Irish whiskey vs. Scotch

[Anvil 20]

Forgive my ignorance, but it seems that the vast majority of Irish & Scotch that I find on the shelves is 80 proof.    I know that higher proofed ones exist, but are they something of a rarity?    Are Irish and Scotch generally considered to be lower proofed than bourbon? 

[evasive]

Going back and reviewing this thread, I realize your attachment didn't come through. Can you re post it?
Thanks!

Sorry- I didn’t see this notification. I don’t think I posted an attachment in this post. I was speaking metaphorically when I wrote “zoom in.”

Forgive my ignorance, but it seems that the vast majority of Irish & Scotch that I find on the shelves is 80 proof.    I know that higher proofed ones exist, but are they something of a rarity?    Are Irish and Scotch generally considered to be lower proofed than bourbon? 

Generally speaking. That’s probably due to both climate and culture. The cooler Scottish climate often leads to a loss in proof in the barrel, versus the hotter American climate that sees increasing proof. That probably contributes to a different expectation for appropriate strength in each region.

[HoustonNit]

Generally speaking. That’s probably due to both climate and culture. The cooler Scottish climate often leads to a loss in proof in the barrel, versus the hotter American climate that sees increasing proof. That probably contributes to a different expectation for appropriate strength in each region.

The same applies to Irish whiskey as well where they tend to lose proof during age due to climate. I think this is offset in both locales by a barrel entry proof that I think is generally 160 proof vs. 120 or less for bourbon.

I think part of the lower proof problem is that your probably seeing a slightly more limited selection on the Irish and Scotch. If you go overseas you’ll see mostly 80proof bourbon. I also feel that particularly with Scotch they’re made a lot of efforts to up proofs to at least 86 and usually 92 proof for single malts I see along with NCFs.

[EarthQuake]

@Anvil 20

 

The usual for Scotch & Irish is 80-92 pf. That said, there's tons of barrel proof / high proof Scotch out there, the problem is that a lot of it is bottled by independent bottlers, and we don't usually see a lot of those in the states. But you can find them at some of the mega stores like Binny's in Illinois, Ace in Minnesota, etc.

 

A few nice barrel proof Irish / Scotches that aren't difficult to find:

Redbreast 12 Cask Strength - probably the best all around Irish on the market

Aberlour A'bunadh - great if you want an intense sherry bomb Scotch, hold the peat

Ardbeg Corryvreckan & Uigeadail - these boys bring the peat and the heat. They also do a yearly Ardbeg Day special release, and if you can find the Committee Edition, it's generally barrel proof (or at least higher than 100pf). I got a bottle of the CE Drum and Grooves the last two years, both of which were excellent.

 

Jameson 18 year recently went to barrel proof as well, but that's getting pretty spendy. Though I would take it over the equally spendy Midleton Very Rare or Barry Crocket.

Edited November 4, 2019 by EarthQuake

[HoustonNit]

[mention=15053]Anvil 20[/mention]
 
The usual for Scotch & Irish is 80-92 pf. That said, there's tons of barrel proof / high proof Scotch out there, the problem is that a lot of it is bottled by independent bottlers, and we don't usually see a lot of those in the states. But you can find them at some of the mega stores like Binny's in Illinois, Ace in Minnesota, etc.
 
A few nice barrel proof Irish / Scotches that aren't difficult to find:
Redbreast 12 Cask Strength - probably the best all around Irish on the market
Aberlour A'bunadh - great if you want an intense sherry bomb Scotch, hold the peat
Ardbeg Corryvreckan & Uigeadail - these boys bring the peat and the heat. They also do a yearly Ardbeg Day special release, and if you can find the Committee Edition, it's generally barrel proof (or at least higher than 100pf). I got a bottle of the CE Drum and Grooves the last two years, both of which were excellent.
 
Jameson 18 year recently went to barrel proof as well, but that's getting pretty spendy. Though I would take it over the equally spendy Midleton Very Rare or Barry Crocket.

.Redbreast 12 CS is such a great whiskey. Not only is it Irish Pot Still but also cask strength. Irish Pot Still unlike most of what you see in America is malt and barley along with the pot still and non column distilled product. I think most of the big name Irish brands mix column distilled products that have a mash consisting of corn and rye as well.

[Anvil 20]

Thanks for the great info, everyone! 

[kevinbrink]

On 11/3/2019 at 11:11 PM, EarthQuake said:

@Anvil 20

 

The usual for Scotch & Irish is 80-92 pf. That said, there's tons of barrel proof / high proof Scotch out there, the problem is that a lot of it is bottled by independent bottlers, and we don't usually see a lot of those in the states. But you can find them at some of the mega stores like Binny's in Illinois, Ace in Minnesota, etc.

 

A few nice barrel proof Irish / Scotches that aren't difficult to find:

Redbreast 12 Cask Strength - probably the best all around Irish on the market

Aberlour A'bunadh - great if you want an intense sherry bomb Scotch, hold the peat

Ardbeg Corryvreckan & Uigeadail - these boys bring the peat and the heat. They also do a yearly Ardbeg Day special release, and if you can find the Committee Edition, it's generally barrel proof (or at least higher than 100pf). I got a bottle of the CE Drum and Grooves the last two years, both of which were excellent.

