Willett's own distillate now in Rowan's, WPS, Johnny Drum

[fosmith]

I think that Pure Kentucky XO is now Willett distilled.  Kentucky Vintage definitely is.

[geclbxf]

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 5:14 PM, wadewood said:

I also question if they have enough of their own distillate aged at least 4 years that are going in these brands.  The Pot Still bottle is a big seller at least here in Texas.  

The pot still remains very hard to get, bourbon friends are always asking me to get when I go to Kentucky.   I have not opened a new one in over a year plus, but I find it to be extremely blah at best and bad at worst.   Anyone having a new or different experience?  

[fishnbowljoe]

1 hour ago, geclbxf said:

The pot still remains very hard to get, bourbon friends are always asking me to get when I go to Kentucky.   I have not opened a new one in over a year plus, but I find it to be extremely blah at best and bad at worst.   Anyone having a new or different experience?  

It’s been years since I had my one and only bottle of Willett Pot Still. I too found it blah at best. I see it in my are occasionally. The funny thing is, it’s usually on the shelf behind the counter with the limited release items.   

 

Biba! Joe

[Jazzhead]

I've never had the Willet Pot Still,  but their current Johnny Drum Private Stock is excellent,  especially at the $36 - 39 price point it goes for in these parts (South Jersey;  I've never seen it in a Pennsy State Store.)    My current open bottle of JDPS is indeed their own distillate,  and tastes nothing like my bottle of Noah's Mill.   But the NM is clearly (IMO)  Heaven Hill distillate  with its peanut brittle notes,  while the JDPS reminds me of good MGP juice.   And that's a great place to be,  IMO.

[Richnimrod]

1 hour ago, Jazzhead said:

I've never had the Willet Pot Still,  

You're not missing ANYTHING worth tasting, unless the new batches are SIGNIFICANTLY Different than the traditional profile.   

The bottle is really the selling point... unless you actually try to store one a shelf.  They are "Space Hogs"!   ...Both height and width!

[Jazz June]

Is there any information out there on which Willett mash bills are in these products? I believe they have three bourbon mash bills and that you can figure out which of these are in any given WFE single barrel release, but is there any similar info for the batched products?

[GeeTen]

3 hours ago, Richnimrod said:

 They are "Space Hogs"!   ...Both height and width!

Huh, that's how my wife describes my body (especially after spending a few hours on a Block Island beach today)!   

[Vosgar]

1 hour ago, GeeTen said:

Huh, that's how my wife describes my body (especially after spending a few hours on a Block Island beach today)!   

I can't imagine SWMBO would ever say that about you!   

 

Sort of back on topic..... I got a Willet Pot Still for Christmas from a well meaning neice. It's still a "meh" pour.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Vosgar

[wadewood]

On 6/28/2020 at 12:22 PM, Jazz June said:

Is there any information out there on which Willett mash bills are in these products? I believe they have three bourbon mash bills and that you can figure out which of these are in any given WFE single barrel release, but is there any similar info for the batched products?

http://bourbonr.com/blog/willett-distillery-mash-bill-breakdown/ - this breaks down all their mashbills, but so far no info on what mashbills go into what products

[Harry in WashDC]

50 minutes ago, wadewood said:

http://bourbonr.com/blog/willett-distillery-mash-bill-breakdown/ - this breaks down all their mashbills, but so far no info on what mashbills go into what products

THX, Wade.  As I posted a few months ago on an other SB thread, I picked up a Willett Family thingee of at least 4 yrs., and was pleasantly surprised at the ABSENCE of the grassy overtone normally found in too-young distillate.  I sure wish they'd be more forthcoming.  Some of us retirees with more money than we want to leave to our heirs would happily support their efforts if we had more info on what we are buying.

[smokinjoe]

On 6/27/2020 at 10:30 AM, fosmith said:

I think that Pure Kentucky XO is now Willett distilled.  Kentucky Vintage definitely is.

