Coming of Age

[mbroo5880i]

More bourbon is coming of age.  I have enjoyed several bottles of "craft" bourbons that are becoming competitive with legacy distillers.  Prices are still slightly higher but not outrageous based on the quality and enjoyment. 

 

Craft bourbons, I enjoy (in no particular order) include:

 

Woodinville

New Riff

Chattanooga Whiskey and Rye

Still Austin

Hard Truth

[PaulO]

I've mostly avoided the "craft" stuff.  On the other hand, I do like to try new things.  My criteria for considering: must use full size 53 gallon barrels, some good reviews (besides the people selling it), price can't be crazy (not more than twice what legacy brand would charge relative to age and proof).

I've enjoyed Nelson's Greenbrier from TN, and Green River from Owensboro, KY.

The Green River is from the renovated location that used to be Medley.  Also recently acquired by Bardstown Bourbon Co.  So, not sure it still counts as craft, maybe when they started.

[BigRich]

So far, New Riff is the only one that has stuck with me.  I'll drink the rest if someone else is buying though.

[Richnimrod]

...Or at least try a sip... 

[mbroo5880i]

On 5/23/2023 at 10:37 PM, PaulO said:

I've mostly avoided the "craft" stuff.  On the other hand, I do like to try new things.  My criteria for considering: must use full size 53 gallon barrels, some good reviews (besides the people selling it), price can't be crazy (not more than twice what legacy brand would charge relative to age and proof).

I've enjoyed Nelson's Greenbrier from TN, and Green River from Owensboro, KY.

The Green River is from the renovated location that used to be Medley.  Also recently acquired by Bardstown Bourbon Co.  So, not sure it still counts as craft, maybe when they started.

 

Aging in 53 gallon barrels is a must.  Same thing with price.  I can get plenty of great bourbon and rye in the low to mid-$20s.  I have yet to buy a craft or even see one in that price range.

 

I have bought Woodinville for $28 on sale.  I can find it everyday for $36.  I really like it but not at $36.  Of course, economies of scale is beyond their control.  

 

I paid $45 for a bottle of Chattanooga 111.  I recently bought a second bottle for $40.  It is a buy for me at $40 but not as a regular sipper.  A special treat.  I really like it.  I have never tried the 91 proof version.  I bought one the other day for $28.  No brainer for me.  I have read there is a difference in the flavor even though the same profile. 

 

New Riff.  I never met a bottle that I didn't enjoy.  Costco used to stock this stuff regular but I haven't seen in there in a while.  An easy buy at $32.  A decision at $40.  Anything above $30 competes with KC9.  

 

I really like Hard Truth but even the 4 year rye is $40.  Tough sell.  I can grab WTR101 for almost half that price.  

 

Yet, if the product is good, I will pay a little extra if to support the brand. 

 

 

[Anwalt]

On 5/19/2023 at 10:08 PM, mbroo5880i said:

Hard Truth

 

Any you in particular? Tried some Old Fashioned's at their restaurant in Indy if memory serves, but have not tried their stuff straight. Will have to go back when visiting my Leetle Seester.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Anwalt

[mbroo5880i]

We continue to see the smaller regional distillers coming of age.  I really like New Riff, Hard Truth, Still Austin, Woodinville. Rocktown.  The QPR of their offerings is still an issue but they are producing quality whiskey.  I have no problem purchasing any of their products even at a slightly to moderately higher cost.

[Kepler]

Maybe we are talking about only craft bourbon, but I have a nominee for a new rye distiller to add to this list. I have 2 bottles open from Sagamore rye that is their own distillate: the Bonded 5 and 6 year releases.  They are more known for their NDP stuff, but I am also a fan of their BiB that they make themselves.  Unfortunately in my neck of the woods, the BiB is hard to find.  I am looking forward to tracking this one as they hopefully release a 7 or 8 year version later.

[WhiskeyBlender]

@mbroo5880i and @Kepler Master Blender Nancy Fraley here, just now seeing this post. I can speak for Still Austin, where we've only ever used 53 gallon ISC #3 char barrels. In fact, since I want to age some of our Bourbon to 8 to 12+ years old, we are now using 63 gallon barrels American oak/Q. Alba barrels from Tonnellerie ô made in Benicia, CA, in order to help with the severe evaporative loss in TX and also to make for a more elegant, less tannic whiskey than what is commonly found in TX. 

