Is WT “high rye?”

[Charlutz]

When I started my bourbon journey about 10 years ago it took me awhile to embrace WT. The sweeter stuff was easier for me to start with, but WT grew on me to where I now always have some 101, WTRB and 101 rye open. One of the things that got me to embrace the rye spice of WT was a scene in the fun boom documentary Bourbontucky where Jimmy Russell explains and demonstrates how he likes to taste bourbon, including his famous Kentucky chew and insisting that the “spice” is a necessary part of a representative bourbon.
 

There’s no doubt that WT has a strong rye spice flavor, both the bourbon and the rye, when compared to other whiskeys.  It came as a surprise to me that the mash bills were fairly low % in rye. 75/13/12 for the bourbon and at 37/51/12, the rye was “barely legal.” I made this “discovery” for myself maybe back in 2016 or 2017 and from that time thought of WT as “rye forward” rather than “high rye” because, well, math. There were “real” high rye whiskeys out there like 4R B mashbills, MGP and OGD. I probably “corrected” posters on here when they called WT high rye. (Sorry, belatedly.) The rye forward flavor I concluded (rightly?) probably came from the WT yeast strains (the spectrum of 4R PS flavor led me here) or google said it could be that WT takes “wider cuts” during distillation, which is beyond my understanding. I thought I had my “answer” and the question of whether WT was high rye no longer kept me up at night. Until...
 

Today I opened a fresh bottle of 101 and noticed for the first time (I happened to have my glasses on) that it says “high rye” right there on the neck label. Mind blown. Jimmy and Eddie think their whiskey IS “high rye” so who am I to tell them otherwise?

 

What say you? Is WT high rye? Is it the taste or the mash bill that rules for you?

 

I am not asking for a ruling or definitive answer, so much as I’m interested in hearing your opinions as to how you feel about it. No wrong answers. I love the bourbon journey and even into my second decade, love even more that my appreciation for bourbon can still evolve. My excess use of quotes above should indicate that I’m open to lots of ways to look at this. Peace  

Edited April 2, 2021 by Charlutz

[PaulO]

I would say that WT is made in a way that allows the flavor of rye to come through, even if the percentage is not incredibly high.  

Here's another way to think about it, a style that features or enhances the rye component.

It is true, while 51% or more of a Bourbon mash bill must be corn, rye is not obligatory.  Some Bourbons have zero rye.

[Harry in WashDC]

Like you, Chas, I used to pay attention to the "high rye" vs. "low rye" monikers on bourbon but concluded quite awhile ago that bourbon flavors are too complex to break them into two broad categories.  ONE (and only one) source listing likely mash bills for lots of bourbons is

 

https://modernthirst.com/home/bourbon-whiskey-mash-bills/

 

NOTE WELL!! - One can compare WT KSBW's listed mash bill of 75 corn, 13 rye, 12 malted barley [edit - WHICH!!] is pretty close to DOZENS of other major brands that, to me, do not taste alike.  I surmise the differences can be accounted for by different entry proofs, different exit proofs, vagaries of ware/rick/store - housing, rotation (or not) during such housing, different barrel chars, and the palate/chem lab/gut feeling when barrels are dumped and then placed in tuns prior to bottling.

 

I offer but one example, based on my love for Saz/BT's basic BT (supposedly the higher [edit - RYE!!!] mash bill) which I find sweet like candy apple rather than grassy/grainy/spicy like WT which suposedly has a VERY similar mash bill.

 

IN SUM - I no longer fret over what's in there - if it tastes good, I drink it more than once.  If it tastes great, I buy a lot.  AND, I've now had enough of just about everything available out there regularly to have a subconsciously accessed database that tells me, more often than not, "Skip this, but buy that."

Edited April 2, 2021 by Harry in WashDC

[B.B. Babington]

Like what Harry said.  And I've recently moved away from age preference.  I've found some younguns quite good and some old timers sour, bitter, or just plain lacking.  I just drink it, and if'n it pleases, I get more.

