4R's SiB awful taste

[liquidbarrels]

Last night went back to this bottle to polish it off. Haven't drank it in awhile as I have been drinking Turkey products and BT as of recently. On the nose smelled fine, but as soon as I sipped it, there was this awful muddy dirt taste is only way I can describe it.. Thought it was me so gave it another go. Again terrible,  it was undrinkable. Poured BT just to make sure it wasnt my palate from something I ate at dinner. BT tasted like it always does. 

 

Has this ever happened to anyone?? Bottle has never left the house, so no temperature fluctuations. I included a pic of barrel no. 

[shuttlenote]

The only thing I can think of is the bottle oxidized given how low you are on that bottle. I had a bottle of Eagle Rare that changed considerably around that mark as well.

[PaulO]

Did it taste OK when you first opened it, or was it always off? 

[liquidbarrels]

1 minute ago, PaulO said:

Did it taste OK when you first opened it, or was it always off? 

No it was good when I first opened it. Drank it neat or on the rocks no problem.

 

Maybe the wife is trying to poison me and have an early retirement.... 

[PaulO]

It sounds like it oxidized.

[ebo]

5 hours ago, liquidbarrels said:

Last night went back to this bottle to polish it off. Haven't drank it in awhile as I have been drinking Turkey products and BT as of recently. On the nose smelled fine, but as soon as I sipped it, there was this awful muddy dirt taste is only way I can describe it.. Thought it was me so gave it another go. Again terrible,  it was undrinkable. Poured BT just to make sure it wasnt my palate from something I ate at dinner. BT tasted like it always does. 

 

Has this ever happened to anyone?? Bottle has never left the house, so no temperature fluctuations. I included a pic of barrel no. 

This used to be one of my favorites. Since Jim Rutledge is no longer the master distiller, the product hasn't been the same, IMO. 

[Phil T]

7 minutes ago, ebo said:

This used to be one of my favorites. Since Jim Rutledge is no longer the master distiller, the product hasn't been the same, IMO. 

Pretty sure JR was gone in July 2015. So, unless they have released really young barrels, this is still his product. 

 

You have encountered some bad products  Eric?

 

Prost!  Phil 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Phil T

[ebo]

1 minute ago, Phil T said:

Pretty sure JR was gone in July 2015. So, unless they have released really young barrels, this is still his product. 

That's true. I haven't had a bottle of the SB that I thought was good in the last few years. I quit buying it. Maybe my taste has changed...lol.

[WhiskeyBlender]

@liquidbarrels, when you say that it has a "muddy dirt" taste, would you say that it is kind of like beet root (i.e., very "earthy")? 

 

Also, do you notice the "muddy dirt" taste is a little more prominent when you add a little water, or ice? 

 

The reason I ask these more pointed questions is that there is a possibility that somewhere during the production process, the Bourbon was contaminated with water that had geosmin in it. Geosmin is essentially a compound that is produced by certain kinds of blue-green algae in surface water after they die. You can think of the smell as being like beets, or catfish, or carp. It could also be an issue with 2-MIB (2 methylisoborneol), which is very similar, but has a little bit more of a musty smell rather than muddy dirt. 

 

Believe it or not, I have seen this in Bourbons before, and in fact, I've consulted on this issue to a few Bourbon distilleries that shall remain nameless. Although I wouldn't say it is a common issue, it is a taint that is very off-putting to say the least. 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

[liquidbarrels]

3 minutes ago, ebo said:

That's true. I haven't had a bottle of the SB that I thought was good in the last few years. I quit buying it. Maybe my taste has changed...lol.

That's what I initially thought too, maybe my palate has changed and dont prefer 4r sib anymore. But, my guess is what shuttle and Paul said, probably oxidized. I'll give it another go, with a fresh bottle. 

[liquidbarrels]

5 minutes ago, WhiskeyBlender said:

@liquidbarrels, when you say that it has a "muddy dirt" taste, would you say that it is kind of like beet root (i.e., very "earthy")? 

 

Also, do you notice the "muddy dirt" taste is a little more prominent when you add a little water, or ice? 

 

The reason I ask these more pointed questions is that there is a possibility that somewhere during the production process, the Bourbon was contaminated with water that had geosmin in it. Geosmin is essentially a compound that is produced by certain kinds of blue-green algae in surface water after they die. You can think of the smell as being like beets, or catfish, or carp. It could also be an issue with 2-MIB (2 methylisoborneol), which is very similar, but has a little bit more of a musty smell rather than muddy dirt. 

 

Believe it or not, I have seen this in Bourbons before, and in fact, I've consulted on this issue to a few Bourbon distilleries that shall remain nameless. Although I wouldn't say it is a common issue, it is a taint that is very off-putting to say the least. 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

Nancy thank you for the insight. Honestly on the nose everything smelled perfectly fine, like what I'm used to 4r smelling like. I tasted it neat, and literally spit it out due to the flavor of that mud/dirt/must; it was so prominent there's no way I wanted to even mix it. Maybe it oxidized like others mentioned. I won't rule 4R's out since they have been a staple in my bar for years. But, if it happens again with a fresh bottle, then I would absolutely consider what you mentioned about the geosmin contamination. 

[PaulO]

2 hours ago, WhiskeyBlender said:

@liquidbarrels, when you say that it has a "muddy dirt" taste, would you say that it is kind of like beet root (i.e., very "earthy")? 

 

Also, do you notice the "muddy dirt" taste is a little more prominent when you add a little water, or ice? 

