IamMatt Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Just saw a news clip on YouTube with minimal information and thought some insiders might have more info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 They aren't being shut down - their licenses are still active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadewood Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Great article here by Janet Patton with more details. I would say these guys are toast https://www.kentucky.com/lexgoeat/bourbon/article272236178.html. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anwalt Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Ouch. Talk about sloppy. LLC registered to your home address? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomLamb Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I love it, hope they get shut down. The price gouging of stores like this is absurd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richnimrod Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 24 minutes ago, PhantomLamb said: I love it, hope they get shut down. The price gouging of stores like this is absurd. Yet way more common than most of us would imagine, I bet. One would always hope for ethical and honest behavior; but, the fact is that people are toads and will do things they'd never admit to, if they believe nobody is watching. A sad truth about our species, I'm afraid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz June Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 They are missing some of the pieces in this. A number of store owners in DC buy tons of bourbon illegally through secondary markets (they get cover from the fact that they can legally buy from individuals within the district itself) and I'd guess Justin's was doing the same. One of the largest flippers in the area was basically only taking Blanton's in trade (even over cash) for a number of weeks. Virginia actually gets more Blanton's than most states, so this is fertile ground for it. That's how these quantities of Blanton's are stockpiled. So yeah, Sazerac didn't sell that quantity to one account, but that doesn't prove anything. Sazerac likes to blame everything on counterfeiters to discourage people from going to the secondary market, but lots of legitimate bottles are floating around as well. Must Have Malts also goes around Europe buying up bourbon and Europeans aren't so obsessed with it, so they can also come into a good supply of Blanton's without resorting to counterfeits. Now don't get me wrong, there very well could be significant counterfeiting, given the money involved. And I doubt MHM or JHOB can identify all counterfeits that they buy and they probably don't care anyway because there are so many uninformed consumers that it doesn't cause them any issues. This is just the tip of a very large iceberg, but I don't expect more to necessarily come from it. I do wonder if the Justin's guys might start throwing some people under the bus when the time comes. But if state and federal law enforcement cared, they wouldn't need the help. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjbarth Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Just my .02. The article has been floating around in various publications for a while now. I read it a week ago in The State. I think it’s a bunch of click bait. The reporter really didn’t do her job (or maybe she did if auditioning for the National Enquirer). Sazerac is fanning flames. If someone were actually producing counterfeit Blantons (or other Saz products) in the quantities Sazerac is hinting at, people would be dying, literally. It’s very well known that MHM bought up A LOT of Blantons and other Saz product in Europe during COVID and are selling it now. A lot of Sazerac product is sold outside the US, and now, some of it is coming back in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvd99 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 These guys are in a really bad situation. The Feds don't mess around with this stuff. IMO and based on what I could find online, it looks like Justins possibly/allegedly conspired to transport, ship and/or sell liquor across state lines without a license and possibly intentionally or negligently trafficked in counterfeits. There's also a possibility for a conspiracy charge in there too which is a big time escalator to the potential consequences. Who knows if it's true or not? But once you're in the Feds' crosshairs, it's not easy to squirm out without suffering some serious consequences whether it be criminal liability or the massive amounts of money spent on defense lawyers regardless of whether you're guilty or innocent. Justins seems like a small company that wouldn't have the resources to mount a good defense to this kind of governmental pressure, which is backed by unlimited resources. So they're basically screwed IMO. I've said this for years on SB, I believe counterfeits and refills are literally everywhere and I personally assume every single bottle at a place like Justins isn't authentic. Counterfeiting wine and spirits is a massive worldwide enterprise and its been going on for ever. The producers make it easy by putting almost no authenticity countermeasures on the bottles. A few high profile counterfeiting schemes have been uncovered over the years, but most are probably never detected. I always use Four Roses as a perfect example because the only seal on the bottle is a .02 cent plastic shrink wrap anyone can buy on Amazon and put on with a hair drier. So anyone can drink their FR Small Batch Limited Edition, fill it up with Small Batch or Small Batch Select, slap a .02 cent seal on it and sell it to Justins for a nice profit and Justins will happily resell it to you for several hundred dollars or even a grand if you're lucky. Unless they are experts in those cheap plastic shrink wraps, there's absolutely no way for a place like Justin's to tell it's not authentic. That's just the refilling problem. Counterfeiting is probably happening on a much larger scale. I also find it hard to believe there are pallets of real Balnton's just available for purchase overseas. Even if the Blanton's is real, it begs the question would Justins be allowed to bypass the distributors like that because whatever they're buying overseas doesn't qualify as a vintage spirit. This would raise issues with State regulators, however, such a transaction also crosses international borders and implicates interstate commerce which implicates federal jusrisdiction. Very complicated stuff. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadewood Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 KY has a 3-tier system. Other than the exception for vintage spirits, a retailer has to buy from a licensed KY wholesaler. The vintage spirits exception is only for products not currently available in retail, and it has strong limits on how much they can buy from 1 person. So, from the article, my big takeaway is they were clearly violating KY law by buying in bulk not from a KY wholesaler. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughewil Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 The guy shipping the cases of Weller from PA is well known here in Ohio. he pays people here in Ohio to gather up as much weller as they can and he reslaes it to places out of state. The fact that he registered a shell company to do this with his own home address is LOL funny. I have heard a number of the people I always see in line who work a lot with him are worried abut fallout from this from their gathering the bottles he has been illegally selling and transporting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledInBond Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 I’ve crossed paths with Justin Thompson a few years back. I can certainly say that I thought he was a scumbag at the time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvd99 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, BottledInBond said: I’ve crossed paths with Justin Thompson a few years back. I can certainly say that I thought he was a scumbag at the time. “Hello, is this Justin?….I’m a producer for American Greed…do you have a minute to answer some questions?” Edited February 13, 2023 by jvd99 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anwalt Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) On 2/11/2023 at 12:29 PM, jvd99 said: But once you're in the Feds' crosshairs, it's not easy to squirm out without suffering some serious consequences whether it be criminal liability or the massive amounts of money spent on defense lawyers regardless of whether you're guilty or innocent. Truer words were never spoken - sadly. Once they decide they want you, they needn't even find a crime. Though "finding a crime" is easily done, there are more crimes than even prosecutors know exist, the laws are broadly and poorly written, and their volume defies belief. But it rarely makes it that far. First, they charge you with many different things and "stack" the sentences for each violation resulting in a 3-digit sentence if they win. Then they offer you a plea - you become a felon, with all that implies. If you refuse, they bankrupt you via 7 to 8-figure lawyer fees. You then get a public defender sort who cops the plea for you. Add a few who fight all the way, lose, and get insane sentences to make an example to terrorize the citizenry. Maybe people who are convicted are criminals. And then again, maybe not. "You bring me the man, I'll find you the crime." Lavrentiy Beria, chief of the Soviet secret police. PS: More a comment on our system than on this particular case. Edited February 13, 2023 by Anwalt 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughewil Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 So the guy in PA who shipped the Weller registered the shell company with his address, but in his wifes name. She has kicked him out of the house, but he is telling people he isn't worried that all they can get him on is a misdemeanor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anwalt Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 13 hours ago, hughewil said: She has kicked him out of the house, but he is telling people he isn't worried that all they can get him on is a misdemeanor Can't make this stuff up. The dumbass has no idea what he is talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvd99 Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 13 hours ago, hughewil said: So the guy in PA who shipped the Weller registered the shell company with his address, but in his wifes name. She has kicked him out of the house, but he is telling people he isn't worried that all they can get him on is a misdemeanor Famous last words. Reminds me of Shawshank Redemption when Red tells Andy that everyone in the prison is innocent. In addition to criminal lawyers, now this knucklehead will probably have to lawyer up in the divorce also. Double whammy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomLamb Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 On 2/15/2023 at 10:24 AM, jvd99 said: Famous last words. Reminds me of Shawshank Redemption when Red tells Andy that everyone in the prison is innocent. In addition to criminal lawyers, now this knucklehead will probably have to lawyer up in the divorce also. Double whammy All for the love of bourbon… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richnimrod Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, PhantomLamb said: All for the love of bourbon… Welllllll... Bourbon ....and mainly MONEY, I bet! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomLamb Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 4 hours ago, Richnimrod said: Welllllll... Bourbon ....and mainly MONEY, I bet! Yeah that may have had something to do with it too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markandrex Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 On 2/16/2023 at 10:56 PM, PhantomLamb said: Yeah that may have had something to do with it too As they say around here, might could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markandrex Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 Looks like KY is still on them. https://www.wdrb.com/news/business/justins-house-of-bourbons-licenses-at-risk-after-kentucky-officials-allege-violations-of-vintage-spirits/article_6f596b96-5c7a-11ee-8d06-b774bc664c8d.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvd99 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Here’s an in depth update - this case is FUBAR on all sides https://amp.kentucky.com/lexgoeat/bourbon/article285569517.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamMatt Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 Thank goodness we have the government to protect us from buying a bottle of whiskey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvd99 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 This saga is finally over - Justins settled with KY regulators and agreed to pay a $60k fine and admit the allegations. They can now continue doing business as normal. https://www.wdrb.com/news/business/vintage-bourbon-company-settles-case-with-kentucky-regulators-more-than-a-year-after-stores-were/article_222ab018-3001-11ef-b805-b31b4df077a8.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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