 

Jameson 18 year recently went to barrel proof as well, but that's getting pretty spendy. Though I would take it over the equally spendy Midleton Very Rare or Barry Crocket.

Laphroaig 10 CS belongs on the list here to me, I'd take it over any of the above.

[Spade]

I'd add Springbank 12 cask strength as well. It's not always available but can be obtained without too much effort. It's a bit pricey compared to Laphroaig 10 CS, but it's comparable in price to Abrelour A'bunadh or Redbreast 12 CS.

 

Springbank 12 is in my personal top 10 of reasonably available whiskies (scotch, irish, or otherwise).

[StarSurfer55]

Never been a big Irish. But have heard a lot about Redbreast 12. I stopped and bought this today. It is quite lovely and smooth. I may become an Irish fan now. 

[Kane]

31 minutes ago, StarSurfer55 said:

Never been a big Irish. But have heard a lot about Redbreast 12. I stopped and bought this today. It is quite lovely and smooth. I may become an Irish fan now. 

First time seeing that box thanks to your pic. I just looked up their new box & labels, the 12 CS and 21 are finally distinguishable from the rest.

 

(Try the 12 CS next, it's quite a bit better than just "lovely")

[Harry in WashDC]

StarSurfer55 - A couple years ago, some guy with the appropriate username of "McGuffin" appeared then disappeared within weeks after touting the "Irish Whiskey Society of America".  I bit , and a whole new world (beyond Bushmills and Jameson) opened up.  Suffice to say, I'm kind of glad that person showed up (even if he was hustling us).  The IWSA website has nice links to info on the Irish whiskey business.  Good news is, unlike me, one need not join to read most of their info.  I happen to LOVE Redbreast in its various forms, and my most recent purchase was a 12 cask strength (which I first tasted the day after the Caps won the Stanley Cup at The Dubliner in WashDC).  The Lustau finish has to be one of the best blind purchases I've ever made.

 

RE: Irish generally, for me it is an occasional sipper, particularly in non-Winter months and on super-hot days when I don't feel like freezer bourbon and don't want the weight of beer.  My favorite blend is Writer's Tears which itself comes in a couple versions.

 

FYSA (military talk meaning "For Your Situational Awareness"), a quick SB search for "Irish" should turn up a few threads discussing how Irish whiskey fits in the scheme of whiskey/whisky.  Like the numbers for Canadian consumption in the US, I am flabbergasted by how much Irish gets swallowed here.

 

[StarSurfer55]

Harry - Thanks my first experience with Irish was Jameson and, frankly, was not impressed.  After watching the whiskey vault reviews on youtube and having them select redbreast as the best Irish of 2019, I decided to take the plunge.  It was a great choice.  I have an interaction with an irish group through work and have recommendations for  Teeling, green spot, and writers tears from them.  I will do as you advise and do a deeper dive on the topic but for now, I am staying with the Redbreast.

[HoustonNit]

I remember that McGuffin guy wondered what happened to him. He gave some great advice for a trip I took to Dublin and seemed to know everyone In the Irish whiskey world.

[The Black Tot]

I think Redbreast 12 is the gateway Irish for a lot of us.

 

Do the Redbreast CS next.

 

I'm looking forward to properly mature Irish whiskey being much better value in 10yrs or so.

[smokinjoe]

2 hours ago, The Black Tot said:

I'm looking forward to properly mature Irish whiskey being much better value in 10yrs or so.

You really should change your handle to Job...  

[The Black Tot]

14 minutes ago, smokinjoe said:

You really should change your handle to Job...  

 

The 20-yr bunker helps.

[Clueby]

My joke re Irish whiskey and triple distilling is that they just keep distilling it till they get all the flavor out.

 

I'm not a fan of most Irish whiskey.  Some of the older stuff is decent as it takes on more of the "bourbon" character from the wood.  I feel the same way about most Scotch.  I guess my palate just isn't sophisticated enough to pick out all the subtle nuances of Scotch and good Irish.  With bourbon, the flavors are pretty much there punching you in the mouth and hard to miss.  

 

I DO like ultra peaty Scotches.  Ardbeg is my go to for that.  I also like sherry finished a bit.  Again, I think its something about that "blast" of flavor compared to something like a Highland malt.

[HoustonNit]

Isn’t triple distilled so they can get it up to the ultra high barrel entry proof?

[Kyjd75]

Just discovered this discussion.  I also have tried venturing into the worlds of Irish and Scotch whiskey.  With respect to what seems to be the almost unanimous opinion of everyone, Redbreast 12 is hard to beat in any of its forms.  My wife enjoys an Irish coffee in the evenings, and I usually use RB12 to make it.  Now if you want a real treat, there is a Redbreast 21 yr cask strength that can be had, but it is expensive.  I've had a couple when they were less $ than what they are now, but believe they are in the $300+ range now.  But if you want the ultimate Irish whiskey, imho, the RB21CS is it.

