Solera Bottle Strategy Question

[Chefjohn]

I’ve been reading quite a bit about starting a Solera bottle and the concept intrigues me. I have a question or two about starting one. Those of you who have started one is there a  strategy to what you add to such as similar mash bills or proofs? Are you looking for a particular flavor profile? What would be a good start, process, and goal?

[smokinjoe]

I’ll just say here now, that if anyone lays out a detailed plan and strategy for this, they are FOS...  

 

[JCwhammie]

2 years ago I tried pouring an ounce each of about 16 or so bottles. This included 4R PS, RR SiB, and other comparably priced bourbons. It was not as good as the individual bourbons I put. I wont do it again.

I have had much better luck vatting 2 or 3 different products that have the same mashbill. 

[Marekv8]

I've kept a Solera bottle for the past 10 years or so-- with no rhyme or reason as to the components. It's a blend of all matter of matured spirits (SMSW, Blended Scotch, American Single Malt, Bourbon, Rye, Cognac) and frankly it's terrible. Last week I brought it home for my wife to use in doctoring her egg nog. All is good.

[Chefjohn]

Thanks for the input guys. 

[El Vino]

I’ve kept a solera bottle going for years.  In respect of Joe’s observation:  I keep it simple.  If I like it, I add an ounce.  I don’t add malts.  It’s a four grain and I love it.  YMMV.

[Richnimrod]

4 hours ago, El Vino said:

I’ve kept a solera bottle going for years.  In respect of Joe’s observation:  I keep it simple.  If I like it, I add an ounce.  I don’t add malts.  It’s a four grain and I love it.  YMMV.

This process mirrors mine, El Vino.   

I have never put in anything "lousy", or even moderately less than decent Bourbon (mine is all Bourbon; both rye mashbills and wheated ones), and while I wouldn't say it has always been a stellar pour, it has always been a decent enough one to enjoy neat.    ...And, in some moments in time, it has been a very damned fine pour.  I'm careful not to put too much of any one Bourbon into it at a time, and not let the proof get too high or too low.    Other than those couple 'rules', I pretty much 'play it by ear'.    At the moment it's what I'd call a better than average Bourbon, very complex, though a bit 'muddled', and I'd say worth every penny I charge for pours (always free!).

[BottledInBond]

Mine has always been both bourbon and rye. No real “rules” beyond that besides that I only put whiskey I like into it. I have really enjoyed mine most of the time. 
 

One fun exercise is to pour a guest a blind SBS of a solera and then some other regular whiskey. See how they like it when they don’t know what it is. People always think it’s really interesting after the reveal. 
 

If it’s fun and interesting to you, try it out. Your only risk is you don’t love what the blend evolves too, but at that point if you don’t want to just dump it you can probably still use it in cocktails just fine.

[Vosgar]

Since I'm sure I'll never be able to create anything better than what the master distillers have, I've never had the urge to do this. 

[Paddy]

A 'good' solera bottle should be like the girlfriend that doesn't get to meet your mother. 

 

You can do things with her you won't/don't ever want to do with......................

[EarthQuake]

I've started a new one recently, American style whiskey (there is a bit of 13 year Canadian WP rye), and at least 10 years old. Currently 10-25 years old with average age about 14. I've put in 1oz from about 20 or so different bottles so far. I may drop the age requirement down to 9 years as it's a little too tannic at the moment (and then I could add a bit from a few Four Roses picks I have).

 

I tend to keep styles separated, or well, I don't mix Scotch, Irish and Japanese whiskies with American style. A bit of peated Scotch can really overwhelm a blend. But I find Bourbon, Rye, and misc American whiskies (for instance I added a bit of 13 year old Light Whiskey) tend to play well together.

 

I also try to keep it to things I really like. I've found that if I try to hide a bit of something that has some off flavors (for instance, anything from Dickel) it can stand out more than I would expect.

 

Sometimes I do more esoteric blends. I've got a Four Roses bottle that currently has 8 of the 10 recipes (missing both Os). I add a bit with each new pick I open. It's quite good.

