How many chances do you give it?

[Flyfish]

I was in the swing having the last two pours of Yellowstone (Barrel 1808604 exclusively selected by Ferrigno Reserve on 10/17/19) and got to thinking about the first time I had Yellowstone. It was at Yellowstone in 1985 and "exclusively selected" merely because we were actually at Yellowstone. In 1985, the stuff was, generously speaking, swill. The single barrel just finished was quite adequate. Didn't blow my socks off but way better than in 1985. I know. Not the same bourbon at all but a resurrected label. Still, it got me to thinking about the bourbons I have sincerely tried to like over the years because they have such a loyal following. Right now I am thinking about FRSB. Was impressed at the distillery back in 2010 but the bottle I bought and consumed at home was OK and little more. Every year or so since then I have tried a bottle because at less than $40 or even less than $30 there was not much to lose. I expect bourbons to be far more consistent than my palate. That is, I don't expect them to get much better but I do recognize that my palate has evolved over time. I would hate to miss out on a wonderful experience today  just because I wasn't ready for it 10 years ago.  A long time ago I tried a bottle of Old Crow because, what the hell, there was not much to lose. Still not ready to do that again no matter how cheap.

So, what have you found that you eventually grew into and how many "second chances" did it require for you to appreciate all its virtues?  

[PhantomLamb]

Honestly, OGDBIB took me 3 tries. The trick for me was to give it some air time and it opened up beautifully. Lost the sharp, peppery notes from the high rye and really mellowed out.

 

As a sipper or mixer, I love it now.

[Radioyada]

One chance for a first impression is all a bottle gets for me.  If I like it there is the possibility more will be purchased.  If it is not liked from the start that is it.  Either that bottle gets given away or ends up being a drain pour (fortunately only one bottle has had that pleasure) and is never purchased again.  There are far too many bottles and brands that suit my taste buds available around me to waste time and space with bottles that may or may not grow on me.  

[fishnbowljoe]

For me, it usually comes down to the three strike rule. Every once in a great while there might be a foul ball, but usually it’s three strikes and you’re out.

 

Biba! Joe

[FasterHorses]

No official rule but probably 3-4 before i give up. My friend who thinks everything is really good (except Dickel BiB) reaps the benefits when i give up on a bottle. Im about to gift him my Redemption BP 10yr High Rye Bourbon. Although I loved the Rye, the Bourbon was not exactly. He’ll be ecstatic. 

[fishnbowljoe]

9 hours ago, FasterHorses said:

No official rule but probably 3-4 before i give up. My friend who thinks everything is really good (except Dickel BiB) reaps the benefits when i give up on a bottle. Im about to gift him my Redemption BP 10yr High Rye Bourbon. Although I loved the Rye, the Bourbon was not exactly. He’ll be ecstatic. 

It’s nice being able to find bottles new homes with friends or family. I used to give Galvin0791 all my rejects......I mean ones that I thought he might like that I didn’t.  However, he’s seen through me, and now says no thanks to some things. 

 

Biba! Joe

[Jazz June]

On 9/7/2020 at 9:03 PM, FasterHorses said:

No official rule but probably 3-4 before i give up. My friend who thinks everything is really good (except Dickel BiB) reaps the benefits when i give up on a bottle. Im about to gift him my Redemption BP 10yr High Rye Bourbon. Although I loved the Rye, the Bourbon was not exactly. He’ll be ecstatic. 

I cannot get into the Redemption high rye 10 BP either. Even with a lot of air, it is just not coming around. Very disappointing.

 

On topic, I like to go through a whole bottle before forming a strong opinion, but I’m not likely to buy a second if I didn’t enjoy the first. Too much good stuff to drink to mess with stuff I didn’t like. Single barrel products may get more consideration though.

[afmadd]

On 9/9/2020 at 7:33 PM, Jazz June said:

I cannot get into the Redemption high rye 10 BP either. Even with a lot of air, it is just not coming around. Very disappointing.