 

Scotch, hmmm.  I've tried a bunch of different ones from different areas of Scotland.  The only ones I like are the peaty Islay brands.  Lagavulin 16 is the one Scotch whiskey that I truly enjoy drinking.  Ardbeg's Uigeadail is a close second.  Both deliver an initial blast of peat that can be overwhelming, but once you get through that, they both are actually quite tasty.  All of the others that I have tried did not do anything for me.  If you haven't tried Lagavulin 16, I definitely recommend it.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Kyjd75

[smokinjoe]

8 hours ago, Kyjd75 said:

If you haven't tried Lagavulin 16, I definitely recommend it.

I would second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth, this statement.  

[kcgumbohead]

On 1/13/2020 at 11:04 AM, Clueby said:

My joke re Irish whiskey and triple distilling is that they just keep distilling it till they get all the flavor out.

 

I'm not a fan of most Irish whiskey.  Some of the older stuff is decent as it takes on more of the "bourbon" character from the wood.  I feel the same way about most Scotch.  I guess my palate just isn't sophisticated enough to pick out all the subtle nuances of Scotch and good Irish.  With bourbon, the flavors are pretty much there punching you in the mouth and hard to miss.  

 

I DO like ultra peaty Scotches.  Ardbeg is my go to for that.  I also like sherry finished a bit.  Again, I think its something about that "blast" of flavor compared to something like a Highland malt.

That mirrors my feelings and experience as well. Unlike the vast majority RB12 was a serious let down. I generally pour Irish once a year on St. Paddys day but I needed to rid myself of that RB so if I had a cold or an off day I poured it to get rid of it. I remember one instance where I closed my eyes and really tried to focus on finding FLAVOR.... not much of that but it had boozy ethanol in spades.

On a happier note, I currently stock Teelings single malt and I actually enjoy it. I admit it has taken awhile to come around to it but I can appreciate it for what it is, and its been pleasant on several occasions not just a lucky day here and there.

I recall some talk of a RB issue a few years back and maybe I got an "off" bottle, regardless, it was bad. I may give the CS a try once the Teelings days are numbered.

 

[tanstaafl2]

On 3/20/2020 at 12:06 PM, kcgumbohead said:

That mirrors my feelings and experience as well. Unlike the vast majority RB12 was a serious let down. I generally pour Irish once a year on St. Paddys day but I needed to rid myself of that RB so if I had a cold or an off day I poured it to get rid of it. I remember one instance where I closed my eyes and really tried to focus on finding FLAVOR.... not much of that but it had boozy ethanol in spades.

On a happier note, I currently stock Teelings single malt and I actually enjoy it. I admit it has taken awhile to come around to it but I can appreciate it for what it is, and its been pleasant on several occasions not just a lucky day here and there.

I recall some talk of a RB issue a few years back and maybe I got an "off" bottle, regardless, it was bad. I may give the CS a try once the Teelings days are numbered.

 

Perhaps you prefer the Teeling because they are still mostly, if not entirely, still bottling Cooley whiskey which was almost always double distilled rather than the more typical triple distillation of Midleton and Bushmills. Triple distillation is not a requirement of Irish whiskey just as double distillation is not a requirement for Scotch (even though most of it is double distilled). 

 

Oddly it is my understanding that Teeling distillate will be triple distilled unlike the Cooley whiskey that their father made.

[kcgumbohead]

22 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said:

Perhaps you prefer the Teeling because they are still mostly, if not entirely, still bottling Cooley whiskey which was almost always double distilled rather than the more typical triple distillation of Midleton and Bushmills. Triple distillation is not a requirement of Irish whiskey just as double distillation is not a requirement for Scotch (even though most of it is double distilled). 

 

Oddly it is my understanding that Teeling distillate will be triple distilled unlike the Cooley whiskey that their father made.

That is interesting and I did not know that about Cooley, though I was aware of the Teeling history and the fact that Cooley is most likely the majority or entirety of  my bottle. I was also fan of Michael Collins (the man and the whiskey) and that was also a Cooley distillate. I had it on several occasions and sometimes as part of a flight in which it always came out on top to my palate. I looked up MC as I haven't seen it in years and  its been discontinued, the label I saw had "DOUBLE DISTILLED" prominently displayed. I never actually owned a bottle so I never studied it. I also now understand why I couldn't find one on the several occasions I went looking to purchase one to enjoy at home.

 

I wonder why they changed course with the Dublin Telling distillery. Cooley as far as I could ever tell was well regarded and one would think they would continue that and as a way to differentiate. Oh well, in a few years we'll get to taste what they are up to there in Dublin.

 

[mal00768]

This thread reminded me of a joke I was told by a Laphroaig brand ambassador Simon Brooking.

 

Irish whisky is distilled three times because the Irish couldn't get it right the first two times. To this, the Irishman replies, scotch is distilled only twice because the Scots can't count any higher.

Edited April 14, 2020 by mal00768

[ebo]

Am I the only Connemara fan here?