Edited December 2, 2019 by EarthQuake

[Chefjohn]

7 hours ago, EarthQuake said:

I've started a new one recently, American style whiskey (there is a bit of 13 year Canadian WP rye), and at least 10 years old. Currently 10-25 years old with average age about 14. I've put in 1oz from about 20 or so different bottles so far. I may drop the age requirement down to 9 years as it's a little too tannic at the moment (and then I could add a bit from a few Four Roses picks I have).

 

I tend to keep styles separated, or well, I don't mix Scotch, Irish and Japanese whiskies with American style. A bit of peated Scotch can really overwhelm a blend. But I find Bourbon, Rye, and misc American whiskies (for instance I added a bit of 13 year old Light Whiskey) tend to play well together.

 

I also try to keep it to things I really like. I've found that if I try to hide a bit of something that has some off flavors (for instance, anything from Dickel) it can stand out more than I would expect.

 

Sometimes I do more esoteric blends. I've got a Four Roses bottle that currently has 8 of the 10 recipes (missing both Os). I add a bit with each new pick I open. It's quite good.

Thank you. I do plan to only do American styles, at this time at least and currently all I have is bourbon. My “plan” is to include ones that I really like and enjoy on their own. I think it will be interesting to see how these marry. I figure worst case I can make one hell of a bbq sauce. 

[fishnbowljoe]

Many years ago we had a member here that poured the last dregs from his “empty”  bottles into his “Frankenstein” bottle. On a couple of occasions he brought his Frankenstein bottle to share at the Sampler or KBF. All I can say is that it was interesting. I believe Stu also did this, but called it his ”Dr. Funkensteen” bottle. Again, interesting to say the least.

 

Biba! Joe

[Richnimrod]

2 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

Many years ago we had a member here that poured the last dregs from his “empty”  bottles into his “Frankenstein” bottle. On a couple of occasions he brought his Frankenstein bottle to share at the Sampler or KBF. All I can say is that it was interesting. I believe Stu also did this, but called it his ”Dr. Funkensteen” bottle. Again, interesting to say the least.

 

Biba! Joe

...Or . . . Might it have been Franken-Shine?   I seem to recall Stu calling it thus.     ...Or maybe that was another of his "inventions"?    I do know the ones I was brave enough to try were... how shall I say it? ..."Unique"?

[Vosgar]

5 minutes ago, Richnimrod said:

...Or . . . Might it have been Franken-Shine?   I seem to recall Stu calling it thus.     ...Or maybe that was another of his "inventions"?    I do know the ones I was brave enough to try were... how shall I say it? ..."Unique"?

I believe you are correct with the Frankenshine. For the most part, "unique" is being rather kind but I seem to remember one year it was actually pretty decent

[fishnbowljoe]

10 minutes ago, Richnimrod said:

...Or . . . Might it have been Franken-Shine?   I seem to recall Stu calling it thus.     ...Or maybe that was another of his "inventions"?    I do know the ones I was brave enough to try were... how shall I say it? ..."Unique"?

 

4 minutes ago, Vosgar said:

I believe you are correct with the Frankenshine. For the most part, "unique" is being rather kind but I seem to remember one year it was actually pretty decent

Y’all are probably right about Stu’s Frankenshine.
 

Dane was the other member. I believe he was before your guys time though. 

[TwoFingers]

On 12/1/2019 at 11:04 PM, Paddy said:

A 'good' solera bottle should be like the girlfriend that doesn't get to meet your mother. 

 

You can do things with her you won't/don't ever want to do with......................

Something makes me say that I want a pour from your bottle, but i'm thinking I might feel dirty afterwards. 

 

My bottle is pretty simple, bourbon or rye and only stuff I like.  Works for me.

[Chefjohn]

So I have started my Solera bottle and would love your feedback. Currently it is comprised of:

1oz each Calumet Farms 12 year

Jeffersons Ocean Voyage 19

Rowans Creek

Henry McKenna 10 year BIB

Old Forester 1910

Makers Mark 101

 

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Chefjohn

[Richnimrod]

17 hours ago, Chefjohn said:

So I have started my Solera bottle and would love your feedback. Currently it is comprised of:

1oz each Calumet Farms 12 year

Jeffersons Ocean Voyage 19

Rowans Creek

Henry McKenna 10 year BIB

Old Forester 1910

Makers Mark 101

 

 

The only thing that comes to mind for me after reading your list, Chefjohn is this:

My experience blending just about anything else with BF-distilled products has been less than stellar.   