 

On topic, I like to go through a whole bottle before forming a strong opinion, but I’m not likely to buy a second if I didn’t enjoy the first. Too much good stuff to drink to mess with stuff I didn’t like. Single barrel products may get more consideration though.

This is my mo as well.  If I drink a whole bottle, I really feel I've made up my mind about it.  No way that I would make up my mind after one pour.  My palate is way too untrustworthy for that.....  Though the three strike rule, mentioned above, is probably spot on.

[B.B. Babington]

On 9/7/2020 at 3:42 PM, Flyfish said:

.... I expect bourbons to be far more consistent than my palate. ...

 

I've learned neither whiskey nor palate consistent. 

 

Whiskey can vary greatly from year to year and even from bottle to bottle.  I've found BT and WT to be more consistent and HH less so.  Sometimes EWSB varies greatly from one bottle to the next one on the shelf the same day, barrel dates separated by only half a month or so.  I've also found my palate to be very inconsistent, even from one night to the next or even progression in single evening.  Tonight I found ER10 to be far less enjoyable than usual and really getting into a ECBP that normally I do not like.  

[parksmart]

Totally agree that you can never know what you get from year to year, and sometimes even bottle to bottle.  From multiple bottles, I felt the 2018 OF Birthday Bourbon was a great whiskey.  Then from 3 different bottles at 3 different locations, I felt the 2019 OFBB was hot garbage.   
 

  

[GaryT]

If I've bought the bottle and I don't like it, depends what I paid and how much I didn't like it.  First bottle of Bookers I bought I did not care for; thought it was a hot mess for the first 3-4 pours from it.  Rather than dump or force it down, I put it in the back of the cabinet and forgot about it for a year or more.  Come to find out that my palate wasn't quite ready for higher proof drams yet (or it just really opened up with some air time - although I think it is more likely me rather than the bourbon).  I absolutely loved the rest of that bottle, and bought several more before the price hike.  If a bottle is just nauseating, I'll offer it to friends or just dump it down the drain.  I don't bother trying to put the energy into "figuring out how to consume " bad whiskey.  If I'm taking the caloric hit - I want to enjoy it.  The money has been spent, so I look at that as water under the bridge at that point.

 

As a rule, if I don't care for something, I note what I don't like about it and set it aside for a while.  Sometimes my impressions change over time and I come to enjoy it.  If not, depending what it is - I'll mix it in cocktails, or dump it.  Typically if I'm on the fence, I'll go through 1/3 of the bottle over 2-3 years before dumping (at that point I look at it like "If I don't like it yet, what are the odds that is going to change").

[k-train]

I try to do as much research ahead of time as I can: reading reviews, asking folks I know IRL & in online forums/groups, etc. That usually gives me a pretty good idea beforehand whether or not something seems like it's going to be agreeable with my palate.

I also have a notebook where I write down things I've had, as well as things I'd like to try. I give the bottles I've had a rating: "+" for something that was good and worth having again at some point, "++" for bottles that I really enjoyed and need to be staples of my bar, and then "-" for things that were either not enjoyable at all, or at were just OK, but not something I'd ever feel like I needed to purchase again. That helps me remember whether or not a bourbon I haven't had in a while is worth revisiting.

As for how I get to those grades, I feel like I have a pretty good read after I've gone through an entire bottle. With things like single barrel releases, I feel like you probably have to get through at least two bottles from different barrels before you can come to any sort of conclusion. Additionally, I'll often make notes if a bottle starts out kinda mediocre, but really takes off once it opens up a bit. That way I know what to expect next time if it's one I plan to buy again.

[IamMatt]

I am still quite new to this but if I try a new bottle, I will give it quite a few chances, at least because I know it will open up over time.  I have several bottles that were meh at first that are quite nice a few months later.

 

But if that bottle never gets better for me, I would be very unlikely to buy another bottle down the road "just to see."  I might try a different expression down the road, but not the same one I already rejected. 

 

Just staring at the bourbon aisle of a big-box liquor store reminds me that there are too many good whiskeys available to go back to one that I already haven't liked.  Also, I am very comfortable that there are bourbons that have "a loyal following" that I just don't care for.  Everyone's palate is different.

 

 

[StarSurfer55]

I usually give a bottle  three tries at least 2 days apartbefore passing judgment. I am still working on smooth ambler big level. It is still not clicking for me. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by StarSurfer55

[flahute]

6 hours ago, StarSurfer55 said:

I usually give a bottle  three tries at least 2 days apartbefore passing judgment. I am still working on smooth ambler big level. It is still not clicking for me. 

Big Level was so bad and it ruined cocktails. It was a drain pour for me.

[Harry in WashDC]

On 9/7/2020 at 3:42 PM, Flyfish said:

I was in the swing having the last two pours of Yellowstone (Barrel 1808604 exclusively selected by Ferrigno Reserve on 10/17/19) and got to thinking about the first time I had Yellowstone. It was at Yellowstone in 1985 and "exclusively selected" merely because we were actually at Yellowstone. In 1985, the stuff was, generously speaking, swill. The single barrel just finished was quite adequate. Didn't blow my socks off but way better than in 1985. I know. Not the same bourbon at all but a resurrected label. Still, it got me to thinking about the bourbons I have sincerely tried to like over the years because they have such a loyal following. Right now I am thinking about FRSB. Was impressed at the distillery back in 2010 but the bottle I bought and consumed at home was OK and little more. Every year or so since then I have tried a bottle because at less than $40 or even less than $30 there was not much to lose. I expect bourbons to be far more consistent than my palate. That is, I don't expect them to get much better but I do recognize that my palate has evolved over time. I would hate to miss out on a wonderful experience today  just because I wasn't ready for it 10 years ago.  A long time ago I tried a bottle of Old Crow because, what the hell, there was not much to lose. Still not ready to do that again no matter how cheap.

So, what have you found that you eventually grew into and how many "second chances" did it require for you to appreciate all its virtues?  

OLD CROW!!!  Slowly, I turn, step by step; inch by inch . . .

[Harry in WashDC]

6 hours ago, StarSurfer55 said:

I usually give a bottle  three tries at least 2 days apartbefore passing judgment. I am still working on smooth ambler big level. It is still not clicking for me. 

A quick search on SB of the phrase, "Big Level" will turn on a fairly recent discussion of it.  I was an early adopter based on my experience with SA's Yearling - its wheated which I think was its first self-distilled release.  Yearling, of course, was "young".  Unfortunately, and I still have one unopened 750 of BL, BL never grew up.  It still shows promise, though. (He typed hopefully.)

 

EDIT - Oh, yeah - the Thread.  I drink everything until its bottle is empty - craft, off-brands, NDPs with marginal reputations, etc.  BUT, if nothing makes it potable by the half-way mark, I use it to clean out the kitchen sink trap.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Harry in WashDC
DUH!!!

[PaulO]

If I think something doesn't taste good to me, I'm one and done.

As others have mentioned, single barrel selections can have some leeway.  If I thought a single barrel selection was just OK, it might get another chance from a different barrel.  If something is pricey, I better see the clouds part and hear choirs of angels.  At this point in my journey, the old standbys (WT 101, VOB 100, EW BIB) are hard to beat.

[IamMatt]

So here's my (relative newbie) update on some bottles that I gave multiple chances to:

 

1) Old Grand Dad 114.  First few tries my son and I agreed it was not bad, just not much to it, and DEFINITELY better bottles in its price range.  I have tried it once s month or so and it is getting better.  I just had a swig tonight and it was not bad, went from a bottle I would have given away to one I will keep.  I am unlikely to buy another bottle, though, since for me, there are better bottles to spend $30 on.

 

2) Maker's Mark Cask Strength.  First sip I almost spit it out.  I found it undrinkable, just really nasty tasting.  Had a friend over and he liked it; I considered letting it leave with him.  Tried it a month or two later and still found it awful.  Tried a sip tonight and it was not bad.  I will try it again, but I suspect I will not replace it for the same reason; too many $40 bottles I really like.  But this is another one that went form a bottle I would give away to a bottle I might continue trying.

 

3) Woodinville SBW 90 proof.  Bought it because of the 2020 Best Bourbon win.  Found it uninteresting.  Nothing wrong with it, Just not much to it, kind of dull.   Tried it many time since, same thing.  Just had a sip tonight, same thing.  Nothing wrong with it, jut not much flavor, complexity, or finish.  Another bottle I will not replace at the price (readily available where I am); too many bottles I prefer in the high-$30 range.  Fortunately, it's one of my son's favorites.

 

4) Hirsch the Horizon:  I actually posted about this before.  First pour had such a strong Flintstone vitamin note I thought it had to be Dickel juice instead of MGP.  Found it undrinkable.  A month later, same thing.  My son tried it and loved it.  I just had a sip tonight (first time tasting it is about 4 months) and the vitamin not is gone, and it's not bad.  Still not one of my favorites, but I am finishing the glass I poured.

 

5) Buffalo Trace (What?  Blasphemy!)  This one for me was like Woodinville.  Nothing wrong with it at all, just not that much to it.  Better bottles to be had in the mid-$20 range for me.  Tried it several times over the last few months and feel pretty much the same.  Tried it again tonight (jeez, how much is this guy drinking tonight?) and it's still OK, not one I would likely replace.

 

What is my takeaway from all this?  Two things, really, though they are related.   First, it's worth trying a bottle several times over a period of time.  Second, I am believing more and more that many bottles benefit GREATLY from opening up after being opened.  So far, I have not had any that got worse.

 

This is related to my post here, so I am linking the two.

[Harry in WashDC]

MATT!  Nice post.  RE: the OGD 114 - neat and room temp it is ALWAYS hot, one dimensional, oily, and HOT!

 

Even if you put 2 ounces in a glass and let it sit for a few minutes, its aroma will FILL the room with ambrosia and fruit, but a quick - too BIG - sip will BURN!

 

So, why do I have several 12-bottle cases in my bunker? Because I bought them at about $22 per 750 when nobody wanted it because it was one dimensional and HOT!  AND, how do I drink them?  Carefully.  Practice and the StraightBourbon "calculator" on the home page lets me add JUST ENOUGH water to 2 ounces to drop the proof to about 105.  I let THAT sit for about five minutes then sip through an hour or so of TV.

 

Note well (you English majors know that as "nota bene" or "N.B."), I ALWAYS let it sit about five or so minutes after adding the water (or equivalent ice in the Summer).  That's a nod to allowing the bottle to benefit greatly from being opened.  OGD 114 needs it.

 

Hope this helps.

 

EDIT - BTW, I have been unable to make OGD 100 out of OGD 114 by adding sufficient water to the 114 to drop its proof to 100.  HENCE, I surmise that whomever at BEAM is picking the barrels for 114 does so knowing they can't be dumped and diluted to make OGD BIB.  It doesn't make them "bad'; it just makes them "other".

Edited February 28, 2021 by Harry in WashDC
OH!! YEAH . . . !!

[flahute]

13 hours ago, Harry in WashDC said:

EDIT - BTW, I have been unable to make OGD 100 out of OGD 114 by adding sufficient water to the 114 to drop its proof to 100.  HENCE, I surmise that whomever at BEAM is picking the barrels for 114 does so knowing they can't be dumped and diluted to make OGD BIB.  It doesn't make them "bad'; it just makes them "other".

I would not at all be surprised if this is true. They taste like different whiskies to me and I often find myself preferring the BIB.

[bayouredd]

If at 1st a bust, I will go back sometimes months later. If I make it to the end and still don't care much, it is written off. (i.e. Bulleit Select)

 

I did however really dislike my 1st ER; but the ladies in my life liked it, so it got another try. I have thoroughly enjoyed every one since...