs stay below your daily limit. If you hit a plateau in weight loss, then cut the alcohol to get going again.

I've been doing keto since January and have lost 21 lbs while still having my daily bourbon. (you gotta have something to look forward to!) I would probably have lost more without the bourbon, but I'm happy to have this progress while still having one thing that feels like a cheat.

[Carnagusfarnbuckler]

1 hour ago, flahute said:

My understanding is that keto proponents are split on this. Distilled spirits with no sugar added are OK, Wine is sort of OK as long as the carbs stay below your daily limit. If you hit a plateau in weight loss, then cut the alcohol to get going again.

I've been doing keto since January and have lost 21 lbs while still having my daily bourbon. (you gotta have something to look forward to!) I would probably have lost more without the bourbon, but I'm happy to have this progress while still having one thing that feels like a cheat.

I have been on Keto for 10 months.  I started at 255 and hit my goal about 2 months ago of 185.  I only partake in the brown water on the weekends.  I will say that on a two nights of drinking I will typically gain about 2 to 2 1/2 pounds.  I can get this off in about 3 days.  Like flahute said, it is what I look forward to. 

[graftonbc1]

2 hours ago, flahute said:

My understanding is that keto proponents are split on this. Distilled spirits with no sugar added are OK, Wine is sort of OK as long as the carbs stay below your daily limit. If you hit a plateau in weight loss, then cut the alcohol to get going again.

I've been doing keto since January and have lost 21 lbs while still having my daily bourbon. (you gotta have something to look forward to!) I would probably have lost more without the bourbon, but I'm happy to have this progress while still having one thing that feels like a cheat.

I’m a bodybuilder in the senior division. And like you guys, I enjoy my bourbon and account for it. Congrats to you and the other fellow for your successes. Keto is interesting in that the ketone bodies are formed in the liver. If the liver has to process alcohol, it will stop making ketone bodies. Depending upon how deep in ketosis you are will determine your recovery rate. Since your body will not let your brain starve, and you have neither enough ketones or glucagen, your body has to get energy from some where.  Generally it will put you in a state of gluconeogenesis, which means it will catabolism lean tissue and convert it into glucose. This is what cause muscle loss when dieting. A good trick on keto, if you are going to imhibe is to make sure you nailed your daily fat requirements and perhaps a little more. 

[flahute]

1 hour ago, graftonbc1 said:

I’m a bodybuilder in the senior division. And like you guys, I enjoy my bourbon and account for it. Congrats to you and the other fellow for your successes. Keto is interesting in that the ketone bodies are formed in the liver. If the liver has to process alcohol, it will stop making ketone bodies. Depending upon how deep in ketosis you are will determine your recovery rate. Since your body will not let your brain starve, and you have neither enough ketones or glucagen, your body has to get energy from some where.  Generally it will put you in a state of gluconeogenesis, which means it will catabolism lean tissue and convert it into glucose. This is what cause muscle loss when dieting. A good trick on keto, if you are going to imhibe is to make sure you nailed your daily fat requirements and perhaps a little more. 

I have found that pork rinds go great with bourbon.

[Carnagusfarnbuckler]

2 hours ago, graftonbc1 said:

I’m a bodybuilder in the senior division. And like you guys, I enjoy my bourbon and account for it. Congrats to you and the other fellow for your successes. Keto is interesting in that the ketone bodies are formed in the liver. If the liver has to process alcohol, it will stop making ketone bodies. Depending upon how deep in ketosis you are will determine your recovery rate. Since your body will not let your brain starve, and you have neither enough ketones or glucagen, your body has to get energy from some where.  Generally it will put you in a state of gluconeogenesis, which means it will catabolism lean tissue and convert it into glucose. This is what cause muscle loss when dieting. A good trick on keto, if you are going to imhibe is to make sure you nailed your daily fat requirements and perhaps a little more. 

Sounds like great advice.

[EarthQuake]

8 hours ago, graftonbc1 said:

Actually, your body does not convert alcohol into fat, at least not readily, and only in a situation of excessive calorie overload. However, because your body your sees alcohol as a toxin, the liver processes alcohol as a priority over carbs, fats, and proteins. Since alcohol is empty as far as calories go, it just burns off as energy. Because the body stops processing the other nutrients, and the alcohol takes care of energy needs, the body will convert and store the excess. This is why any alcohol is a no-no if you are doing keto. 

Yeah I did a bit more reading after my original post. As you mention, alcohol burns off first so your body isn't burning fat, which may be problematic if weight loss is the goal.

[flahute]

3 hours ago, graftonbc1 said:

I’m a bodybuilder in the senior division. And like you guys, I enjoy my bourbon and account for it. Congrats to you and the other fellow for your successes. Keto is interesting in that the ketone bodies are formed in the liver. If the liver has to process alcohol, it will stop making ketone bodies. Depending upon how deep in ketosis you are will determine your recovery rate. Since your body will not let your brain starve, and you have neither enough ketones or glucagen, your body has to get energy from some where.  Generally it will put you in a state of gluconeogenesis, which means it will catabolism lean tissue and convert it into glucose. This is what cause muscle loss when dieting. A good trick on keto, if you are going to imhibe is to make sure you nailed your daily fat requirements and perhaps a little more. 

Also, thank you for this. This is great information.

Luckily, I've been able to add muscle during this time from swimming. 

[lcpfratn]

Also, thank you for this. This is great information.
Luckily, I've been able to add muscle during this time from swimming. 

What happened to all the bike riding?

[flahute]

2 hours ago, lcpfratn said:

What happened to all the bike riding?

Good memory!

I still ride my bike! But, I don't have the time that I used to for those 5 hour rides and multiple rides per week. Too much responsibility at work now.

What's even harder are those long bike rides during the Seattle winter when it's 40 degrees and raining. I used to power through. As I've gotten older, I've gotten really tired of being cold and wet and exposed for 3+ hours.

Enter swimming. I'm wet, but not cold! And I get a killer workout in just 1 hour. I have a coach who is an Olympic silver medalist from the Beijing Olympics so my pain is legit. She works me hard. 

Then I come home and have a bourbon and it's all good! Get healthier, add muscle, lose weight, all while drinking bourbon! That's a damn good deal.