HoustonNit Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 This should be on a different post, but thought I would bring it up. I saw an e-mail from a distributor that said KC 120 SB is going to have a $15 to $20 increase by the end of this year. Nice knowing you KC, it’s been a fun run. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 hours ago, LCWoody said: I have done 4 barrel picks of KC this year, and have noticed that all the samples are 10 to 11y's old. No more 14y samples, now I know why? Possible, but I've also been hearing that those older barrels of KC are mostly tapped out. Can't say for sure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbroo5880i Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) I notice a few local retailers have had recent KCSB store picks 14+ years. I was surprised since I thought most had already been used up. Regarding the price increase, I noticed the regular KCSB 120 jumped from $29,99 to $36.99 a few years ago. It can be occasionally found for $39.99 but normally runs in the mid-$40s now. I have even seen it for $49.99 in some of the larger chain stores. I can still find Baker's in the low to mid-$40s so if the price jumps too much I will opt for Baker's until its price jumps. I can occasionally find Booker's in the upper $60s on sale but it is generally closer to $80. Beam is really starting to price me out of KC, Baker's and Booker's. Edited June 13, 2019 by mbroo5880i 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinbrink Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 21 hours ago, LCWoody said: This should be on a different post, but thought I would bring it up. I saw an e-mail from a distributor that said KC 120 SB is going to have a $15 to $20 increase by the end of this year. People can only talk about great values for so long before the manufacturer notices..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbroo5880i Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, kevinbrink said: People can only talk about great values for so long before the manufacturer notices..... Fair enough. I am curious how the price increase in Booker's has worked out. Seriously. My guess is I won't like the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinbrink Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 1 minute ago, mbroo5880i said: Fair enough. I am curious how the price increase in Booker's has worked out. Seriously. My guess is I won't like the answer. I'll say this, before the price increase I would see releases on the shelf from the last few years, these days I rarely see one from prior to the calendar year. One of the reasons I think has been the batch names, just like the dopey stickers people are putting on their store picks people seem to go after bottle with an associated "Name". I'm kind of surprised that if they were going to raise the price on KC they didn't do it with the new labels, then again they may have changed the packaging to get people to start buying it more raising the price when they had more market demand. No better marketing than all of the well aged store picks on the shelves these days, smart of them to make the specs front and center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbroo5880i Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, kevinbrink said: I'll say this, before the price increase I would see releases on the shelf from the last few years, these days I rarely see one from prior to the calendar year. One of the reasons I think has been the batch names, just like the dopey stickers people are putting on their store picks people seem to go after bottle with an associated "Name". I'm kind of surprised that if they were going to raise the price on KC they didn't do it with the new labels, then again they may have changed the packaging to get people to start buying it more raising the price when they had more market demand. No better marketing than all of the well aged store picks on the shelves these days, smart of them to make the specs front and center. Hmmm....either the price increase or the addition of batch names has made it more desirable or they are producing less. Admittedly, I haven't had any Booker's since last summer and then it was quite stellar. I am not sure of the batches or age as it was at a bar and my boss was paying. He said he would match me beer for bourbon. I opted for Booker's so he won. The only thing stopping me from picking up one of the newer batches is price and availability. I can still get KCSB and Baker's cheaper and they are easier to find. But, Booker's has a quality they don't match. Edited June 14, 2019 by mbroo5880i 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spade Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 In terms of the price increase in KCSB, much more than $50 would be a silly price. But Beam often tends to go from silly low prices to silly high prices so it seems plausible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinbrink Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 47 minutes ago, Spade said: In terms of the price increase in KCSB, much more than $50 would be a silly price. But Beam often tends to go from silly low prices to silly high prices so it seems plausible! One could argue that there are a number of distilleries that would still not be able to compete with a 9 year age stated 120 proof bourbon at $60, never mind older single barrels, there is certainly EC BP and WT gets close with RR SiB though they are NAS. Not justifying such a price increase just pointing out that people pay more for things that are more silly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spade Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 27 minutes ago, kevinbrink said: One could argue that there are a number of distilleries that would still not be able to compete with a 9 year age stated 120 proof bourbon at $60, never mind older single barrels, there is certainly EC BP and WT gets close with RR SiB though they are NAS. Not justifying such a price increase just pointing out that people pay more for things that are more silly. I had RRSB in mind actually. I can still get that for just under $50. And 1792 FP is about $40. I think somewhere between $45 and $55 seems reasonable for KCSB. It's the quickness of the prices changes that are silly perhaps — from $35 to possibly more than $50 in just a few years. Beam's prices for the small batch collection were so compressed and a bit incoherent for forever. The (in this case, rumored) big swing in a few years is hard not to notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinbrink Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 18 hours ago, Spade said: I had RRSB in mind actually. I can still get that for just under $50. And 1792 FP is about $40. I think somewhere between $45 and $55 seems reasonable for KCSB. It's the quickness of the prices changes that are silly perhaps — from $35 to possibly more than $50 in just a few years. Beam's prices for the small batch collection were so compressed and a bit incoherent for forever. The (in this case, rumored) big swing in a few years is hard not to notice. I personally don't find 1792 FP to be on the same level, the bottles I have had ranged from solid to hot mess, it's also NAS with AFAIK no indication of age. There are a bunch of NAS high proof bottles out there for less and even a couple younger age stated bottles off the top of my head OF 1920, 1792 FP, RR SiB, Ezra BP, OGD 114, Noah's Mill, Makers Cask Strength, Rare Breed, Stagg JR. For my wallet, maybe I'm old fashioned, the age statement still caries weight, with the exception of Ezra BP any of the above could be bottled at 4 years. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spade Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) I think we're actually in agreement for the most part. I'm just saying that a 35% increase in price is nuts. Edited June 15, 2019 by Spade typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miller542 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 I'm interested, "if the price is right" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis Reed Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Bakers is underrated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarthQuake Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) On 6/13/2019 at 7:56 PM, kevinbrink said: People can only talk about great values for so long before the manufacturer notices..... Yeah and really this is what it's all about. I mean there's a few old timers here who pay attention to these things that will be upset. But look at the market as a whole: 9 year old 120 proof single barrel 13 year 107 proof single barrel If you turn off the part of your brain that remembers what these products currently cost / what they used to cost, and take into consideration other products currently on the market, how much would you expect these bourbons to sell for? If you say less than $60, you're fooling yourself. Honestly, if Beam has a steady supply of 13+ year old bourbon, and they're pumping it out at $40 a bottle in the KC single barrel program, the people in charge should be fired. The boom is driven by new drinkers who don't have an attachment to these brands at X price point. So if Beam has well aged stock, they should be pushing age statements back out and raising prices, all they're doing is meeting market expectations at this point. That said, of all the major players, Beam has been particularly ham-fisted in the way it approaches this stuff - the big bump in price for Booker's with no age statement increase is a good example. Give us age statements, at a decent proof, and we'll pay for it. We as the whiskey drinking collective, not necessarily the members of this site. Personally, I think changing the specs on existing products is a bit of a mistake for them. If they rolled out a new 13 year, 107 proof age stated product, and didn't call it Baker's, nobody would complain that it costs more than Baker's. This is the sort of thing that BT excels at (Weller Full Proof anyone?) but Beam seams to totally whiff at. The CEHT line is another interesting example, it's basically Buffalo Trace at a bit higher proof and in a fancy tin (really, flavor profile is very similar as are the reported specs), but they get away with selling it for $15 extra, and most people would tell you that CEHT Small Batch is pretty well priced. Edited June 16, 2019 by EarthQuake 