Changes to Elijah Craig Barrel Proof

[Jazz June]

EC BP is going to lower, variable age statements on each batch, see: https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/whiskey/elijah-craig-barrel-proof-bourbon-revamp-age-statements-variation-heaven-hill.

 

Even at its increased price of $70, it was still a good deal. I guess too good to last. It will now be more in line with the picks. And Heaven Hill will have more older bourbon for releases that cost $150+.

[mbroo5880i]

59 minutes ago, Jazz June said:

EC BP is going to lower, variable age statements on each batch, see: https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/whiskey/elijah-craig-barrel-proof-bourbon-revamp-age-statements-variation-heaven-hill.

 

Even at its increased price of $70, it was still a good deal. I guess too good to last. It will now be more in line with the picks. And Heaven Hill will have more older bourbon for releases that cost $150+.

 

I am ok with this as long as it is no younger than 9-10 years old and there is an occasional bottle older than 12 years old.

 

I just don't want see it go the way of EWSiB.

Edited May 6, 2023 by mbroo5880i

[smokinjoe]

Would be cool if they listed the percentages of the different ages in each release.  

[berto]

It was bound to happen especially after they started offering picks and considering their history with the small batch.  

[dcbt]

I had to check to the date of the initial post (and then the link) because I bought a bottle of ECBP this past Tuesday with a 9 year age on it.  So it's already happening.   

Edit - I double checked, nevermind, this was a store pick... 

Edited May 6, 2023 by dcbt

[Jazz Nut]

Thanks for the heads up on this.  The article is informative, and perhaps this isn't a bad thing, from the article:

"As for the upcoming Elijah Craig Barrel Proof B523 batch, it will weigh in with an age statement of 11 years, 5 months, which by law reflects the youngest barrel of spirit in the blend. It has a strength of 62.1% ABV (124.2 proof), continuing the trend of recent years that has seen ECBP releases hovering largely in the 120 proof range, rather than the 130-140 proof behemoths of yore. Future batches will be free to fluctuate in various directions in terms of age, with Heaven Hill hinting that the C923 batch could bear an age statement of more than 13 years…"

[Jazz Nut]

But as we all know, this could end up (over time) lessening the age of the product.  Personally the older squat bottle tasted like there was older bourbon, or at least honey barrels, as there was MAJOR depth.  Still a good profile for full flavored bourbon though.  I do think some of the current store picks that are 8-10 years have a bit more harshness, ethanol, and a spirit forward profile compared to the 12 year.

[Kepler]

Well they absolutely destroyed what was once the best value in bourbon (EC12) by removing the 12 year age statement.  You'd think they would have learned something.  Let's see how this turns out.

[GaryT]

While I hate to see lower age statements on principle, if the quality is there - I've have some (albeit exceptions, like the first roundtables) Booker's that were 8 years ish that I'd take over many ECBPs.  If they're more selective about what goes in, I don't mind a batch that includes some younger barrels when they're just incredible.  I want them to replicate the first ever retail release of ECBP.  I don't know what was so different about those, but that was some of the darkest bourbon I've ever had, and the most delicious.  For me, that rivaled GTS, and a fraction of the price.

[kcgumbohead]

Of course the 12yr age statement would have allowed for 12+ in any future or past releases so this only opens the door to younger releases. Given the number of NDPs cranking out BP MGP that taters line up to “collect” I can’t help but wonder what new “limited” releases HH may cook up for some of their older barrels that might have otherwise become ECBP. Time will tell.

[elmossle]

On 5/7/2023 at 12:04 AM, Kepler said:

Well they absolutely destroyed what was once the best value in bourbon (EC12) by removing the 12 year age statement.  You'd think they would have learned something.  Let's see how this turns out.

HH keeps lowering the age of the product while also raising the prices and people, myself included, keep lining up buy them so their business model is doing just fine whether we like it or not.

[Kepler]

22 hours ago, elmossle said:

HH keeps lowering the age of the product while also raising the prices and people, myself included, keep lining up buy them so their business model is doing just fine whether we like it or not.

Well I no longer line up to buy their products.  I only recently bought my first ECBP in literally 5 years.  I have purchased quite a few Larceny BP and Old Fitz BiB so I guess I'm guilty too on some levels.  But IMHO Heaven Hill no longer offers any product remotely comparable to their old EC12 used to be, which was truly a superior product in the marketplace at the time.  Today's closest comparison would be WT101 and Rare Breed IMO

I can't think of anything remotely close when you consider flavor, quality, price, and availability.  Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[mbroo5880i]

1 hour ago, Kepler said:

Well I no longer line up to buy their products.  I only recently bought my first ECBP in literally 5 years.  I have purchased quite a few Larceny BP and Old Fitz BiB so I guess I'm guilty too on some levels.  But IMHO Heaven Hill no longer offers any product remotely comparable to their old EC12 used to be, which was truly a superior product in the marketplace at the time.  Today's closest comparison would be WT101 and Rare Breed IMO

I can't think of anything remotely close when you consider flavor, quality, price, and availability.  Maybe I'm missing something.

 

  The only line I stand in is the checkout line. If I have to wait in line to buy whiskey, I don't.   I can't say if I have to wait in line I won't since I often have to wait in line at the supermarket since most supermarkets are now self checkout.  I am a better cashier than most of the professional cashiers.  I can scan with the best of them.  

 

Bada Bing, Bada Boom.

