Store Barrel Selects

[fishnbowljoe]

2 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

I think you’re implying that Distilleries might unload an off flavored barrel to an unsuspecting liquor store who asks them to pick a selection for them.  I find this extremely unlikely.  There are a number of potential reasons why you did not like that particular barrel, but BT selecting a substandard barrel and having it bottled and put into the marketplace in such a manner as a PS is counterproductive in both the short and long terms.  I can’t see any legacy distillery committing such a pre-meditated blunder.  

My bad if it seemed that I implied BT purposely picked a stinker barrel to send to a customer. That’s not exactly what I meant. My guess, and yes this is just a guess mind you, is that there was a barrel tasting/pick of ER at the distillery, and one of the barrels not selected by the customer there that day was picked to send to the store mentioned in my post above. 

[fishnbowljoe]

2 hours ago, HoustonNit said:

 

How many years ago was this?

 

This was 9 or 10 years ago. I won’t name the store, but I will say it was out of state and bit of a drive from where I live. 

[Richnimrod]

4 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

I think you’re implying that Distilleries might unload an off flavored barrel to an unsuspecting liquor store who asks them to pick a selection for them.  I find this extremely unlikely.  There are a number of potential reasons why you did not like that particular barrel, but BT selecting a substandard barrel and having it bottled and put into the marketplace in such a manner as a PS is counterproductive in both the short and long terms.  I can’t see any legacy distillery committing such a pre-meditated blunder.  

I wonder if fishnbowljoe was actually saying he believed it to have been a purposeful act on the part of the folx at BT?   

I know from personal experience that PS bottlings picked by either the distillery (likely) (or the distributor, maybe not likely?) are not necessarily wonderful selections. 

In fact they can be downright substandard, though these may indeed just be due to lack of 'quality control' in the process of picking barrels to sample, before the samples ever arrive for selection by the store, rather than off-loading of a bad barrel on purpose. 

Of course even store selections can be less than stellar as well.....

When a few friends and acquaintances (along with the owner) gathered to pick a barrel for my local retailer a few months ago, we had in front of us only 3-samples of Blanton's (proofed down to bottle-proof).    Every one of those samples were downright poor, and not just compared to the usual profile of Blanton's ... these all were bad, even if we were choosing a barrel for some bottom shelf dreck.   The owner wanted to go ahead and pick one anyway, even though everybody agreed none were even a little bit good.    His reasoning was that being Blanton's, he could easily sell it all off within a couple weex.     By this time Blanton's had become so hard to find his reasoning was likely correct from a strict sale-ability perspective.    I'm not saying these were intentionally lousy samples; but the fact is they all were lousy, however they came to be in front of us.    Ultimately, we all prevailed upon him to refuse all of them and ask for 3-new samples.    Though he was afraid of offending BT, or the distributor, he did just that.   A few weex passed, and 3-new samples arrived.   All were at least good, and 2-of the 3-were better than average.   Draw your own conclusions from that story.

[HoustonNit]

I could potentially see BT of all the distilleries forcing bad product on there customers. They are constrained and know a store will likely not turn a Blanton’s barrel even a bad one. BT seems to have the most difficult program to work with for barrel picks. That being said why not just put bad barrels into regular production why offer them as barrel picks and potentially hurt there rep? I feel it’s even less likely they’d do this 10 years ago with ER. To me it seems that BT isn’t really doing any kind QC on barrel selection for barrel picks and this how one could get potentially three bad barrels to pick from.

[mbroo5880i]

It seemed like several years ago store barrel selections often offered value both in price and potential something a little better than the standard offering.  Now, it seems like a lot of stores charge more for a barrel selection and the differentiation from the standard offering is negligible.  I don't might a slight premium if I know the individuals involved in the selection process and I know they actually went the distillery to make the selection.  

 

I know of some instances in the past where several barrels were made available to a store for selection at the distillery (they were purchasing more than one barrel) with some of the non-selected barrels ending up at another competitor either through selection at the distillery or samples sent to the store.  I am not certain once barrels are designated for private selections they are returned to the general bottling program.   Others on this site have more experience with store selections and may be able to offer more insight.

