Some controversy with Lincoln Road's most recent Willett release

[ThirstyinOhio]

  There is a bit of controversy with Lincoln Road's 16yr WFE release from this past Saturday.  Apparently they removed the factory foils and waxed the bottles themselves.  Jamie and Misty's reputation is beyond reproach, but I am in agreement with many others that I don't like the idea of any store removing the original factory seal.  Some people have brought up questions of legality, and I am far from knowledgeable on that subject so I can't say if it is or isn't, but I would hate to see more and more stores getting into this practice.

 

  I also don't like this as most people recognize that wax top WFE are older bottlings and are more rare, while I doubt any of his purchasers would confuse this release with older bottles, it provides an uncertainty in the market that doesn't need to exist in my opinion. 

 

I've attached photos of the bottles as they came with the factory seals and also with them removed and waxed.

 

[smokinjoe]

This is bad in many ways.  Huge No-No.  All of your points in protest of this are valid.  If the wax is over the foil capsule, it might be more acceptable, but doesn’t sound like it is.

[Buckeye82]

56 minutes ago, smokinjoe said:

This is bad in many ways.  Huge No-No.  All of your points in protest of this are valid.  If the wax is over the foil capsule, it might be more acceptable, but doesn’t sound like it is.

I agree.  I believe this is probably more common than people think with other bottles/brands.  Russell's Reserve picks, Four Roses, I'm sure people are removing the plastic casings around the corks to wax.  Since this is becoming more prevalent, the waxing of bottles by the stores or group doing the pick, it's a good topic for discussion. 

[Bob_Loblaw]

58 minutes ago, Buckeye82 said:

I agree.  I believe this is probably more common than people think with other bottles/brands.  Russell's Reserve picks, Four Roses, I'm sure people are removing the plastic casings around the corks to wax.  Since this is becoming more prevalent, the waxing of bottles by the stores or group doing the pick, it's a good topic for discussion. 

Really?  Stickers all over the place, but this is the first I've seen/heard of a group/store removing the original packaging and doing their own wax top . . . 

[0895]

...and yet I suspect that every single bottle still got purchased.

 

Did anyone get upset/nervous  enough to walk out and keep their money?

Luckily this store has a decent reputation and is trusted.  Anything could be in those bottles.

Lots of money to be made with these kinda bottles right now.

[flahute]

1 hour ago, 0895 said:

...and yet I suspect that every single bottle still got purchased.

 

Did anyone get upset/nervous  enough to walk out and keep their money?

Luckily this store has a decent reputation and is trusted.  Anything could be in those bottles.

Lots of money to be made with these kinda bottles right now.

I'm hearing that they aren't moving very well. 

[BottledInBond]

4 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

This is bad in many ways.  Huge No-No.  All of your points in protest of this are valid.  If the wax is over the foil capsule, it might be more acceptable, but doesn’t sound like it is.

One retailer I am familiar with decided to wax-dip bottles of a BT portfolio brand barrel pick. BT heard about it and sent him a “cease & desist” type of communication, even though in this case it was over the existing sealed factory enclosures 

[Shizzy]

4 hours ago, ThirstyinOhio said:

  There is a bit of controversy with Lincoln Road's 16yr WFE release from this past Saturday.  Apparently they removed the factory foils and waxed the bottles themselves.  Jamie and Misty's reputation is beyond reproach, but I am in agreement with many others that I don't like the idea of any store removing the original factory seal.  Some people have brought up questions of legality, and I am far from knowledgeable on that subject so I can't say if it is or isn't, but I would hate to see more and more stores getting into this practice.

 

  I also don't like this as most people recognize that wax top WFE are older bottlings and are more rare, while I doubt any of his purchasers would confuse this release with older bottles, it provides an uncertainty in the market that doesn't need to exist in my opinion. 

 

I've attached photos of the bottles as they came with the factory seals and also with them removed and waxed.

 

I doubt Willett will like this much either.  Jamie may have shot himself in the foot on this one.  I hope not, but agree this is a horrible practice to employ.

[BottledInBond]

4 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

This is bad in many ways.  Huge No-No.  All of your points in protest of this are valid.  If the wax is over the foil capsule, it might be more acceptable, but doesn’t sound like it is.

One retailer I am familiar with decided to wax-dip bottles of a BT portfolio brand barrel pick. BT heard about it and sent him a “cease & desist” type of communication, even though in this case it was over the existing sealed factory enclosures 

 

I’m not sure what this fancy release costs, but I probably wouldn’t be a buyer anyways, but I have a hard time seeing myself buy this with foils tampered with

[flahute]

1 minute ago, BottledInBond said:

One retailer I am familiar with decided to wax-dip bottles of a BT portfolio brand barrel pick. BT heard about it and sent him a “cease & desist” type of communication, even though in this case it was over the existing sealed factory enclosures 

 

I’m not sure what this fancy release costs, but I probably wouldn’t be a buyer anyways, but I have a hard time seeing myself buy this with foils tampered with

$1200

[Buckeye82]

2 hours ago, Bob_Loblaw said:

Really?  Stickers all over the place, but this is the first I've seen/heard of a group/store removing the original packaging and doing their own wax top . . . 