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinbrink Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, EarthQuake said: Yeah and really this is what it's all about. I mean there's a few old timers here who pay attention to these things that will be upset. But look at the market as a whole: 9 year old 120 proof single barrel 13 year 107 proof single barrel If you turn off the part of your brain that remembers what these products currently cost / what they used to cost, and take into consideration other products currently on the market, how much would you expect these bourbons to sell for? If you say less than $60, you're fooling yourself. Honestly, if Beam has a steady supply of 13+ year old bourbon, and they're pumping it out at $40 a bottle in the KC single barrel program, the people in charge should be fired. The boom is driven by new drinkers who don't have an attachment to these brands at X price point. So if Beam has well aged stock, they should be pushing age statements back out and raising prices, all they're doing is meeting market expectations at this point. That said, of all the major players, Beam has been particularly ham-fisted in the way it approaches this stuff - the big bump in price for Booker's with no age statement increase is a good example. Give us age statements, at a decent proof, and we'll pay for it. We as the whiskey drinking collective, not necessarily the members of this site. Personally, I think changing the specs on existing products is a bit of a mistake for them. If they rolled out a new 13 year, 107 proof age stated product, and didn't call it Baker's, nobody would complain that it costs more than Baker's. This is the sort of thing that BT excels at (Weller Full Proof anyone?) but Beam seams to totally whiff at. The CEHT line is another interesting example, it's basically Buffalo Trace at a bit higher proof and in a fancy tin (really, flavor profile is very similar as are the reported specs), but they get away with selling it for $15 extra, and most people would tell you that CEHT Small Batch is pretty well priced. CEHT is a great example of all flash marketing, based on what you know from the actual info on the bottle it is just another BIB bourbon that other distilleries are selling for $15-$25, but yep a tube. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarthQuake Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 5:00 PM, kevinbrink said: I personally don't find 1792 FP to be on the same level, the bottles I have had ranged from solid to hot mess, it's also NAS with AFAIK no indication of age. There are a bunch of NAS high proof bottles out there for less and even a couple younger age stated bottles off the top of my head OF 1920, 1792 FP, RR SiB, Ezra BP, OGD 114, Noah's Mill, Makers Cask Strength, Rare Breed, Stagg JR. For my wallet, maybe I'm old fashioned, the age statement still caries weight, with the exception of Ezra BP any of the above could be bottled at 4 years. I agree, an age statement carries weight for most buyers. For better or worse a higher age statement is an indicator of quality for most buyers, myself included. That said, I love 1792, at least all the releases I've had so far. I've been through a few bottles of the BIB and I'm nearly finished with this FP (which seams to get better and better) and have a couple bottles of 1792 FP store picks to get to when I kill this bottle. I haven't had enough of the brand to say how variable the quality is, but I'm a fan so far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCWoody Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 On 6/16/2019 at 6:34 PM, EarthQuake said: Yeah and really this is what it's all about. I mean there's a few old timers here who pay attention to these things that will be upset. But look at the market as a whole: 9 year old 120 proof single barrel 13 year 107 proof single barrel If you turn off the part of your brain that remembers what these products currently cost / what they used to cost, and take into consideration other products currently on the market, how much would you expect these bourbons to sell for? If you say less than $60, you're fooling yourself. Honestly, if Beam has a steady supply of 13+ year old bourbon, and they're pumping it out at $40 a bottle in the KC single barrel program, the people in charge should be fired. The boom is driven by new drinkers who don't have an attachment to these brands at X price point. So if Beam has well aged stock, they should be pushing age statements back out and raising prices, all they're doing is meeting market expectations at this point. That said, of all the major players, Beam has been particularly ham-fisted in the way it approaches this stuff - the big bump in price for Booker's with no age statement increase is a good example. Give us age statements, at a decent proof, and we'll pay for it. We as the whiskey drinking collective, not necessarily the members of this site. Personally, I think changing the specs on existing products is a bit of a mistake for them. If they rolled out a new 13 year, 107 proof age stated product, and didn't call it Baker's, nobody would complain that it costs more than Baker's. This is the sort of thing that BT excels at (Weller Full