[Kepler]

On 4/1/2021 at 9:25 PM, PaulO said:

I would say that WT is made in a way that allows the flavor of rye to come through, even if the percentage is not incredibly high.  

Here's another way to think about it, a style that features or enhances the rye component.

 

It's a very interesting topic raised by Charlutz and I can't think of a better way of putting it than this by Paul. Even though the WT mashbill might not contain as much rye content relatively speaking to other "high rye" bourbons, something about how Wild Turkey is made really allows the rye spice to sing.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Kepler

[Paddy]

‘Alligator’ char.

[fishnbowljoe]

7 minutes ago, Paddy said:

‘Alligator’ char.

You sure it’s not crocodile char Pat?

 

Biba! Joe

[Charlutz]

Thanks guys! Harry, great link. It’s the BT mash bill 2 that’s the higher rye mash bill, though as a percentage still relatively low. That “discovery” also surprised me back in the day. I find everything from BT to be sweet (in a way that I like).

[ebo]

I'm a big fan of WT101. I know it says high rye on the label. I personally don't find much rye taste in it, and I don't particularly find it to be all that spicy. To me, it just tastes like a solid Bourbon should. Just goes to show that different people taste different things... one does not fit all in the Bourbon world!

[smokinjoe]

I don’t sweat over these types of things.  All I knows is if Mr. Jimmy call it high rye, Imma call it high rye.  

[bayouredd]

This was a good question by Charlutz as I have wondered the same, but never thought to ask...

Also a great answer by PaulO as well as others...

 

[Harry in WashDC]

7 hours ago, ebo said:

I'm a big fan of WT101. I know it says high rye on the label. I personally don't find much rye taste in it, and I don't particularly find it to be all that spicy. To me, it just tastes like a solid Bourbon should. Just goes to show that different people taste different things... one does not fit all in the Bourbon world!

Yup.  Lately, I've been sipping on WT 101 several nights a week and on OGD BIB some other nights.  Neither strikes me as "high rye" although both have that reputation.  And, speaking of rye, a couple years ago, we all had a discussion on SB about Pikesville Rye when it first came out (at, I think 90+ proof, now only available at 110 proof).  Like its HH relation Rittenhouse, it is "barely" a rye - 51% rye, 39% corn, 10% malted barley.  My guess is that WT's marketers stuck "High Rye" on the WT because "rye" is a thing for some consumers of American whiskey - think Tater, not that there's anything wrong with being a Tater because we all were one once, I betcha.

 

Now, "high rye" to me is something like Bullieitt Rye; that is, 95% rye and 5% barley malt or a reasonable equivalent fermenter, almost always sourced from MGP in Indiana.

[flahute]

Wild Turkey's yeast, which provides a more spicy character than most bourbons, is often mistaken for the general characteristic of "high rye" even though its rye content is not necessarily high rye compared to many other bourbons.

[Kepler]

14 hours ago, ebo said:

I'm a big fan of WT101. I know it says high rye on the label. I personally don't find much rye taste in it, and I don't particularly find it to be all that spicy. To me, it just tastes like a solid Bourbon should. Just goes to show that different people taste different things... one does not fit all in the Bourbon world!

 

Ebo makes some important points about Wild Turkey.

 

On the one hand I love the "spicy-forward" flavor of WT101 and the better Russell's Reserve and other Wikd Turkey offerings.

 

On the other hand, one of the things that I love most about WT101 is the incredible balance that it offers.  Yes, spiciness is a hallmark of Wild Turkey bourbon, but sometimes we overlook the incredible vanilla, caramel, and oak notes that the 101 expression gives us, all at the same time as it presents the spiciness. 

 

For me, there is no other bourbon under the ~$50 price level that better combines the sweet vanilla/caramel side of bourbon with the spicy/rye side as well as Wild Turkey 101.  

[BigRich]

I think that at the end of the day, “high rye” like “small batch” is not a regulated or defined term and thus marketing speak.  I don’t mean that in a derogatory way.  I just mean that you shouldn’t put much stock in it. If you like the bourbon then that is all that matters.

[PaulO]

I suppose I'd only have a problem with that term if there was no rye in the mash bill.