Best tasting inexpensive bourbon?

[Gillman]

Mike, thanks for your previous note by the way re Sam. I did see your post about grain bills and aging as viewed in the early 1900's. I didn't however mean my comment in a technical sense but simply that in terms of how the majority view bourbon, today and for a long time, the wheated recipe and other variants from a mashbill incorporating some rye are not typical, don't deliver the "expected" taste. In Sam's book, when a distillery (that he is aware of) used an unusual mashbill, he says so, e.g., Pogue as mentioned recently by Chuck, or Poindexter (unmalted barley in the small grains). I infer that almost all bourbon discussed in the book, save where specified to be rye whiskey, was a combo of mostly corn and rye grists and that formula has certainly survived as the main taste preference today (especially if we include JD). I accept your point, which is very interesting, that "bourbon" for a long time likely meant any (low-proof) cereal whiskey aged in new charred oak. I am talking about taste and consumer expectation, e.g., in Canada you can find canned root beer and it is certainly a soft drink but I would say, far from a typical one. Typical ones are cola and lemon-lime sodas, orange soda and other mainstream tastes. I meant my comments in that sense.

Gary

[cowdery]

I think it's one of those "mists of time" questions, Brenda. It probably goes back to the time when whiskey was made from any grain that was available. Certainly wheat would have tended to be available in most areas due to its popularity as the primary bread grain. This may also be why it, and barley, were less commonly used in whiskey than corn and rye, because they had other popular uses (bread and beer), whereas corn was primarily used as animal feed and I'm not sure what rye was used for, other than rye bread.

[gr8erdane]

After all this talk about Old Weller Antique 107, I decided to pick up a bottle from my local establishment and give it a try. They were out. So after playing a round of golf, I stopped by a little liquor store I had visited once to see if they had any. I got a bonus. They had a bottle with a burgundy colored cloth bag with gold "Weller Antique" embroidered on it. I just live for the simple little things don't I?

[brendaj]

Chuck,

I agree, rye was most likely grown for the purpose. And, wheat would have been a more valuable commodity just based on the fact that it could be used for several other things.

I guess what I would like to know is, was any other documented mashbill wheat before W.L. Weller?

I don't have a copy of any of the older historical distilling manuals, so I don't know if they mention wheat or not.

So, I guess Bill Sr. got his recipe from Pappy, and Pappy most likely started with W.L. Weller's recipe...and that's the last of the trail?

Bj

[bourbonv]

Brenda,

Pappy probably started with the wheat recipe in the late 20's early 30's when Stitzel Distillery was experimenting with recipes that would age quicker or taste better at an early age. The wheat recipe probably did not come from W. L. Weller. In fact a contract from before prohibition between W. L. Weller and sons and Stitzel Distilling Co. calls for Stitzel to make bourbon for W. L. Weller and sons with rye, not wheat. When you get right down to it, the wheat recipe is probably more of a Beam creation than anybody else because Elmo Beam was the Master Distiller for Stitzel at that time and I am sure it was his knowledge as much as anybody else's knowledge, that perfected the recipe. From him it passed on to Will McGill, who was also related to the Beams.

Mike Veach

[boone]

I don't know for sure if it was created when my family of distillers worked for Pappy...Actually, Pop Beam and Elmo worked there at the same time in the early days. I have a picture of them standing in front of the distillery. Hell, all of the "7 sons" worked for the VanWinkle family

I have a letter from Pappy sent to my Uncle Wilmer (Master Distiller, Yellowstone 1956). That letter was sent in regard to Pop Beams death. Pappy states in that letter that they made wonderful bourbon, with exception on the first day... That clue (in my opinion) told me that they were probably "inventing something" for Pappy He also went on to say that he was the Dean Distiller of his Age...

I guess it's something we will never know for sure.

Will McGill was my great Uncle. He was brother to my great-grandmother Katie McGill Beam

Bettye Jo

[bourbonv]

Bettye Jo,

I was basing the Elmo Beam information on a photo album that Julian Van Winkle owns and let us copy for the U D Archive. In that album it lists Elmo Beam as Master Distiller but there are several other Beams identified.

I think you may be right about the "clue" in your letter - it certainly matches the time frame for the experimentation period I am talking about.

We (myself included) often forget when we refer to distillery owners as "distillers" (people such as Pappy Van Winkle, E. H. Taylor, James E. Pepper, etc...) that the fact is they probably had a Beam, a Dant, a Wathen or a Medley working for them as the "Master Distiller". These are the people that often made the true discoveries and improvements, but never received the credit they deserved.

Mike Veach

[brendaj]

Mike & Bettye Jo,

Since I tend to prefer the wheaters, I'm impressed to know (after all this time) that it probably was a Beam! I have been interested in who actually pioneered the wheat mashbill, since MM started bragging about doing it in their advertising...

the fact is they probably had a Beam, a Dant, a Wathen or a Medley working for them as the "Master Distiller". These are the people that often made the true discoveries and improvements, but never received the credit they deserved.

I absolutely agree 100%! I remember telling Elmer T. Lee how honored I was to meet him. I told him I was a Master Distiller Groupie, and he laughed. He thought I was kidding.

I wasn't...

[Black85L98]

EC 12YO best in the range

WT and OF are good choices

EW BIB is a nice 100 proof for about $12

I take AA over Ezra unless I can get Old Ezra in that price.

[idpa2000]

My two favorite inexpensive bourbons have to be Old Grand Dad 86 and Elija Craig 12.

[ikewillett1]

For my tastes, AAA is the best inexpensive bourbon. Its about $15 a bottle and good to the last drop. I always have a least a couple bottles on hand.

Ike

[wrbriggs]

I can only get AAA 10 star, not AAA 10-year old... from what I've heard, this is the case everywhere outside of Kentucky. I've been told that the 10 star is probably not worth buying, but I might pick some up anyway (except I have to special order it).

[cowdery]

I can get the 10-year-old here in Chicago. I have a bottle now.

The 10-star is 90 proof and six years old, so it's probably not too bad, it's just not 10 years old. I haven't had it, at least not recently. I suspect that at some point they went to this younger (hence cheaper) product in some markets, while still keeping the AAA name and a numeral "10" on the label. This is what Wild Turkey did a few years ago, when they removed the age statement, which was 8 years, but replaced it with a meaningless "No. 8 Brand" so no one would notice.

The six-year-old age claim for AAA 10 Star comes from the website. I don't know if it's on the label or not.

The standard AA is 80 proof and the last time I had it, it was three years old, and wasn't very good.

[tdelling]

Being somewhat curious about the use of wheat, I stuck "wheat whiskey" into

Google, and turned up a Canadian (!) distillery making "Cheltenham Wheat

Whiskey" in 1848, and a picture of a barrel, circa 1860, from a Waterloo

(Canada again!) distillery, marked "EXTRA RECTIFIED RYE AND WHEAT WHISKEY.

HESPELER AND RANDALL". (Randall & Co would later become Seagrams).

My guess is that the Canadians used wheat because it was produced nearby.

I also turned up a "design patent" (early form of copyright?) for

"Simon Crow's Pure White Wheat Whiskey" (1864). Also turned up

an "Essence of Old Virginia Wheat Whiskey" advert (no date).

So there's evidence of wheat being used in whiskey in the 1840s-1860s.

I'd certainly like to hear form others who know more about early bourbon

formulations in the early larger, commercial distilleries, and how

their recipes developed and evolved.

Tim Dellinger