TW

[FasterHorses]

Scotus Ruled that TN law regulating  LS ownership is unconstitutional. One small and Local (Nashville) result is TW will be moving in. Any positives to a TW coming in?

[kevinbrink]

1 minute ago, FasterHorses said:

Scotus Ruled that TN law regulating  LS ownership is unconstitutional. One small and Local (Nashville) result is TW will be moving in. Any positives to a TW coming in?

Bourbon Options aren't typically anything spectacular but in other spirits they have Doorly's and R.L. Seales Rum and generally have a few decent Armagnac options. Once upon a time here in NJ they had very good prices but these days they are far from the best option price wise. 

[0895]

12 minutes ago, FasterHorses said:

 Any positives to a TW coming in?

 

About the same as a Wal-Mart coming to town.

[PaulO]

I would say check it out, and compare their prices on brands you are familiar with.

TW has some of their own brands.  They try really hard to pitch these.  Somebody came up with a technical process to quickly speed up whiskey aging - yeah?

Oddly, TW has been advertising on the radio in Indiana.  We have no TW stores.  The closest one to me is Louisville, KY (over 100 miles away).  My state doesn't allow shipping either.

 

[JCwhammie]

Prices are MSRP and you'll get recommendations for 2-Star Bourbon and Tower Vodka. 

[FasterHorses]

12 minutes ago, 0895 said:

 

About the same as a Wal-Mart coming to town.

So  this really sounds bad. 

[PaulO]

I've come around on my feelings about Walmart.

Walmart is bad if it's your only store in town.  It's good if there are some serious competitors.  They all have to work for your business.

[flahute]

The Total Wine model is to come into a new market with low prices (that they may be taking a loss on), divert business away from independent businesses, drive them out of business, and then when the competition is mostly negated they raise their prices to higher than MSRP and there’s nothing you can do about it because they now have a monopoly.

[Darwin]

TW and Bevmo are both in the Phoenix market and have been for many years.  TW has the best prices and largest selection. Some spirits can be $10 or $15 difference.  The next best options are a few independents and grocery stores.  I'm glad for the options, more would be better.

[0895]

1 hour ago, flahute said:

The Total Wine model is to come into a new market with low prices (that they may be taking a loss on), divert business away from independent businesses, drive them out of business, and then when the competition is mostly negated they raise their prices to higher than MSRP and there’s nothing you can do about it because they now have a monopoly.

 

This is exactly true. 

Even if the locals hang on for awhile, the damage is done, because it’s just engraved in everyone’s head that TW is the cheapest.   Their coworkers, family, and friends will all keep talking about it and reinforcing it and keep the illusion going. 

I’m not telling anyone not to shop there,

Ive bought a few things over the years, but do your homework, know what you’re buying -especially if it’s a NDP label, and  decide for yourself, who deserves your hard earned dollars and when. 

 

[0895]

2 hours ago, FasterHorses said:

So  this really sounds bad. 

Nah, 

its just what it is. 

 

Sometimes Walmart is good, like when you need 5 quarts of Mobil one for $26.

I still hate going in there, but sometimes they have stuff you need at a great price. 

[GeeTen]

4 hours ago, flahute said:

The Total Wine model is to come into a new market with low prices (that they may be taking a loss on), divert business away from independent businesses, drive them out of business, and then when the competition is mostly negated they raise their prices to higher than MSRP and there’s nothing you can do about it because they now have a monopoly.

 

As a former TW employee, I can vouch for this accurate depiction of their business model.  When our TW store opened, the price for The Macallan 12 was $0.01 above cost (including post-offs for large deliveries and early payment on delivery instead of the 30 day "float" that the locals used to help with cash flow).  By state law, they couldn't sell product below cost (even though they often tried).  As the "national brands" started disappearing from our shelves about 18 months after a very successful opening period, the Regional Vice President's exact words to me were "Now it's time to make some money - tell the customers that our Spirits Direct products are as good as the "national brands" and sell them like crazy."   I left a them a few months later.   

 

Taste their SD products before you buy - some are good, most are not IMHO.  And you may see their prices for the "national brands" that they do continue to carry start creeping up to competitive levels again.  Caveat emptor, my friends.  

 

[Marekv8]

"If you really know your Scotch, why pay that much for a Lagavulin 16? This Sheildaig 18 is older and better-- scoring 112 out of 100 points. Plus, it's almost allocated."