[Kepler]

41 minutes ago, WhiskeyBlender said:

@mbroo5880i and @Kepler Master Blender Nancy Fraley here, just now seeing this post. I can speak for Still Austin, where we've only ever used 53 gallon ISC #3 char barrels. In fact, since I want to age some of our Bourbon to 8 to 12+ years old, we are now using 63 gallon barrels American oak/Q. Alba barrels from Tonnellerie ô made in Benicia, CA, in order to help with the severe evaporative loss in TX and also to make for a more elegant, less tannic whiskey than what is commonly found in TX. 

 

That's an interesting detail, and I know they are in very good hands with you Nancy.  Any idea you can share when the product from those 63 gallon barrels will be available in a bottle?  Fully understand if that is not yet something that is known.

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 3/29/2024 at 7:22 PM, Kepler said:

 

That's an interesting detail, and I know they are in very good hands with you Nancy.  Any idea you can share when the product from those 63 gallon barrels will be available in a bottle?  Fully understand if that is not yet something that is known.

Hey @Kepler, sorry I'm just now seeing this again. So, we first started laying down the 63 gallons barrels about 2 years ago, and we've been monitoring their progress. Even at 2 years old they're very nice, but the whole idea behind using the bigger barrels for central TX hot and humid maturation conditions is to really slow down the maturation process, as well as help retard too much evaporative loss over the years. I also chose barrels that would be very slow in releasing their tannin content, going with at least 24 month yard seasoned staves. 

 

Thus, my plan is that the first of these barrels will start to come on line when they are at least 8 years old, so essentially in another 6 years. But quite honestly, although I've tried very hard to plan a long term maturation program for the Still Austin/TX whiskey, time will be the only thing that really tells how it will mature. I think where the barrels are going so far, the first release at 8 years old seems to be a very real possibility. If we keep those barrels in a "cooler" area of the warehouses, at least relative to how the other barrels mature, then I think we might have a shot at hitting the 10 to 12 year range as well. I hope that helps? 

 

Also, I might add that I would like to also experiment with 300 liter/92 gallon barrels at Still Austin for a 12 to 15 year old Bourbon release. 

Edited April 4, 2024 by WhiskeyBlender

[Kepler]

21 hours ago, WhiskeyBlender said:

Hey @Kepler, sorry I'm just now seeing this again. So, we first started laying down the 63 gallons barrels about 2 years ago, and we've been monitoring their progress. Even at 2 years old they're very nice, but the whole idea behind using the bigger barrels for central TX hot and humid maturation conditions is to really slow down the maturation process, as well as help retard too much evaporative loss over the years. I also chose barrels that would be very slow in releasing their tannin content, going with at least 24 month yard seasoned staves. 

 

Thus, my plan is that the first of these barrels will start to come on line when they are at least 8 years old, so essentially in another 6 years. But quite honestly, although I've tried very hard to plan a long term maturation program for the Still Austin/TX whiskey, time will be the only thing that really tells how it will mature. I think where the barrels are going so far, the first release at 8 years old seems to be a very real possibility. If we keep those barrels in a "cooler" area of the warehouses, at least relative to how the other barrels mature, then I think we might have a shot at hitting the 10 to 12 year range as well. I hope that helps? 

 

Also, I might add that I would like to also experiment with 300 liter/92 gallon barrels at Still Austin for a 12 to 15 year old Bourbon release. 

 

Very cool! (no pun intended, Lol).  Thanks for the extra details and this gives us something to look forward to!

[MyBrainOnWhiskey]

I hate trying something "new / unknown / out of my comfort zone" and being disappointed, but I've recently embraced it.  In recent weeks I've purchased, sampled and enjoyed offerings from New Riff, Wilderness Trail, Starlight, and Chattanooga.  To varying degrees I have liked all of them. 

 

Others on the list to try include Hard Truth and Green River.  Pricing on the Hard Truth Rye is pretty hard to stomach considering the young age.  Green River pricing seems to be pretty good across the board.  When I see the full proof on local shelves I will grab a bottle.  

 

I'd like to try Still Austin, but most of what's available and affordable in my area is aged only 2 years.  Two-year anything is a hard pass for me.  

