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flahute

BOTM 12/19: Stagg Jr. (and friends)

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JoeTerp
29 minutes ago, flahute said:

This. In early December I read a good review of it and told myself I should go get some. Got busy. Then Breaking Bourbon calls it bourbon of the year and there's an immediate run for it on all local stores. My local calls the distributor to get some more and they tell him it's now allocated. Ridiculous. It's the phenomena I talk about here frequently - that all of the new blood in bourbon has no interest in taking the journey of trying out everything to find out what they like. They want people to tell them what's good so they can go straight to the top.

Those of us who have been doing this for a very long time don't pay attention to any of the bourbon blogs/websites but the new blood follows them like gospel. 

This run on Stagg Jr. is yet another sign that the boom is still going very, very strong.

I can tell someone just got into bourbon if they're aggressively hunting Blanton's.

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flahute
48 minutes ago, JoeTerp said:

I can tell someone just got into bourbon if they're aggressively hunting Blanton's.

This is true.

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CUfan99
7 hours ago, JoeTerp said:

I think it's pretty silly when Fred Minnick, Jim Murray, or the San Fran awards lead to sudden shifts in market perception, but at least I understand it a little bit.  Breaking Bourbon influencing consumer behavior is a whole new level of insanity to me.

I was tatering for batch 12 before Breaking Bourbon’s reveal. 

5 hours ago, flahute said:

This. In early December I read a good review of it and told myself I should go get some. Got busy. Then Breaking Bourbon calls it bourbon of the year and there's an immediate run for it on all local stores. My local calls the distributor to get some more and they tell him it's now allocated. Ridiculous. It's the phenomena I talk about here frequently - that all of the new blood in bourbon has no interest in taking the journey of trying out everything to find out what they like. They want people to tell them what's good so they can go straight to the top.

Those of us who have been doing this for a very long time don't pay attention to any of the bourbon blogs/websites but the new blood follows them like gospel. 

This run on Stagg Jr. is yet another sign that the boom is still going very, very strong.

When you’ve never even nosed a BTAC and you hear from multiple places that a semi-obtainable/affordable bottle is similar I bet you would want to get it too. Trying out everything is impossible in this market unless you’re much more well off than most, but I understand your point about figuring out what you like of what’s available. I’ve done that. WT101, Rare Breed, and 4R have been settled on as favorites, but sometimes us peons want a little taste of the good life too. 

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Richnimrod
1 hour ago, CUfan99 said:

Trying out everything is impossible in this market unless you’re much more well off than most, but I understand your point about figuring out what you like of what’s available. I’ve done that. WT101, Rare Breed, and 4R have been settled on as favorites, but sometimes us peons want a little taste of the good life too. 

I feel your pain, CUfan99.  😪    

I am not a wealthy person; but, was fortunate to get into the hobby early enough to allow at least tastes, and usually a bottle of nearly all the brands/releases (that are now so difficult and expensive to source), so I don't feel "deprived" of a worthwhile experience.     But, I was also lucky enough several years ago to get to Bardstown at the appropriate time and share an amazing array of LE's and Dusty's; bottles offered by folx from this very community... all for the price of merely offering my bottles in return (though most of my bottles were far less rare and collectible) for their consumption.

 

At this point, possibly your best strategy is to make friends with some folx who are willing to share some of their good fortune, either because they can afford to be generous, or because the bottles, though 'special' now, were not all that dear back in the time they were acquired... or mainly because they are kind and generous spirits who have found it as enjoyable to help make someone's small dream come true and share such experience with 'em. 

For me, this has been a lovely side-effect of joining this board.    Now, at least some of my bottles have become 'sought after', and I'm pretty sure enjoyed by others, less fortunate or earlier in their Bourbon journey.   I find great satisfaction, and indeed joy, in sharing such times.   

 

Be generous with what you have.   Be truly thankful for what is offered.    ...And, share the experiences!  (That last part turns out to be the best part.)

 

I'll let you in a well-kept secret CUfan99.   The flavors and aromas of even the transcendent Bourbon experiences I've enjoyed are only percentage points 'above' just plain, good quality, Bourbons.   ...And, there are a great many of those which are still easily-sourced, and for reasonable coin.   ...A word to the wise.   

It's certainly OK to seek pinnacle experiences; but don't make the actual tasting the goal.   The journey is the best part of this hobby, not the destination.

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flahute
9 hours ago, CUfan99 said:

Trying out everything is impossible in this market unless you’re much more well off than most, 

I disagree unless you include all of the LE's in "everything".

What I mean is this: all of us who have been here for a long time do of course get excited about and pursue the LE's. What we also do is work our way through the entirety of each distillers portfolio to find out not only what we like, but also what we like that is accessible and affordable.

Now if you want to do this in the span of a few weeks or a month, than yes you have to be well off to buy that much whiskey in a short amount of time. That's not what we do though. It's a journey and it's a fun one.

My point about the new blood is that most of what I see online is that they aren't interested in the journey. They have no patience for it. They want to be told what is the best and as soon as they are they run out to clear shelves. Then they post their victories on social media so they can get all the attaboys. These guys never learn what they really like because they don't have the confidence to find out for themselves. These are the same guys that refer to much beloved bourbons here as an afterthought, saying things like "that's OK as a drinker" while they push each other out of the way to get a bottle of MGP Smoke Wagon for $175. 

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CUfan99
4 hours ago, flahute said:

I disagree unless you include all of the LE's in "everything".

What I mean is this: all of us who have been here for a long time do of course get excited about and pursue the LE's. What we also do is work our way through the entirety of each distillers portfolio to find out not only what we like, but also what we like that is accessible and affordable.

Now if you want to do this in the span of a few weeks or a month, than yes you have to be well off to buy that much whiskey in a short amount of time. That's not what we do though. It's a journey and it's a fun one.

My point about the new blood is that most of what I see online is that they aren't interested in the journey. They have no patience for it. They want to be told what is the best and as soon as they are they run out to clear shelves. Then they post their victories on social media so they can get all the attaboys. These guys never learn what they really like because they don't have the confidence to find out for themselves. These are the same guys that refer to much beloved bourbons here as an afterthought, saying things like "that's OK as a drinker" while they push each other out of the way to get a bottle of MGP Smoke Wagon for $175. 

Did you say Smoke Wagon!? I lost all train of thought. 

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Richnimrod
43 minutes ago, CUfan99 said:

Did you say Smoke Wagon!? I lost all train of thought. 

"Jerk that Smoke Wagon and go to work!"

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flahute
58 minutes ago, CUfan99 said:

Did you say Smoke Wagon!? I lost all train of thought. 

Lol. I did and I’m not making it up. It’s a “distillery” in Nevada. 

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Kepler
On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2020 at 9:34 PM, JoeTerp said:

I think it's pretty silly when Fred Minnick, Jim Murray, or the San Fran awards lead to sudden shifts in market perception, but at least I understand it a little bit.  Breaking Bourbon influencing consumer behavior is a whole new level of insanity to me.

 

I agree.  At least Minnick and the others have some kind of proven palates.  I'm not so sure about those dufuses from Breaking Bourbon.  What are their credentials anyway.  I find a lot of their recommendations are not in alignment with my own palate anyway; I for one don't trust BB as a source for reviews.  Top many misses for me to take them seriously anymore.  However their release calendar is useful I guess,

Edited by Kepler
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smokinjoe
12 hours ago, Kepler said:

 

I agree.  At least Minnick and the others have some kind of proven palates.  I'm not so sure about those dufuses from Breaking Bourbon.  What are their credentials anyway.  I find a lot of their recommendations are not in alignment with my own palate anyway; I for one don't trust BB as a source for reviews.  Top many misses for me to take them seriously anymore.  However their release calendar is useful I guess,

I could add about a dozen, or more, of these 3-4th tier people who are in the blogger/podcaster circle jerk.   Their reviews typically sound like it’s from a template where they just fill in words to make a point or take a “position”, and not just give a review.  Then they pimp each other’s blogs to create influence momentum, and help each other get a share of the Kentucky Bourbon ”Golden Pie”.  The book pimping is the worst...😫.  

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Spade

Should retitle this thread, "get off my lawn," lol.

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smokinjoe

OK, I’ll admit that I liked Batch 1... 

Going in, I figured it wasn’t going to be like the Daddy GTS, and it wasn’t.  What others thought a hot mess, I rather appreciated that young ruttin’ buck kick in the face profile.  Buffalo Trace whiskey with decent age and barrel proof.  I still think too many people were thinking they were going to get something close to the ~15 yr GTSes, and were disappointed it was more...rambunctious.  After that, my tastes of it have been rather limited, and I don’t see it often.  But, I buy when I do.  Solid BP whiskey.  

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Old Dusty
13 minutes ago, smokinjoe said:

OK, I’ll admit Batch 1... a hot mess

Fixed your post 😉

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smokinjoe
6 minutes ago, Old Dusty said:

Fixed your post 😉

That narrative is strong and often repeated, I’ll admit...  

 

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Old Dusty

Joe, I assumed you were taking a contrary position for discussion’s sake. The correct answer is that batches 1 and 2 were both a hot mess. Jacked up ethanol bombs. Lighter fluid.  Everclear with a tan.  Nigh undrinkable by all but the heartiest of souls with Teflon tongues, pvc esophaguses and iron stomachs. 
 

By the third batch they were getting it dialed in. Now they are fantastic. And batch 12 from last fall is getting rave reviews. Poor man’s BTAC and all of that. Though I believe 10 was the last I owned. 

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Vosgar
3 minutes ago, Old Dusty said:

The correct answer is that batches 1 and 2 were both a hot mess. Jacked up ethanol bombs. Lighter fluid.  Everclear with a tan.  Nigh undrinkable by all but the heartiest of souls with Teflon tongues, pvc esophaguses and iron stomachs. 

If only we could get honest and entertaining reviews like this out of Minnick, Murray and the rest. Very descriptive while actually using words and phrases that everyone can relate to. Outstanding!   (I especially love "Everclear with a tan")

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Old Dusty

Gary I hope I wasn’t too subtle. I intended to convey my mild dislike of the first two batches while leaving room for other opinions on the quality of the spirit. I probably should have taken a harder line.

 

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smokinjoe
38 minutes ago, Old Dusty said:

Joe, I assumed you were taking a contrary position for discussion’s sake. The correct answer is that batches 1 and 2 were both a hot mess. Jacked up ethanol bombs. Lighter fluid.  Everclear with a tan.  Nigh undrinkable by all but the heartiest of souls with Teflon tongues, pvc esophaguses and iron stomachs. 
 

By the third batch they were getting it dialed in. Now they are fantastic. And batch 12 from last fall is getting rave reviews. Poor man’s BTAC and all of that. Though I believe 10 was the last I owned. 

You have learned it well...Right down to, “The correct answer is...” 😒

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BigRich
Gary I hope I wasn’t too subtle. I intended to convey my mild dislike of the first two batches while leaving room for other opinions on the quality of the spirit. I probably should have taken a harder line.
 

I’m still not sure what you’re getting at.
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Old Dusty

Exactly! 

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