[BigRich]

I buy wine and root beer there because they have the best selection of both. TW rarely gets my coin anymore for liquor. Like GT’s story, it was awesome when they first moved in but now it’s pretty blah.

[Jazzhead]

To a guy living in Pennsylvania a visit to a TW store is like being a kid in a candy shop.   (Although to be fair some of the Pennsy state stores are improving their selections,  they run genuine sales,  and nothing is artificially inflated in price.)

 

I agree that the salesfolk at TW seem to push the "Spirits Direct" products,   but they do have good selections from craft and smaller distillers.     For example, until its recent re-branding I'd never seen Mortlach outside of a TW.    They've stocked good things like Outryder and Black Dirt Bourbon that I've rarely seen anywhere else.    The only bottle of Hancock Reserve I've seen in the last several years was at a TW.   And there's no better rum for the price than Doorly's -  apparently a TW exclusive.  

 

   

[Marekv8]

3 hours ago, Jazzhead said:

And there's no better rum for the price than Doorly's

 

That's a big claim…

 

[lcpfratn]

Scotus Ruled that TN law regulating  LS ownership is unconstitutional. One small and Local (Nashville) result is TW will be moving in. Any positives to a TW coming in?

According to some very knowledgeable friends in Knoxville, the Knoxville TW, which has been open for a while now, has already driven several local stores out of business using the practices that Flahute and GeeTen have described. Well capitalized local stores with a broad selection and good customer relations can withstand TW’s new market business practices, but smaller stores that primarily focus on selling high volume stuff will have a hard time surviving against TW’s cutthroat competition.

Early on you will probably find some good deals, and occasionally you’ll find some things on sale after they’ve been established for awhile, but I have not been all that impressed with their whiskey selection in the stores I’ve visited in Kentucky. They had a very good price on the 4R SB Select when it first came out, but many of their other bourbon prices were higher than some local stores.

[Shizzy]

I really suppose it depends on your market and the number of people it will be serving.  I know that the TW that I shop at serves an area that is populated by about 250,000 people counting all neighboring cities.  There are several liquor stores, super markets and a Beverages & More that they must compete with.  That said, their prices are consistently lower than the others and have been for their entire time in business since arriving in the fall of 2016.  I live in the Bay Area of California and well...this can often be a wasteland for bourbon as it seems it is for much of the country in terms of the things we all typically covet and recall being on the shelves only a short time ago.  When local liquor stores get these items in, they are pricing them at near secondary prices.  I refuse to pay them and just look for outliers.  When Total Wine gets them in, they price them at or very near MSRP and they don't hold them for anybody and they don't call their friends or relatives as it's against company policy.  They instead sell it to walk-ins who request the items as they show in stock online.  I know, because I've taken advantage of this.  So, I guess if there's competition to keep them honest, then it's not such a bad experience in my opinion.  But I suppose it would be that way with any company.  After all, there was nobody for YEARS keeping Beverages & More in check in my area.

[berto]

I've found TW isn't really special on pricing absent coupons which are usually restrictive.  Their bourbon selection is fairly standard and is polluted with garbage tier house brands that the staff are told to steer you towards.  They will price match and some friends have gone full shenanigan with that.  They have some rums that can't be bought elsewhere.  I shop there once a year on vacation as the outposts closer to home aren't close enough to be worth my time.  An hour round trip to save a couple bucks isn't something I do.  I like that their inventory is searchable online and you can order for pick up though accuracy isn't always the best.        

[bgellco]

I'm curious to see what TW's impact here in Colorado will be in the long term.  They opened their first store in the state about a year ago, and to be honest as a consumer, it's been great so far in terms of low prices.  The climate here in CO is a bit different, however, in that until very recently, ALL beer (above 3.2), wine, and spirits were only sold in independent liquor stores.  This led to LOTS of mom-and-pop's on literally every corner, as well as some other very large stores with huge selections (and often better prices - but not always).  So TW faces some significant competition here, but so far they do seem to be pricing most things at or below the competition.  It'll be interesting to see if they're able to raise their prices in the future or if they'll have to keep them low to compete.

 

The REAL impact, however, is the change in CO's liquor laws which now allows beer sales in other locations (grocery stores, etc.).  It doesn't apply to wine and spirits (yet), but I'd imagine this might have a pretty big effect already on the mom-and-pops, in that they no longer have a "monopoly" in a given area - since the supermarket next door can now also sell (real) beer.  I think this will be a bigger impact than TW itself.