I would not be surprised with the XO, Fred.  I picked up a bottle in late February that proved to be on the nice side of the, “you never know what you get in a box of chocolates” that these Willett labels can offer you with each purchase.  But, pressing my luck I picked up another a few weeks ago, and it was way off point.  It tasted VERY young, thin, and grainy, and well outside the already wide range that these Willetts offer.    I guess my next Forest Gump adventure will be for a Noah’s Mill...

[PaulO]

If I get burned by an off batch, I stay away, maybe for a long time, or forever.

I find it patronizing or disrespectful to the customer.  Doesn't the company employ anyone to taste test before they bottle and sell.  What's the point of having a brand if there is no consistency.  We're not even talking bottom shelf here.  These are marketed as high end.  That makes it worse.

Thank goodness for the legacy (and some small) distillers that treat us better than this.

[BottledInBond]

12 minutes ago, PaulO said:

If I get burned by an off batch, I stay away, maybe for a long time, or forever.

I find it patronizing or disrespectful to the customer.  Doesn't the company employ anyone to taste test before they bottle and sell.  What's the point of having a brand if there is no consistency.  We're not even talking bottom shelf here.  These are marketed as high end.  That makes it worse.

Thank goodness for the legacy (and some small) distillers that treat us better than this.

And this has been a primary reason why I almost never buy much from Willett, besides the WFE ryes

[fosmith]

13 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

I would not be surprised with the XO, Fred.  I picked up a bottle in late February that proved to be on the nice side of the, “you never know what you get in a box of chocolates” that these Willett labels can offer you with each purchase.  But, pressing my luck I picked up another a few weeks ago, and it was way off point.  It tasted VERY young, thin, and grainy, and well outside the already wide range that these Willetts offer.    I guess my next Forest Gump adventure will be for a Noah’s Mill...

The couple that do the YouTube channel, "It's Bourbon Night" had the exact same experience when they did a SBS with an older and a new bottle of XO.  I liked the sourced stuff but it's now off my list of bottles I want to buy again.  They made the point (and I totally agree) that if the producer is going to dramatically change the flavor profile of a product, they should rebrand it.  Otherwise, it's deceptive and alienates the consumer. 

[fosmith]

1 hour ago, BottledInBond said:

And this has been a primary reason why I almost never buy much from Willett, besides the WFE ryes

Yes, this.  But their ryes ARE damn good...

[Flyfish]

On 6/24/2020 at 8:11 PM, Clueby said:

I bought a bottle of OB right after it became their own distillate a couple years ago. It was the 90pf, not the BIB. It remains the worst $20 I've ever spent. It was horrible, dreadful stuff.  I trust that their stuff has gotten better over time but I haven't been able to bring myself to try again. I did get a bottle of the OB Estate as a gift in December and it was barely "just ok". I would not be tempted to buy it.

Similar experience here. Bought the BIB hoping it would be better than the 90. Nope.

[PhantomLamb]

2 hours ago, Flyfish said:

Similar experience here. Bought the BIB hoping it would be better than the 90. Nope.

Wow, I got a bottle of the estate and it’s wonderful. Lots of peanuts/caramel.

 

Crazy how palettes differ.

[Kyjd75]

On 6/27/2020 at 10:30 AM, fosmith said:

I think that Pure Kentucky XO is now Willett distilled.  Kentucky Vintage definitely is.

I just picked up a bottle of Pure Kentucky XO and it is definitely Willett distilled.

 

[Richnimrod]

49 minutes ago, Kyjd75 said:

I just picked up a bottle of Pure Kentucky XO and it is definitely Willett distilled.

 

I'm not so sure about your conclusion that it's entirely distilled by Willett.   

If one reads this label line-by-line it must be interpreted as saying that is is indeed distilled as well as aged "in Kentucky".   

The next line could mean it's 'Aged and Bottled in KY by Willett'... or it could indicate from the entire label that the contents are merely offered (the implication being that since it's being sold, someone is selling it, and that 'someone' is Willett) "by Willett Distillery" for your drinking pleasure.     ...Or it could mean ... Just what you believe it does.   However, I'd be more certain of that if it was worded more like this: "Contents Entirely Distilled by Willett Distillery at it's facility in Bardstown, KY".     (No commas, line-separations, or other reasons to wonder about the meaning.)