Proof anyone?) but Beam seams to totally whiff at. The CEHT line is another interesting example, it's basically Buffalo Trace at a bit higher proof and in a fancy tin (really, flavor profile is very similar as are the reported specs), but they get away with selling it for $15 extra, and most people would tell you that CEHT Small Batch is pretty well priced. Not trying to be picky but Bookers is age stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarthQuake Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 2 hours ago, LCWoody said: Not trying to be picky but Bookers is age stated. Possibly poorly worded but by "Booker's with no age statement increase" I meant that they did not increase the age statement (ie: put older whiskey into the Booker's line), not that Booker's isn't age stated. If they had bumped it from 6-7 years up to 10+ years, they wouldn't have gotten nearly as much negative press. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kepler Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 My experiments with regular 7 yr Baker's blended with what I call "Poor Man's Baker's" (aka JB Distiller's Cut, which is a 5 year NCF at 100 proof) convince me that I'd rather Beam just make the current Baker's Non-Chill Filtered, keeping the 7 yr/107 proof, and hold the line on price. @GaryT 's recent test results further support this I think a NCF 7 yr Baker's would be fantastic, and would actually be a good value even at $50. They could make it BP too and that would be fine with me. Then if they wanted to cash in on the current boom with an LE offering, they could still offer hand selected single barrels versions at BP packaged in a wooden box once per year and charge whatever the bean counters want. That would sell too. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzhead Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 The 14-year old KC single barrel store pick I have open isn't as good as my 7-year Bakers small batch. I'm disappointed that Beam is going to release the Baker's 14-year as a single barrel. I'm becoming more convinced that a well-constructed small batch is typically superior to a single barrel, offering better balance especially at greater ages where single barrels can sometimes be over-oaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWBadley Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 4 hours ago, Jazzhead said: The 14-year old KC single barrel store pick I have open isn't as good as my 7-year Bakers small batch. I'm disappointed that Beam is going to release the Baker's 14-year as a single barrel. I'm becoming more convinced that a well-constructed small batch is typically superior to a single barrel, offering better balance especially at greater ages where single barrels can sometimes be over-oaked. Indeed. It's possible the offering of these single barrels is due to a flavor profile not acceptable within any of the Beam small batch brands. Do they pick a "wow! here's a honey barrel lets bottle it in this brand"? I'm not privy to the selection process... I've about given up on most single barrel unless I get a taste of one that really jumps out. A few years ago a RY10 did just that. And a HMcK 10, and a Bowman single, all of which I ended up getting a few extras of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Tot Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 12 hours ago, Jazzhead said: The 14-year old KC single barrel store pick I have open isn't as good as my 7-year Bakers small batch. I'm disappointed that Beam is going to release the Baker's 14-year as a single barrel. I'm becoming more convinced that a well-constructed small batch is typically superior to a single barrel, offering better balance especially at greater ages where single barrels can sometimes be over-oaked. Buy bottles from different barrels and blend 'em yourself. Yes I do do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCWoody Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 8 hours ago, RWBadley said: Indeed. It's possible the offering of these single barrels is due to a flavor profile not acceptable within any of the Beam small batch brands. Do they pick a "wow! here's a honey barrel lets bottle it in this brand"? I'm not privy to the selection process... I've about given up on most single barrel unless I get a taste of one that really jumps out. A few years ago a RY10 did just that. And a HMcK 10, and a Bowman single, all of which I ended up getting a few extras of. This is one of the reasons I think that KC store picks have done so well, they don't taste like KC. I have been involved in some fantastic barrel picks of KC for the past 5 years or so, (some that sold out in days because they were so good) and I think the fact that they taste nothing like KC has made them so good and special. If a store pick is good I don't care if Jimmy Hoffa's name is on it. I say sell all the oddball barrels (that don't fit a profile) as store picks and let us sort them out. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnbowljoe Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 How many mashbills does Beam have? Biba! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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