 

In fact, outside of Binny's, I tend to favor store selections from local Indy chains or smaller stores with whom I am familiar with the individuals involved in the selection process.  

[mbroo5880i]

On 5/26/2019 at 5:20 PM, Phil T said:

I was in a liquor store in Traverse City MI this past week. They had a SB of Buffalo Trace. I could not taste it before purchasing.  I had high expectations. I'm pretty sure regular Buffalo Trace is a better pour. Needless to say, I didn't bring any extras home.

 

I was just in Petoskey and Traverse City this weekend.  The liquor stores in that area tend tend to be far and few between compared to other states and when you do find one, selection and state minimum pricing are disappointing.  

[alcoholica]

21 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

I think you’re implying that Distilleries might unload an off flavored barrel to an unsuspecting liquor store who asks them to pick a selection for them.  I find this extremely unlikely.  There are a number of potential reasons why you did not like that particular barrel, but BT selecting a substandard barrel and having it bottled and put into the marketplace in such a manner as a PS is counterproductive in both the short and long terms.  I can’t see any legacy distillery committing such a pre-meditated blunder.  

I forget if it was a YouTube channel or a podcast, but this is exactly what was stated. They asked what happened to the barrels that no one picked, and the distillery said they were shipped out to stores that wanted barrel selections w/o picking the barrel themselves. Not that these were horrible barrels, they were at least selected for buyers to sample, so someone that they were worthy of a chance. 

 

Now it was a comment made by someone at the barrel selection, not an interview with someone from the distillery. So it's hearsay, but I don't discount the statement really. Now dumping crap barrels no, but dumping selected barrels that didn't sell through private barrel selections, I can see that.

[Richnimrod]

8 minutes ago, alcoholica said:

Not that these were horrible barrels, they were at least selected for buyers to sample, so someone (thought?) that they were worthy of a chance. 

 

NOTE: I added this: (thought?) to your post, to make the meaning clearer.     I hope this is what you were intending, alcoholica.... 

 

I am not certain that we can assume much planned or 'curated' pre-selection goes on in barrel pick preparation, even 'at the distillery'.    More than once I've seen barrels marked with the same distillation date, same warehouse, same-floor, even same-rick; laid out for selection by groups.   My common sense tells me that they had all been drawn from that location for convenience, ease of access, and simplicity of movement to the area for these exercises.    I could be wrong, of course; but, I can't imagine another reason for landing upon barrels all from a 'single' location among all those warehouses, floors and ricks that are available for this process.   

Thoughts, anyone?  

[HoustonNit]

Rich I would hope you keep seeing barrels from the same spot in the rickhouse because that’s considered one of the better spots for aging and not because of ease of access. If they where selecting barrels for ease of access I would thing it’s less likely they’d go to the exact same spot every time.

[Richnimrod]

9 minutes ago, HoustonNit said:

Rich I would hope you keep seeing barrels from the same spot in the rickhouse because that’s considered one of the better spots for aging and not because of ease of access. If they where selecting barrels for ease of access I would thing it’s less likely they’d go to the exact same spot every time.

Not the exact same spot every time, HN.   

Just same spot for this pick, then different spot for the next one; but still having all that coincidental 'sameness' in common with each other within a selection option, not necessarily with previous pick exercises.

[kcgumbohead]

6 hours ago, Richnimrod said:

Not the exact same spot every time, HN.   

Just same spot for this pick, then different spot for the next one; but still having all that coincidental 'sameness' in common with each other within a selection option, not necessarily with previous pick exercises.

And we have been at distillery barrel picks where one taste makes you wonder HTF did this one make it into the line-up?  Just because a barrel is presented for selection does not mean it has been "pre QC'd" to be worthy of such consideration, it could have just been a neighbor of a really good barrel and got scooped up as part of a lot, in other words Rich, what you said LOL!!

Now if that barrel was then not picked on site by however many groups had it as part of there selection pool, it could find its way to a store which could result in what several might consider a sub par barrel finding its way to a store as a "pick".

Buyer beware, especially these days. If you didn't pick it or trust who did, you are rolling the dice, not intentional dumping of runts but more luck of the draw.