[lcpfratn]

Old Dominick in Memphis has been releasing their own aged bourbon and Tennessee Whiskey for the last couple of years. We’ve been impressed with their regularly available releases, and just picked a 6 year old barrel of their Tennessee Whiskey. Their pricing was never what I would consider egregious like some craft distillers, but I think they realized that more competitive pricing was necessary if they wanted to successfully expand into other markets, so they recently reduced prices. I expect them to continue to grow, especially now with their more accessible pricing. 

[kcgumbohead]

On 7/15/2024 at 8:42 PM, lcpfratn said:

Old Dominick in Memphis has been releasing their own aged bourbon and Tennessee Whiskey for the last couple of years. We’ve been impressed with their regularly available releases, and just picked a 6 year old barrel of their Tennessee Whiskey. Their pricing was never what I would consider egregious like some craft distillers, but I think they realized that more competitive pricing was necessary if they wanted to successfully expand into other markets, so they recently reduced prices. I expect them to continue to grow, especially now with their more accessible pricing. 

My BIL and his wife moved to Memphis last year. I knew nothing of O.D. but we went to lunch at Gus fried chicken across the street (DELICIOUS!!). I immediately started googling O.D. while we waited for our table. After we ate the family was game to wander across the street so I could investigate further. I loved the 44%rye and the Alex Castle tie in with WT so I was very much looking forward to a tasting. I had a flight of their single barrels and I gotta say I really love the atmosphere, they did a GREAT job on that facility. I enjoyed my pours, 1 stood out (they had 3 or 4 SBCS releases available in the flight) I cant remember which one I preferred but I didn't feel the bottle price was justified so I passed, there was potential but I decided to wait and revisit once they had a couple more years behind them. I understand Alex Castle has since eft O.D. but I am still very much interested in the 44%rye bourbon ( I do love my ryes!!). I am very glad to hear they have revisited their pricing and realigned. I believe there is a SBBS in my future and I very much look forward to revisiting the distillery and spending more time on a future trip. Its great to hear you have good things to say and found the TN whiskey worthy of a pick. Do they let you have it at CS or will you get a proofed down bottling?

[lcpfratn]

On 7/17/2024 at 9:02 AM, kcgumbohead said:

My BIL and his wife moved to Memphis last year. I knew nothing of O.D. but we went to lunch at Gus fried chicken across the street (DELICIOUS!!). I immediately started googling O.D. while we waited for our table. After we ate the family was game to wander across the street so I could investigate further. I loved the 44%rye and the Alex Castle tie in with WT so I was very much looking forward to a tasting. I had a flight of their single barrels and I gotta say I really love the atmosphere, they did a GREAT job on that facility. I enjoyed my pours, 1 stood out (they had 3 or 4 SBCS releases available in the flight) I cant remember which one I preferred but I didn't feel the bottle price was justified so I passed, there was potential but I decided to wait and revisit once they had a couple more years behind them. I understand Alex Castle has since eft O.D. but I am still very much interested in the 44%rye bourbon ( I do love my ryes!!). I am very glad to hear they have revisited their pricing and realigned. I believe there is a SBBS in my future and I very much look forward to revisiting the distillery and spending more time on a future trip. Its great to hear you have good things to say and found the TN whiskey worthy of a pick. Do they let you have it at CS or will you get a proofed down bottling?

All of our picks with them have been at cask strength. We’ve done 2 previous picks of their Huling Station Bourbon, which was contract distilled at MGP for Old Dominick using their own high rye mashbill while they were getting their distillery and facilities up and running. They still have some of those barrels aging in their rickhouses , but a portion their own distillate in barrels is now 6 years old or more. 
 

Alex Castle has left to get back closer to family in Kentucky from what I understand. She has joined Augusta Distillery in Augusta, Kentucky as their Master Distiller. According to the owners at Old Dominick, they are still in good hands after her departure, but wish her well with her new endeavors. 

[mbroo5880i]

I was at one of my local stores today.  I am a regular and the clerk recognizes me when I come in.  I shopped around for awhile and couldn't find anything that met my QPR.  I asked him if he had anything that might be interesting that he likes.  He told me that I already know some of the picks that he really likes but they did have a couple of new barrel picks of West Fork Whiskey bourbons that are pretty solid for the price.

 

One was West Fork Whiskey Wheated Bourbon and the other was West Fork Whiskey High Rye Bourbon.  Both were SiB store picks, NCF and checked in around 120 proof.  They were also 3+ years old so on the younger side.  