 

However, I believe the new law also now allows an entity to own multiple locations, which had been prohibited before.  Therefore, I'm assuming TW will open other locations in the state (but I haven't seen any official plans yet). 

 

It'll be interesting to see what the landscape here looks like in a few years when all the dust settles.

[lcpfratn]

I'm curious to see what TW's impact here in Colorado will be in the long term.  They opened their first store in the state about a year ago, and to be honest as a consumer, it's been great so far in terms of low prices.  The climate here in CO is a bit different, however, in that until very recently, ALL beer (above 3.2), wine, and spirits were only sold in independent liquor stores.  This led to LOTS of mom-and-pop's on literally every corner, as well as some other very large stores with huge selections (and often better prices - but not always).  So TW faces some significant competition here, but so far they do seem to be pricing most things at or below the competition.  It'll be interesting to see if they're able to raise their prices in the future or if they'll have to keep them low to compete.
 
The REAL impact, however, is the change in CO's liquor laws which now allows beer sales in other locations (grocery stores, etc.).  It doesn't apply to wine and spirits (yet), but I'd imagine this might have a pretty big effect already on the mom-and-pops, in that they no longer have a "monopoly" in a given area - since the supermarket next door can now also sell (real) beer.  I think this will be a bigger impact than TW itself.
 
However, I believe the new law also now allows an entity to own multiple locations, which had been prohibited before.  Therefore, I'm assuming TW will open other locations in the state (but I haven't seen any official plans yet). 
 
It'll be interesting to see what the landscape here looks like in a few years when all the dust settles.

Very similar to the situation in TN until a few years ago.

[HoustonNit]

 
That's a big claim…
 

This is Hampden right? Yeah, Doorly is from Foursquare but I’d rather have Hampden ovenproof and 6 years over 12 year Foursquare at 80 proof.

[PowderKeg]

Where in Nashville is TW setting up?  I sure hope close to 65 or 40.  Better yet would be for 'em to come to Memphis too. 

 

I'd love for a TW to show up in Little Rock/NLR.  The Louisville TW is a must-stop every trip to/thru, along with a few LB's and Party Mart.  IIRC, it's roughly 3 years since TW came to Lou (2 years since I left Ft Knox), and I can't recall any well-thought-of/well stocked Lou shops that went belly-up because of TW - AFAIK Westport, Party Mart, many LBs are all still cranking along (they were the last time thru in July).  Someone from Lou can chime in with a correction.  It took @ 1.5 yrs for LB to start dropping reg prices on many labels (but far from all) to at least come close to if not match TW's prices.  On the avg, TW pricing was at least $5-10 cheaper on 750s and more on handles.  Over the past 2 yrs of stops (3-4 per yr when travelling) I've not noticed any significant increase in TW's prices - a few $ here and there, but that's to be expected.  I've kept the lengthy list of shelf prices I made when they first opened and have made relatively few corrections.

 

The biggest drawback to at least the Lou TW was a significant lack of BT-sourced products - I think BT was the only label I remember seeing there a time or two, heard a rumor of ER, and not a whisper of anything Weller, ETL, or Blantons  This didn't indicate any problems with Sazerac though, as Barton-sourced labels were plentiful - I suspect at least a few of their store labels are Barton-sourced, like Two Stars (like Flatboat from LB).  Fortunately the numerous LBs in Lou can fill the BT void.  Their selection of bourbon balls is pitiful too - only have Woodford (meh!) and you have to hunt for 'em.  LB and especially PM are the go-to's there.

 

Gonna be up in Lou in a week+ and will almost certainly bring back a few bottles from TW, and some boxes of bourbon balls from elsewhere.

[parksmart]

One benefit of having TWs in the area is that nearby Costco locations will drop their prices on competing products.  Think along the lines of Veuve Cliquot/Dom Perignon champagnes, well known Napa cabs and French Bordeaux, etc.  

 

I haven’t bought anything from TW in awhile, but will almost always cruise through one if it’s next door to a store I’m going to.......

[FasterHorses]

On 10/20/2019 at 3:25 PM, PowderKeg said:

Where in Nashville is TW setting up?  I sure hope close to 65 or 40.  

Rumor was Brentwood where the crappiest LS  in the state is ...next to Stein Mart and TJ Maxx.