Leaving room for interpretation and equivocation is basic BS strategy used by marketers who wish to convey a BS concept without actually making a statement which is untrue (leaving 'em open to legal issues).

I'm not saying this is what Willett is doing by designing this label in this way, only that it is open to interpretation; thus it leaves doubt in my mind as to the true source(s) for the entire contents.

[Kyjd75]

7 minutes ago, Richnimrod said:

I'm not so sure about your conclusion that it's entirely distilled by Willett.   

If one reads this label line-by-line it must be interpreted as saying that is is indeed distilled as well as aged "in Kentucky".   

The next line could mean it's 'Aged and Bottled in KY by Willett'... or it could indicate from the entire label that the contents are merely offered (the implication being that since it's being sold, someone is selling it, and that 'someone' is Willett) "by Willett Distillery" for your drinking pleasure.     ...Or it could mean ... Just what you believe it does.   However, I'd be more certain of that if it was worded more like this: "Contents Entirely Distilled by Willett Distillery at it's facility in Bardstown, KY".     (No commas, line-separations, or other reasons to wonder about the meaning.)

Leaving room for interpretation and equivocation is basic BS strategy used by marketers who wish to convey a BS concept without actually making a statement which is untrue (leaving 'em open to legal issues).

I'm not saying this is what Willett is doing by designing this label in this way, only that it is open to interpretation; thus it leaves doubt in my mind as to the true source(s) for the entire contents.

I think you are overreacting to the language used by Willett.  The language used by Willett is the same for all of its products now being distilled, aged and bottled by Willett.  From my conversations with the folks at Willett during the time of our barrel selections, I am completely satisfied that when Willett says "distilled, aged and bottled in Kentucky by Willett, that is exactly what it means.  Some examples that I know for sure are distilled, aged and bottled in Kentucky by Willett:

 

[Kyjd75]

Ok, thinking about it a little bit more, I see where you are coming from in that the language on the origins of the whiskey is different between the WFEs and the Pure Ky XO.  I don't have any other Willett products at home to compare at the moment.  I will try and get by Packages and More and take a look to see.  But I still think that your position about the language of the Pure Ky XO is more supposition than fact at present.  But, you might be right.  Who knows for sure?

[fishnbowljoe]

They’ve been distilling for over 8 yrs now. With no age statements on their “regular” products, I thinks it only goes to reason that they are bottling mostly their own distillate. 
 

[flahute]

3 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

They’ve been distilling for over 8 yrs now. With no age statements on their “regular” products, I thinks it only goes to reason that they are bottling mostly their own distillate. 
 

I agree and would also add that they do still have sourced barrels on hand but that I can't imagine them blending them in to the KBD line of products because they can sell those sourced barrels as WFE single barrels for an insane amount of money now. Even if the barrels are younger they know how to age them. If they now have enough of their own distillate to support all of their brands, which it seems they do, it is only smart to save the sourced barrels for the people who are willing to spend huge sums of money for them.

[Richnimrod]

Hey, Folx!   I claim zero inside knowledge about Willett's practices.   Nor anyone else's.     

I do however know how to recognize ambiguity when I see it.   Whether or not the ambiguity is intentional, of course I cannot say.    Anybody is entitled to believe whatever they choose about any label, as well.

I do not ask anyone to DIS-believe Willett's label(s), nor to form an opinion that I may hold.   I really do not care.   

Personally, I don't care if their current bottlings of any brand contain all or some or none of their own distillate.   

If it were my distillery, I'd make it plain and certain that it contained all my own distillate.... if I were certain that would be a selling point, or an indicator to the general public of superior quality.

[Kyjd75]

Well, I did a little bit of sleuthing this morning.  First of all, I emailed Willett to see if I could get a statement from them as to origins of their products.  Here is the response I received: 

"Hello Steve,

 

Thank you for reaching out. All of our products that are currently produced are completely distilled, aged, and bottled by Willett distillery on our property in Bardstown Kentucky. 

 

Amber"

I then went by Packages and More and looked at their selection of Willett products.  I found some variation of origin labeling, based, I believe, on the age of the stock on display.  Here is what I found: