What is BT Thinking?

[Bob_Loblaw]

2 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

You are my hero Ben. Thank you so much for this post, and your truly unbiased viewpoint. 

 

22 minutes ago, AlfaLarreo said:

  I just don’t think there products (other then BTAC) are better than many other distilleries to justify time to hunt them or pay secondary market prices.   

 

I will TAKE that compliment!  I have a 5 & 3 year old and let me tell you Mama is currently the only hero in the house!!

 

I will go on record as saying I support the legacy's in general.  Simply put, bourbon is a product that takes a LONG time to develop and they have been doing it forever.  Some of the craft's may very well get there, I have my eye on a few, but they are not there yet.  As for bias, ehhhhhhh  . . . not sure I have none as I am speaking from a position of having all the BT  allocated offerings on my bar. 

 

To @AlfaLarreo I completely agree.  None of these bottles are worth the secondary prices, focus on what is available.   And I agree that the BT products are not head and shoulders above the others.  They are on par with the other legacies.  I probably drink the most WT by volume.  4R is the most "complete" portfolio to me.  I can't find a flaw or hole in the entire lineup from Beige label to the Barrel proof, if someone brings me a 4R bottle I am HAPPY.  BT is great and probably the most crowd pleasing not just on hype, but their bourbons are just so drinkable.  HH becomes odd man out in my top three, but that is like a 12 win team missing the NFL playoffs, they make GREAT whiskey.  And the right MGP . . . oh baby.  And I have no even touched on BF, MM both of who make great pours.  Oh wow, or even Beam.  So much fantastic bourbon out there.

 

 

[BigSkyDrams]

7 hours ago, Bob_Loblaw said:

As for pricing, I think they are actually doing it right.  I do not think BT is going for the short term boom money grab, but rather positioning themselves to capture a huge future market share.  The demand will be there for years as supply starts to catch up.  I have already seen so much more WSR on shelves (vs back room)  in the past 12 months then the previous 2 years.  I think it will be very hard for crafts and other's who have been pricing higher during this boom to compete down the road with their $70 plus bottles. 

I had some posts about them chasing profits, so to the extent this was directed at me, this is actually exactly what I was trying to convey — not that they are being short sighted. I think their stakeholders have to be thrilled that their products fly off the shelves almost universally, in which case they must be generating so much revenue as is it would be hard for someone to complain about not pricing them slightly higher. I too think they’re playing the long game, and when their supply starts to catch up they are liable to run some other distillers, or at least brands, straight out of business. 
 

Excellent post all around. Well said.

[AlfaLarreo]

1 hour ago, Bob_Loblaw said:

 

 

I will TAKE that compliment!  I have a 5 & 3 year old and let me tell you Mama is currently the only hero in the house!!

 

I will go on record as saying I support the legacy's in general.  Simply put, bourbon is a product that takes a LONG time to develop and they have been doing it forever.  Some of the craft's may very well get there, I have my eye on a few, but they are not there yet.  As for bias, ehhhhhhh  . . . not sure I have none as I am speaking from a position of having all the BT  allocated offerings on my bar. 

 

To @AlfaLarreo I completely agree.  None of these bottles are worth the secondary prices, focus on what is available.   And I agree that the BT products are not head and shoulders above the others.  They are on par with the other legacies.  I probably drink the most WT by volume.  4R is the most "complete" portfolio to me.  I can't find a flaw or hole in the entire lineup from Beige label to the Barrel proof, if someone brings me a 4R bottle I am HAPPY.  BT is great and probably the most crowd pleasing not just on hype, but their bourbons are just so drinkable.  HH becomes odd man out in my top three, but that is like a 12 win team missing the NFL playoffs, they make GREAT whiskey.  And the right MGP . . . oh baby.  And I have no even touched on BF, MM both of who make great pours.  Oh wow, or even Beam.  So much fantastic bourbon out there.

 

 

Maybe I’m an oddity, but I really don’t have any allegiance to a distillery/brand.  I did early on with BT, 4R, and KBD.  I still like almost everything 4R, but that’s about it.  I was a huge KBD fan and loved their brands but with their own juice they just haven’t maintained the quality.  I am hoping that a few more years will allow them to get back to what arguably were the best sourced and blended bourbons ever. 

Now I’m just someone that’s been drinking bourbon for a long time and know the profile I like and search it out.  Sometimes that’s an old dependable like Booker’s, but more frequently it’s the search for a great bourbon regardless of brand.  I depend a lot on reviews of trusted sources to find them.  I never bought a Jefferson’s Ocean before a year ago, then they released a couple wheated voyages and a cask strength that met my profile, so I picked them up.  Voyage 21 cask strength is a very good bourbon that rivals many allocated offerings.  Same thing happened with the Barrell releases.

 

At my first Kentucky Bourbon Festival I went to the Let’s Talk Bourbon Breakfast at 4R with Jim Rutledge.  When I got to talk to him after his presentation and asked him how he liked to drink his bourbon he said just like this, which was in a plastic cup on ice.  And then he said something I’ll always remember “that’s the great thing about bourbon, you’re never wrong.”  I couldn’t agree more, none of us are wrong.

[PaulO]

Whenever the topic of BT comes up, I feel a bit conflicted.  Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, I was a big OWA fan.  After it lost the seven year age statement, some batches did taste younger to me - like bourbon flavored vodka (almost no nose).  I can't find it at all now, and if I did, no way I'd pay the new MSRP of $50.

BT mash bill #1 brands I find just OK.  The flagship BT Bourbon sort of has a finish like flat Pepsi Cola.  It's a little sweet.  That's it.  No spice or anything to contemplate.

I can't say a few more years aging has always improved ER.

The Age International brands (mash bill #2) used to appeal to me.  Again, these won't be offered for sale to me, or I wouldn't pay the new prices.  No worries, as I suspect ages have been slipping here too.

[Old Hippie]

On 1/4/2021 at 5:45 PM, fishnbowljoe said:

Thanks for the insightful post Old Hippie. Much appreciated. I guess I’m a bit jaded living in Illinois. It’s the land of taxes and crooked politicians, and as I’ve said numerous times before here, “Where our former governors make our license plates.”  

 

Biba! Joe

Oh I totally understand, I was referring to SC

Good luck and I enjoy your insights

[smokinjoe]

Perhaps, thinking too much of this...

[0895]

On 1/5/2021 at 6:37 PM, AlfaLarreo said:

 

I can tell you for a fact that before Blanton’s and ER were allocated everywhere they couldn’t be found in Missouri.  I could go to Illinois or Kansas at the time and see it on the shelf, but I couldn’t get it here.  

Not sure how far back you’re referring, but Blanton’s was easily available in 2012 when I started buying it.

Granted I had to go to the more wealthy parts of town to find it, but it was easy to find.

I don’t remember it disappearing until early 2016.  There would be gaps in availability, but it would show up on shelves regularly.

Eagle Rare was easily available if you checked around enough (mostly grocery stores) until 2019.

 

Now they are both lottery bottles in STL.

[0895]

16 hours ago, PaulO said:

 

The Age International brands (mash bill #2) used to appeal to me.  Again, these won't be offered for sale to me, or I wouldn't pay the new prices.  No worries, as I suspect ages have been slipping here too.

The last couple store pick Blanton’s here (where I got to see the Barrel head) were 6 years and change.

[AlfaLarreo]

1 minute ago, 0895 said:

Not sure how far back you’re referring, but Blanton’s was easily available in 2012 when I started buying it.

Granted I had to go to the more wealthy parts of town to find it, but it was easy to find.

I don’t remember it disappearing until early 2016.  There would be gaps in availability, but it would show up on shelves regularly.

Eagle Rare was easily available if you checked around enough (mostly grocery stores) until 2019.

 

Now they are both lottery bottles in STL.

2 minutes ago, 0895 said:

Not sure how far back you’re referring, but Blanton’s was easily available in 2012 when I started buying it.

Granted I had to go to the more wealthy parts of town to find it, but it was easy to find.

I don’t remember it disappearing until early 2016.  There would be gaps in availability, but it would show up on shelves regularly.

Eagle Rare was easily available if you checked around enough (mostly grocery stores) until 2019.

 

Now they are both lottery bottles in STL.

Right, and in 2017 you could walk into a liquor store in other states and find both of them.

[0895]

1 minute ago, AlfaLarreo said:

 

Gotcha.

 

Honestly at that point I had stopped buying US Blanton’s, so probably didn’t notice.

 

One really bad Blanton’s in December of 2015 made me stop buying it completely in favor of getting “Gold” & “SFTB” regularly from the U.K.

 

that train derailed in 2018 I believe (Thanks a lot Fed Ex )

 

Now I got no tricks left.

Oh Well.

[AlfaLarreo]

1 minute ago, 0895 said:

Gotcha.

 

Honestly at that point I had stopped buying US Blanton’s, so probably didn’t notice.

 

One really bad Blanton’s in December of 2015 made me stop buying it completely in favor of getting “Gold” & “SFTB” regularly from the U.K.

 

that train derailed in 2018 I believe (Thanks a lot Fed Ex )

 

Now I got no tricks left.

Oh Well.

I did also, but looked for it when I was out of town to see if what I had heard about distribution of BT products in Missouri was true.