[mbroo5880i]

I had a private selection 8 year 129 proof pour that I would place easily in the top 10% of the ECBP I have had.  Of course, a private selection differs from a batch release and it may be that those making the pick matched my preferences.  It was very rich, creamy with nice legs in the glass.  The nose has a strong hint of alcohol but on the palate it drank well below its proof.  I hit it with a little water and boom, quite the flavor explosion.  

Edited May 14, 2023 by mbroo5880i

[elmossle]

On 5/10/2023 at 8:45 PM, Kepler said:

Well I no longer line up to buy their products.  I only recently bought my first ECBP in literally 5 years.  I have purchased quite a few Larceny BP and Old Fitz BiB so I guess I'm guilty too on some levels.  But IMHO Heaven Hill no longer offers any product remotely comparable to their old EC12 used to be, which was truly a superior product in the marketplace at the time.  Today's closest comparison would be WT101 and Rare Breed IMO

I can't think of anything remotely close when you consider flavor, quality, price, and availability.  Maybe I'm missing something.

 

 

Up here in NH, ECBP has been a steal at $59.99 a bottle for a long time. Because of that price point, I have been purchasing it by the case for a few years. Next month, that price jumps to $74.99 a bottle. IMO, ECBP is no longer a value or "steal" moving forward. Will I still buy a bottle or two, sure. Will I be purchasing a case at the new price, hell no! It won't be worth it at that price point. 

 

On the flip side, there are a lot of people on here that would love to find a bottle of ECBP at $74.99 and probably haven't seen it at that price in at least 5 years. It is all about perspective. Having just returned from the "motherland" and home home back in Kentucky, prices there are going insane to me as well. Four Roses Small Batch Select could be had for under $50 which is almost $10 cheaper than I can find it here in NE. Other expressions from different distilleries that I remember getting back home were in the $80-$90 range that I would never pay for. 

 

All the brands are going to continue to raise prices and cut age statements until those bottles start sitting on the shelf. Since most of the brands that I enjoy drinking continue to go up in price, and since I have a decent sized bunker, I have drastically slowed my spending. I plan on drinking more of what I already have and buy less of the new stuff. Will I stop buying all together, never. But at some point, we all have our limits and what we are willing to spend for goods. HH and ECBP in particular are reaching that mark for me.

[mbroo5880i]

I bought my first ECBP for $39.99.  As the price increased over the years, I adjusted my acceptable price range.  I thought my ceiling was $69.99 but then I bought a bottle that I really enjoyed at $74.99.  Then, I bought another at the same price.  Every bottle I have bottle was 12 year.  Now we have the announcement that future batches may be younger than 12 years.  I enjoyed a solid pour of a private selection of ECBP 8 year 129 proof this weekend.  I would pay $74.99 for a bottle.  However, that is because I got to sample it first.  

[Jazz Nut]

1 hour ago, mbroo5880i said:

I bought my first ECBP for $39.99.  As the price increased over the years, I adjusted my acceptable price range.  I thought my ceiling was $69.99 but then I bought a bottle that I really enjoyed at $74.99.  Then, I bought another at the same price.  Every bottle I have bottle was 12 year.  Now we have the announcement that future batches may be younger than 12 years.  I enjoyed a solid pour of a private selection of ECBP 8 year 129 proof this weekend.  I would pay $74.99 for a bottle.  However, that is because I got to sample it first.  

 

I also would like to taste a bottle of the new ECBPs before buying.  I assume the batches will be as large as before, so hoping there will be reviews available.  The store selects have been variable in my area (Minneapolis) and they certainly don't taste as mature than the 12 year, and that is to be expected, but a few barrels have been spirity/raw at 9 years, which was a bit surprising.  Closer in profile to the Heaven Hill 6 year BIB, or for those that tasted the gift shop "grenade" which I think was around 8 years if I remember correctly.  Good bourbon, but not the 12 year profile.

[Obree]

On 5/11/2023 at 2:45 AM, Kepler said:

Well I no longer line up to buy their products.  I only recently bought my first ECBP in literally 5 years.  I have purchased quite a few Larceny BP and Old Fitz BiB so I guess I'm guilty too on some levels.  But IMHO Heaven Hill no longer offers any product remotely comparable to their old EC12 used to be, which was truly a superior product in the marketplace at the time.  Today's closest comparison would be WT101 and Rare Breed IMO

I can't think of anything remotely close when you consider flavor, quality, price, and availability.  Maybe I'm missing something.

 

Well said! One of the best values in Bourbon even with their current prices!

[Obree]

On his YouTube channel. Fred Minnick very recently reviewed the new B523, the first one to drop the 12 y age statement. Think the video is about 15 minutes long, but he starts out with a 10 minute rant about the age statement change and why it matters. The actual review is just a few minutes, it scores really well BTW in his opinion!

[Obree]

On 5/7/2023 at 4:29 AM, Jazz Nut said:

Thanks for the heads up on this.  The article is informative, and perhaps this isn't a bad thing, from the article:

"As for the upcoming Elijah Craig Barrel Proof B523 batch, it will weigh in with an age statement of 11 years, 5 months, which by law reflects the youngest barrel of spirit in the blend. It has a strength of 62.1% ABV (124.2 proof), continuing the trend of recent years that has seen ECBP releases hovering largely in the 120 proof range, rather than the 130-140 proof behemoths of yore. Future batches will be free to fluctuate in various directions in terms of age, with Heaven Hill hinting that the C923 batch could bear an age statement of more than 13 years…"

Checked that trend. Indeed very clear downward trend towards that 120 proof range.

[flahute]

On 5/15/2023 at 3:29 AM, Obree said:

Checked that trend. Indeed very clear downward trend towards that 120 proof range.

Yep - the proof drops as the whiskey gets younger.