[berto]

Some BevMo picks are made by ownership and friends or high value customers.  Some are made by distro reps who may or may not know what they're doing.  TRhe rep I know is an educated guy who knows what he's doing.  Can't speak for any others doing picks.

[GaryT]

Looking at a OF private barrel aged on the first floor . . . I'd definitely be keen to try it first if that is an option.  Most of those OFSBs are pulled from higher floors; and given the age (tend to be 4-5 yrs old typically), I'd be skeptical of what you get from a first floor barrel.  But different strokes for different folks, right?

[fishnbowljoe]

I’d like to relate another story on this subject.

 

I purchased a private selection bottle from a liquor store. I liked it well enough that the next time I was in the area, I stopped in to grab another one. The manger happened to be at the counter when I went to check out. He asked my thoughts on the bottle, and I told him I thought it was pretty good, and that’s why I came back to buy another bottle. He had a puzzled look on his face and said “Really?” I asked him what was up. He then told me that he was pretty sure that the distillery sent them the wrong barrel. He told me to follow him to the “back room”.  This store archives all the samples and bottles from all of their private picks. We did a sbs of the sample they picked from, and a bottle from said pick. As expected, the pour from the bottle was pretty good. The pour from the sample was absolutely wonderful. I had to agree with him. I too thought the distillery bottled the wrong barrel. FWIW, I bought the bottle anyway.  It was still a pretty good ‘un.  

 

Biba! Joe

[Richnimrod]

^^^^ Ya' just never know WTH you're gonna get, eh^^^^   ... (To paraphrase Good Ole Forest.)

[Shizzy]

18 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

I’d like to relate another story on this subject.

 

I purchased a private selection bottle from a liquor store. I liked it well enough that the next time I was in the area, I stopped in to grab another one. The manger happened to be at the counter when I went to check out. He asked my thoughts on the bottle, and I told him I thought it was pretty good, and that’s why I came back to buy another bottle. He had a puzzled look on his face and said “Really?” I asked him what was up. He then told me that he was pretty sure that the distillery sent them the wrong barrel. He told me to follow him to the “back room”.  This store archives all the samples and bottles from all of their private picks. We did a sbs of the sample they picked from, and a bottle from said pick. As expected, the pour from the bottle was pretty good. The pour from the sample was absolutely wonderful. I had to agree with him. I too thought the distillery bottled the wrong barrel. FWIW, I bought the bottle anyway.  It was still a pretty good ‘un.  

 

Biba! Joe

Is it possible that when bottled it was proofed down?

[flahute]

3 hours ago, Shizzy said:

Is it possible that when bottled it was proofed down?

Yes and no.

Unless it's specifically a barrel proof bourbon, such as a Four Roses Private Selection or a few others, they basically all get watered down.

In Joe's case above, it would not be a consideration.

[Old Hippie]

I'm with a BF wholesaler in SC. For OF we get allocated 6 barrels a year. I conduct all the picks locally or go with the customer when they do distillery picks. When done locally we get three 100ml samples at barrel proof. Typically I have the customer taste all neat, then repeat with a drop or two of water. Once they select their choice I help them proof it down closer to bottle proof and try them again. As far as the samples we receive, I have never had one I was disappointed in. Also they generally offer 3 distinctly different taste profiles, and yes the location of the barrel in the warehouse varies. At OF they heat cycle their warehouses so there is a little less delineation from floor to floor. When picking at the distillery they will have 5 barrels set out. They customer is asked to choose three then those are drilled for samples. 

As far as what happens to the whiskey that is not chosen, that barrel either stays in the SB pick rotation or goes back into the general population of barrels. As barrels age it is not predetermined as the the expression it ends up in (with the exception of Birthday Bourbon). They do, however have a pretty good idea of the cherry locations. I cannot fathom any reputable distiller pulling a crap barrel for the SB selection. What would be the point? It is easy to hide the lesser barrels in 200 barrel batches that go into making their every day offerings. 