 

Background - West Fork is a local distillery.  West Fork references the West Fork of White River.  One of the major rivers that runs through Indiana.  They provide two whiskey brands.  One is well known, Old Hamer.  It is sourced MGP.  The other is West Fork Whiskey and it is distilled inhouse.  Originally, they aged their West Fork products in 30 gallon barrels to get it to age quicker.  I believe they now age in the standard 53 gallon barrels.  They started in downtown Indy but have moved most of their operations to Westfield which is north of Indy.  Earlier reviews of their inhouse distilled products were less than stellar.  As such, I had never tried them.  However, I believe they rebooted their operations when they moved the distilling operation.  I have tried the Old Hamer (MGP) and it is good.  So, today was my first try of their distillate even though I see it a lot of places locally.  

 

Alhough only 3+ years old, I enjoyed both. However, I opted for the Wheated Straight Bourbon. Interestingly, the mashbill is 73 corn/17 wheat/10 rye.  Yep, instead of barley, they use rye. That is unique.  I believe it adds to the flavor profile. I suspect at some point I will but the High Rye Bourbon as well.  This is very similar to Backbone Wheat Whiskey (MGP) that I bought a few years back.  It was similar in age and proof and quite enjoyable.  

 

I paid $49.99 for a 750 ml bottle.  Is it worth 2x Makers Mark?  Yes, for me.  Is it worth a slight upcharge to MMCS?  Again, yes for me.  

 

As everyone knows, I am a Cheap Bastard.  I fret when I get overcharged at McDonald's or I am missing a penny in my change.  That's how I am wired.  I don't feel like I overpaid for a bottle of whiskey that by all metrics doesn't measure up.  But, as we all say, you like what you like and price is relative to enjoyment. 

[meadeweber]

On 9/21/2024 at 8:53 PM, mbroo5880i said:

I was at one of my local stores today.  I am a regular and the clerk recognizes me when I come in.  I shopped around for awhile and couldn't find anything that met my QPR.  I asked him if he had anything that might be interesting that he likes.  He told me that I already know some of the picks that he really likes but they did have a couple of new barrel picks of West Fork Whiskey bourbons that are pretty solid for the price.

 

One was West Fork Whiskey Wheated Bourbon and the other was West Fork Whiskey High Rye Bourbon.  Both were SiB store picks, NCF and checked in around 120 proof.  They were also 3+ years old so on the younger side.  

 

Background - West Fork is a local distillery.  West Fork references the West Fork of White River.  One of the major rivers that runs through Indiana.  They provide two whiskey brands.  One is well known, Old Hamer.  It is sourced MGP.  The other is West Fork Whiskey and it is distilled inhouse.  Originally, they aged their West Fork products in 30 gallon barrels to get it to age quicker.  I believe they now age in the standard 53 gallon barrels.  They started in downtown Indy but have moved most of their operations to Westfield which is north of Indy.  Earlier reviews of their inhouse distilled products were less than stellar.  As such, I had never tried them.  However, I believe they rebooted their operations when they moved the distilling operation.  I have tried the Old Hamer (MGP) and it is good.  So, today was my first try of their distillate even though I see it a lot of places locally.  

 

Alhough only 3+ years old, I enjoyed both. However, I opted for the Wheated Straight Bourbon. Interestingly, the mashbill is 73 corn/17 wheat/10 rye.  Yep, instead of barley, they use rye. That is unique.  I believe it adds to the flavor profile. I suspect at some point I will but the High Rye Bourbon as well.  This is very similar to Backbone Wheat Whiskey (MGP) that I bought a few years back.  It was similar in age and proof and quite enjoyable.  

 

I paid $49.99 for a 750 ml bottle.  Is it worth 2x Makers Mark?  Yes, for me.  Is it worth a slight upcharge to MMCS?  Again, yes for me.  

 

As everyone knows, I am a Cheap Bastard.  I fret when I get overcharged at McDonald's or I am missing a penny in my change.  That's how I am wired.  I don't feel like I overpaid for a bottle of whiskey that by all metrics doesn't measure up.  But, as we all say, you like what you like and price is relative to enjoyment. 

That's great info!  Thanks for posting it.

[ebo]

My two favorite craft bourbons at the moment are Penelope and New Riff. Sagamore Spirit is right there too.