 

The reason I ask these more pointed questions is that there is a possibility that somewhere during the production process, the Bourbon was contaminated with water that had geosmin in it. Geosmin is essentially a compound that is produced by certain kinds of blue-green algae in surface water after they die. You can think of the smell as being like beets, or catfish, or carp. It could also be an issue with 2-MIB (2 methylisoborneol), which is very similar, but has a little bit more of a musty smell rather than muddy dirt. 

 

Believe it or not, I have seen this in Bourbons before, and in fact, I've consulted on this issue to a few Bourbon distilleries that shall remain nameless. Although I wouldn't say it is a common issue, it is a taint that is very off-putting to say the least. 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

Nancy,

Would this type of contamination occur due to the water that is used to lower proof prior to bottling?

[Sgtspitter101]

That is funny as i opened a bottle of mm private select tonight with a musty sort of mossy or wet wood taste. Hoping this will change after the bottle is opened a day or 2. It is a pick by blue line reserve. 

[Kepler]

10 hours ago, liquidbarrels said:

Last night went back to this bottle to polish it off. Haven't drank it in awhile as I have been drinking Turkey products and BT as of recently. On the nose smelled fine, but as soon as I sipped it, there was this awful muddy dirt taste is only way I can describe it.. Thought it was me so gave it another go. Again terrible,  it was undrinkable. Poured BT just to make sure it wasnt my palate from something I ate at dinner. BT tasted like it always does. 

 

Has this ever happened to anyone?? Bottle has never left the house, so no temperature fluctuations. I included a pic of barrel no. 

 

 That bottle is almost empty, how did the majority of the bottle taste to you?

 

Yes I've experienced tainted single barrel bourbons before (not Four Roses but rather other brands)  BUT those were nasty FROM THE START.

 

To me anyway, simple bottle oxidation does not explain the radical taste difference you are reporting here.

 

I also highly doubt the difference between Master distillers as an explanation. Minor changes sure, but this? Ridiculous.

 

It's probably your palate or something going on with your memory of this bottle ( ? )

[Cornmuse]

10 hours ago, WhiskeyBlender said:

@liquidbarrels, when you say that it has a "muddy dirt" taste, would you say that it is kind of like beet root (i.e., very "earthy")? 

 

Also, do you notice the "muddy dirt" taste is a little more prominent when you add a little water, or ice? 

 

The reason I ask these more pointed questions is that there is a possibility that somewhere during the production process, the Bourbon was contaminated with water that had geosmin in it. Geosmin is essentially a compound that is produced by certain kinds of blue-green algae in surface water after they die. You can think of the smell as being like beets, or catfish, or carp. It could also be an issue with 2-MIB (2 methylisoborneol), which is very similar, but has a little bit more of a musty smell rather than muddy dirt. 

 

Believe it or not, I have seen this in Bourbons before, and in fact, I've consulted on this issue to a few Bourbon distilleries that shall remain nameless. Although I wouldn't say it is a common issue, it is a taint that is very off-putting to say the least. 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

This is an interesting explanation.  I had purchased a bottle of vodka (don't judge) from a Tampa distillery.  Kept in the freezer after opening and made a screwdriver with fresh squeezed OJ one morning - undrinkable!  Tasted like moldy paper.  It was the vodka, which I thought "okay" on first sampling.  Certainly didn't taste like the $28 of swill I poured down the drain several weeks later.  Considering the FL climate and battle with algae...

[liquidbarrels]

8 hours ago, Kepler said:

 That bottle is almost empty, how did the majority of the bottle taste to you?

 

Yes I've experienced tainted single barrel bourbons before (not Four Roses but rather other brands)  BUT those were nasty FROM THE START.

 

To me anyway, simple bottle oxidation does not explain the radical taste difference you are reporting here.

 

I also highly doubt the difference between Master distillers as an explanation. Minor changes sure, but this? Ridiculous.

 

It's probably your palate or something going on with your memory of this bottle ( ? )

From the start tasted fine honestly, I mainly drank it on the rocks but would drink neat at times (depending on mood). Tasted it neat the other night and wham! mud in the mouth. I have had bourbon's sit on my shelf for as long as 3 years with maybe 2 pours left in them (1.75 MM and 750 of WT101), and when I go to finish off the bottle still tastes fine. I'm definitely not ruling out 4R like I said, they have been in my bar for years. Maybe it's my palate like you mentioned because as of the last few months I have been mainly drinking BT and WT101

Edited August 15, 2020 by liquidbarrels

[Kepler]

3 hours ago, liquidbarrels said:

From the start tasted fine honestly, I mainly drank it on the rocks but would drink neat at times (depending on mood). Tasted it neat the other night and wham! mud in the mouth. I have had bourbon's sit on my shelf for as long as 3 years with maybe 2 pours left in them (1.75 MM and 750 of WT101), and when I go to finish off the bottle still tastes fine. I'm definitely not ruling out 4R like I said, they have been in my bar for years. Maybe it's my palate like you mentioned because as of the last few months I have been mainly drinking BT and WT101

Yeah that's a mystery for sure. Probably not just your palate from what you're experiencing. Maybe the bottle got tainted wirh something accidentally after you opened it?  Best to just pour it out maybe.

[parksmart]

Hmmm.  Might wanna check if the significant other recently took out some life insurance policies on you?

 

 

Just messing with ya........ 

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 8/14/2020 at 8:15 PM, PaulO said:

Nancy,

Would this type of contamination occur due to the water that is used to lower proof prior to bottling?

@PaulO, that's definitely a major source for it, but there are other ways it can contaminate the whiskey as well.  

[liquidbarrels]

On 8/15/2020 at 8:47 PM, parksmart said:

Hmmm.  Might wanna check if the significant other recently took out some life insurance policies on you?

 

 

Just messing with ya........ 

That was a thought when i first encountered this mystery