Yeah, I see it a lot.  Especially in private groups.  Mostly with Four Roses and Russell's Reserve picks.

[Bob_Loblaw]

21 minutes ago, flahute said:

$1200

Thanks.  I was wondering the price, but figured whats the point as I know it would be well out of my price range. 

 

LOL at $1,200.  Willett is pretty much in the Kentucky Owl/Whistle Pig book for me.  Pricing has turned me off to the point of not even caring about what they release.  

 

On a side note Steve's recent post about the latest batch of Willett distillate having none of the red hot flavor is interesting as that was my biggest complain about the young rye and 5 year bourbon.  It was less in the 6 year, but still present enough.

[BottledInBond]

9 minutes ago, flahute said:

$1200

Gross

[Vosgar]

The bottle shown is 12/146, so multiply 146 x $1200 and you get $175,200 for this barrel of whiskey? Insanity doesn't even begin to describe this whole mess.

[0895]

23 minutes ago, Vosgar said:

The bottle shown is 12/146, so multiply 146 x $1200 and you get $175,200 for this barrel of whiskey? Insanity doesn't even begin to describe this whole mess.

LoL!

Misty probably got her birthday bottle for free though.  
 

also, they had to buy the wax...

Edited March 2, 2020 by 0895

[Vosgar]

7 minutes ago, 0895 said:

Misty probably got her birthday bottle for free though.  

And a new house, or maybe a Mercedes S class?

[mal00768]

5 hours ago, flahute said:

$1200

LOL

 

No way.

[AndyD]

5 hours ago, Vosgar said:

The bottle shown is 12/146, so multiply 146 x $1200 and you get $175,200 for this barrel of whiskey? Insanity doesn't even begin to describe this whole mess.

Sums up the state of things pretty well though. Sadly I’m fine paying 90$ for 4r picks, but willet barrels like this are on a different level.

 

maybe I’m missing something, I really do mean that, but Willet is probably the worst out there right now.  We rag on many brands about not disclosing their sourcing, but Willet gets a pass I guess.  

[flahute]

18 minutes ago, AndyD said:

Sums up the state of things pretty well though. Sadly I’m fine paying 90$ for 4r picks, but willet barrels like this are on a different level.

 

maybe I’m missing something, I really do mean that, but Willet is probably the worst out there right now.  We rag on many brands about not disclosing their sourcing, but Willet gets a pass I guess.  

NDA's. They can't say.

I don't like their prices at all but I get why they do it. They got tired of seeing their product get flipped for big dollars so they decided to take that profit for themselves. And people pay it.

On this particular barrel, my information is that the store is charging quite a markup on the barrel cost. See other recent 16yr WFE's from a couple California stores for what the pricing should have been given the barrel cost.

[EarthQuake]

I don't fault Willett* for charging high prices on these WFE bottles. People go nuts for the same stuff that the usual suspects (MGP etc) sell to various NDPs. Let them pay tatter prices for the privilege of having it say Willett on the bottle if they really want to. It's a stupidity tax more than anything. I would rather the money went to Willett than flippers or shady stores, at least that money is probably going towards making more whiskey.

 

* at whatever MSRP Willett sets, this seems like a big markup

 

This wax thing really is a perfect snapshot of the absurdity of the boom though.

Edited March 3, 2020 by EarthQuake

[GaryT]

I don't necessarily blame Willett on the gouging (I mean, I won't buy their sh!t), but if everyone followed suit of "Hey, flippers are making what?" we'd see prices across the board going up.  So while I don't blame them, I don't think it is a good practice.

 

This removing the foil seal to wax bullshit is exactly that - bullshit.  From a consumer protection standpoint, they should have all of those $1,200 bottles confiscated and destroyed.  I don't know the store folks from Adam, but this isn't rocket science.  It sounds like they have a pretty sound reputation, but if it falters - I'd say they brought that on themselves.  

[GTStagg]

Even if I was a massive Willett fanboy(which I am not) and money was not an object, I would not even be tempted to buy a bottle. Why would someone put the labor and expense into removing the seals and waxing knowing full well that this would turn off potential buyers? It makes no sense to me. The only possible reason I can think of is to make it difficult for someone to flip them. I don't care how good someone's reputation is, I would have to personally watch them remove the seal and wax the bottle in front of me.

[FacePlant]

Except for maybe the far east who are they going to flip it to at $1200 a bottle. I don't know or care where secondary is on this, but some nut would have to get $2500 for the flip and that just doesn't make sense. Of course to sell tampered bottles at a retail outlet is equally ridiculous. This is one of the great head scratchers of early 2020. I would agree with other posters this likely will take them out of game of being one of the few stores that receive WFE for sale.

[smokinjoe]

Of course, Willett could have simply said, As long as your check clears, I don’t care what you do with it after you buy it.  Use it for target practice with your .22 for all I care.  

[mal00768]

28 minutes ago, smokinjoe said:

Of course, Willett could have simply said, As long as your check clears, I don’t care what you do with it after you buy it.  Use it for target practice with your .22 for all I care.  

Probably. I doubt they can hear all of our whining over the sound of the engines from their backup yacht.