[Jazz June]

I find the maturity of the craft distilleries one of the more interesting areas of American whiskey, if very frustrating at times. Two places that I consider craft have put themselves above the rest in my opinion, but unfortunately, one I really don't like the pricing (Willett) and the other (Peerless) is not great on pricing and headed in the wrong direction on it recently.

 

Willett's rye whiskey is truly special, with some of the 9-11yr single barrels being arguably the best American rye whiskey on the market for me. Their bourbon is a lot more hit and miss for me, but a 12-year barrel selected for last year's Bourbon Bonanza was truly special and could compete with just about any other top-flight current bourbon. The problem is, the MSRPs for these mature single barrels are in the $300-$450 range. Despite the quality, that's still way too high and the fact that many of the bourbons miss the mark makes them an easy pass if I haven't tried them. The secondary value on these has largely (although not totally) collapsed as the MSRPs and supply have risen.

 

I have not tried Peerless barrels at such high ages, but their 6 and 7-year ryes are very strong. Their bourbons of similar age are good, although not as good as the rye, but definitely show promise to me that when they do start hitting that 8-to-10-year range, they may be special. Their double oaked whiskeys are also quite good. Peerless' pricing out of the gate was terrible on their 2-year-old rye, but had stabilized for quite some time as the whiskey came up in age. I thought the QPR was actually reaching a reasonable point, but now the prices have risen significantly in the last 12 to 18 months. I really like their product, but the QPR is such that when my group talks about picking there again, it is a maybe or wait and see rather than a clear yes. The distributor cost on some of their single barrels is in the area of $90-95, generating retails prices in the $115-120 range. While this isn't totally beyond the pale, it is on the high side and when compared to similar quality picks from legacy distilleries, it can be a hard sell to those who don't like the brand as much as I do.

 

And a final note, I like Wilderness Trail, but I feel they have taken a step back, or maybe more accurately, failed to take some steps forward that I expected or think they could have. I found their 8-year bourbon releases lackluster. They did a 7-year rye that was good, but single barrels of both bourbon and rye are still "only" 4 and 5 years old. I'm still hopeful that the potential is there, but now I'm hearing rumors about great upheaval there. Hopefully they come through it ok.

[ebo]

Can any of you shed some light on Old Elk? I see this everywhere, and it isn't cheap. I never see anyone purchasing it and I haven't heard anything about it.

[Richnimrod]

1 hour ago, ebo said:

Can any of you shed some light on Old Elk? I see this everywhere, and it isn't cheap. I never see anyone purchasing it and I haven't heard anything about it.

I had a bottle back when it first hit the Michigan market.   I's not bad; but, for the cheddar, I'd skip it unless one is desperate for the experience.

[Jazz June]

3 hours ago, ebo said:

Can any of you shed some light on Old Elk? I see this everywhere, and it isn't cheap. I never see anyone purchasing it and I haven't heard anything about it.

Craft place in Colorado, hired Greg Metze who was the master distiller at MGP, put out lots of MGP sourced stuff. I believe some of their own distillate as well. Their prices have always been high so I have never purchased, but some people seem to like them. They are starting to hit some decent 8 and 9 year age statements on bourbon and wheat whiskey. Few samples I have had didn’t impress me or change my mind on the QPR.

[Skinsfan1311]

On 4/3/2025 at 7:52 PM, ebo said:

Can any of you shed some light on Old Elk? I see this everywhere, and it isn't cheap. I never see anyone purchasing it and I haven't heard anything about it.

 

On 4/3/2025 at 11:02 PM, Jazz June said:

Craft place in Colorado, hired Greg Metze who was the master distiller at MGP, put out lots of MGP sourced stuff. I believe some of their own distillate as well. Their prices have always been high so I have never purchased, but some people seem to like them. They are starting to hit some decent 8 and 9 year age statements on bourbon and wheat whiskey. Few samples I have had didn’t impress me or change my mind on the QPR.

 

I bought a couple bottles from a barrel pick that were ~ 7 years old  and ~112 proof about 3 years ago and I really like it.  I killed one and have one I haven't opened yet.   I think I paid ~ $80.00.    A little steep, but I don't regret the purchase.  I was gifted a bottle of the Four Grain, and it's pretty good, but not $109.00 MSRP good.   I won't be replacing it.