[FacePlant]

36 minutes ago, Old Hippie said:

I'm with a BF wholesaler in SC. For OF we get allocated 6 barrels a year. I conduct all the picks locally or go with the customer when they do distillery picks. When done locally we get three 100ml samples at barrel proof. Typically I have the customer taste all neat, then repeat with a drop or two of water. Once they select their choice I help them proof it down closer to bottle proof and try them again. As far as the samples we receive, I have never had one I was disappointed in. Also they generally offer 3 distinctly different taste profiles, and yes the location of the barrel in the warehouse varies. At OF they heat cycle their warehouses so there is a little less delineation from floor to floor. When picking at the distillery they will have 5 barrels set out. They customer is asked to choose three then those are drilled for samples. 

As far as what happens to the whiskey that is not chosen, that barrel either stays in the SB pick rotation or goes back into the general population of barrels. As barrels age it is not predetermined as the the expression it ends up in (with the exception of Birthday Bourbon). They do, however have a pretty good idea of the cherry locations. I cannot fathom any reputable distiller pulling a crap barrel for the SB selection. What would be the point? It is easy to hide the lesser barrels in 200 barrel batches that go into making their every day offerings. 

What choices are given to Michters? Are their barrels separated at birth with their own mash bill?  

[flahute]

1 hour ago, FacePlant said:

What choices are given to Michters? Are their barrels separated at birth with their own mash bill?  

Their barrels are separate and have Michter's stamps on them.

[Old Hippie]

1 hour ago, FacePlant said:

What choices are given to Michters? Are their barrels separated at birth with their own mash bill?  

I do believe Michters has had their own mash bill and proof requirements done for them in the past. Of course they are now doing all their own distilling but I do not think that whiskey is in the bottle yet

[Mako254]

3 hours ago, Old Hippie said:

I'm with a BF wholesaler in SC. For OF we get allocated 6 barrels a year. I conduct all the picks locally or go with the customer when they do distillery picks. When done locally we get three 100ml samples at barrel proof. Typically I have the customer taste all neat, then repeat with a drop or two of water. Once they select their choice I help them proof it down closer to bottle proof and try them again. As far as the samples we receive, I have never had one I was disappointed in. Also they generally offer 3 distinctly different taste profiles, and yes the location of the barrel in the warehouse varies. At OF they heat cycle their warehouses so there is a little less delineation from floor to floor. When picking at the distillery they will have 5 barrels set out. They customer is asked to choose three then those are drilled for samples. 

As far as what happens to the whiskey that is not chosen, that barrel either stays in the SB pick rotation or goes back into the general population of barrels. As barrels age it is not predetermined as the the expression it ends up in (with the exception of Birthday Bourbon). They do, however have a pretty good idea of the cherry locations. I cannot fathom any reputable distiller pulling a crap barrel for the SB selection. What would be the point? It is easy to hide the lesser barrels in 200 barrel batches that go into making their every day offerings. 

 Are you aware of any changes coming to the OF barrel program?

 

I really enjoy sig at 100 proof for $23 and 1920 is very consistent and a pour I enjoy. I think $55ish is a fair price. 

 

OF single barrel is kind of odd man out for me. Less proof than sig and almost double the price. If I am going to be over $50 OTD then I go with 1920. 

Higher proof or the option to select ‘whiskey row’ style barrels would lead to me buying more OF. 

[FacePlant]

12 hours ago, flahute said:

Their barrels are separate and have Michter's stamps on them.

 

[PaulO]

12 hours ago, flahute said:

Their barrels are separate and have Michter's stamps on them.

Are they selected by lawyers?

[Old Hippie]

20 hours ago, Mako254 said:

 Are you aware of any changes coming to the OF barrel program?

 

I really enjoy sig at 100 proof for $23 and 1920 is very consistent and a pour I enjoy. I think $55ish is a fair price. 

 

OF single barrel is kind of odd man out for me. Less proof than sig and almost double the price. If I am going to be over $50 OTD then I go with 1920. 

Higher proof or the option to select ‘whiskey row’ style barrels would lead to me buying more OF. 

I am not aware of any changes in the OF barrel program. Hopefully they will get caught up and release more barrels. I think the 90 proof works just fine for the barrel program. They already have 2 - 100 proofs in the signature and the 1897. As for cost, the OF SB is generally under $50, and is a fair value.