BF profiles seem to blend quite well with one another in most cases; but not as predictably well with other houses, at least in my few, and admittedly narrow, trials.   So, I'd avoid mixing 'em in until a small individual trial indicates likely success.   Your call, of course.

[Chefjohn]

7 hours ago, Richnimrod said:

The only thing that comes to mind for me after reading your list, Chefjohn is this:

My experience blending just about anything else with BF-distilled products has been less than stellar.   

BF profiles seem to blend quite well with one another in most cases; but not as predictably well with other houses, at least in my few, and admittedly narrow, trials.   So, I'd avoid mixing 'em in until a small individual trial indicates likely success.   Your call, of course.

Thanks Richnimrod. That’s exactly the kind of info I’m looking for. 

[EarthQuake]

On 12/1/2019 at 9:55 PM, Vosgar said:

Since I'm sure I'll never be able to create anything better than what the master distillers have, I've never had the urge to do this. 

This is logical of course, but most distillers/blenders don't have access to stock from many different distilleries. So it can be a lot of fun to mix things up a bit.

 

So maybe start with some Stagg Jr or something else that you know you like for the for the foundation, add some Four Roses for some spice and floral notes, and then some extra-aged Heaven Hill (EC18, Orphan Barrel) to bring some oak to the party. Do it in small scale first, working in teaspoons or tablespoons before committing to a ratio. You might be surprised by how easy it is to make new and interesting blends.

Edited December 8, 2019 by EarthQuake

[flahute]

4 minutes ago, EarthQuake said:

This is logical of course, but most distillers/blenders don't have access to stock from many different distilleries. So it can be a lot of fun to mix things up a bit.

 

So maybe start with some Stagg Jr or something else that you know you like for the for the foundation, add some Four Roses for some spice and floral notes, and then some extra-aged Heaven Hill (EC18, Orphan Barrel) to bring some oak to the party. Do it in small scale first, working in teaspoons or tablespoons before committing to a ratio. You might be surprised by how easy it is to make new and interesting blends.

I'm going to side with EQ on this.

A few years ago I did a blending workshop at Bulleitt (at the former Stitzel-Weller distillery) as part of the Bourbon Affair. I don't know for sure what the component parts of the 5 bourbons we had at our disposal were, but I have a good idea of what they have (Four Roses, Beam, BF, HH.......)

I have no idea what I'm doing so maybe I got lucky, but I came up with a great blend that even Molly Wellmann really liked. (She was sitting next to me during the workshop).

Bulleitt hadn't figured out ahead of time how to legally allow us to take our blends with us but I wasn't going to let that blend get away so I poured it into a double paper cup and walked out with it. I enjoyed that blend all afternoon until it ran out.

[Richnimrod]

15 hours ago, flahute said:

I'm going to side with EQ on this.

A few years ago I did a blending workshop at Bulleitt (at the former Stitzel-Weller distillery) as part of the Bourbon Affair. I don't know for sure what the component parts of the 5 bourbons we had at our disposal were, but I have a good idea of what they have (Four Roses, Beam, BF, HH.......)

I have no idea what I'm doing so maybe I got lucky, but I came up with a great blend that even Molly Wellmann really liked. (She was sitting next to me during the workshop).

Bulleitt hadn't figured out ahead of time how to legally allow us to take our blends with us but I wasn't going to let that blend get away so I poured it into a double paper cup and walked out with it. I enjoyed that blend all afternoon until it ran out.

A 'pro tip' that I've used myself more than once...

Always bring a couple water bottles with you to any sort of tasting, etc.    Drink one of 'em dry, then use it for transportation purposes.   Doesn't have to be very big usually; 8-oz. is plenty.   Or you could bring an empty pocket flask; but as a rule those can be hard to fill, given their small opening.