Dick stoll and Michters, help

[Zman75]

I’m newish (3 years) to the bourbon scene,but I have tried to read as much as I can on the topic. I grew up in SE Pennsylvania not far from schaefferstown and was elated to learn about the history of the famed AH Hirsch 16 year, the original Michters and shenks,etc. and, the story of dick stoll closing up the distillery and then working as a custodian at Lebanon high school only to open stoll and Wolfe later is legendary. … it’s easy to see this history and then see that Michters is the Most admired brand in whiskey” in the world and be proud. I mean I love Michters products. And I love that joe -Michters owner really adheres to quality. But, honestly I’m pissed. And I am writing this post hoping someone can help me not be so pissed. 
 

im pissed that it seems that modern Michters has completely stolen the heritage from Michters and not given an ounce of help or cred to the old PA Michters people, distillery, or place. Didn’t joe and company take the original still from pa and set it up in ky? My neighbor says I should be happy that Michters exists and that joe has restored a brand from the trash heap of history to make it good again. And I get that… I really do…I’m not upset about that… it’s just the fact that it wasn’t joe that found sick sroll to offer him a job. Or it wasn’t the new Michters that wanted to help make a museum in pa for the history… or the fact that joe and company ran dick stoll off by stealing the bombergers name, real low move. Does anyone know if joe and new Michters ever reached out to the producer of one of the greatest bourbons of all time - dick stoll to bring him on, or did he just screw him? And second, why would he bring Pratt on over stoll? I sound jaded and am now, I grew up with kids names Shenk and bombergers and other Pennsylvania Dutch… wish Michters could at least genuinely make a connection to that past vs milking it w marketing that doesn’t mean anything. If anyone can help share details about this past I’d love to know. Help me come to grips w the old Michters and new Michters so can be less jaded.

[PaulO]

My understanding is that Mr. Stoll let the copyright lapse on the Michter brand name.  The new people (no prior connection) were able to register the name at that point.  The new copyright holders threatened Mr. Stoll in court not to discuss his relationship with the original brand he founded.  I think that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. 

[Richnimrod]

Zman75, I'd guess many share your disappointment regarding the 'new' Michter's company not being more open to actual connections to the 'old' Michter's and instead just using implied-but-phony connections to the Pennsylvania heritage while shading anybody from the actual history of the brand.   Their offerings, although pretty steeply priced, have been of mostly high quality, IMO.  ...At least those I've sampled.

[Zman75]

Paul, I thought about the idea that dick may have been the one to let the trademark run out, but I didn’t think he was the owner of any of the trademarks. I could be wrong though. I thought he was just the distiller, maintenance man, Jack of all trades at that place (listening to old interviews of him, he sounds amazing) and that the owners of the Michter’s distillery kept taking money out of the distillery and then next thing he knew, he was getting a note about foreclosure. I don’t want to over romanticize dick and Michters (the original) but man… really wish joe would build his brand by building connections to PA and the real families that built that legacy. For all new readers.. the modern Michters had no part in making rye for George Washington  

 

paul,rich, or anyone else, if you have any more insights, please let me know. I’m fascinated by 80s to 2000s bourbon transition.

[smokinjoe]

See if you can get your hands on this book by our friend, Chuck Cowdery.  “The Best Bourbon You’ll Never Taste.  It tells the tale of A.H. 16 year bourbon, and Michter’s and Dick Stoll.  Perhaps, it will have new info in it for you.  

[mbroo5880i]

Regarding Michter's what once was is no longer, the current Michter's is a brand name.  The same, no.  But many hold a grudge while other's do not.   Many seek the glory of glut bourbon while other's do not.  Unless I am mistaken, if you buy Michter's today you are buying NDP.  Not necessarily a bad thing but not the legacy brand of yesteryear. 

[Kepler]

Whenever the bubble bursts, there will be many bourbon companies that go out of business.  Let's just say I hope the current Michter's is the first one.

[Richnimrod]

8 hours ago, Kepler said:

Whenever the bubble bursts, there will be many bourbon companies that go out of business.  Let's just say I hope the current Michter's is the first one.

Oooooh! Tell us how you really feel, Kepler..... HA!

[flahute]

16 hours ago, mbroo5880i said:

Regarding Michter's what once was is no longer, the current Michter's is a brand name.  The same, no.  But many hold a grudge while other's do not.   Many seek the glory of glut bourbon while other's do not.  Unless I am mistaken, if you buy Michter's today you are buying NDP.  Not necessarily a bad thing but not the legacy brand of yesteryear. 

Distilled at Old Forester mostly.

[Jazz June]

I too like history and generally dislike made-up ties to the past, but when current Michter's started out, they sourced like most new brands do. There wasn't anyone in Pennsylvania to buy any solid quantity of whiskey from. So they bought in Kentucky and then moved to contract distilling with Brown-Forman in Kentucky. When they built their own distillery and warehouses, they essentially copied Brown-Forman's designs and methods and built their place nearby as well. I'm sure this was done to keep the flavor profile as close to the one their customers know (and presumably like) as possible. Building a distillery in Pennsylvania would have inherently changed the whiskey and almost been like starting over.

 

An interesting comparison is what happened with Woodford Reserve. When Brown-Forman bought back the distillery that is now called Woodford Reserve and launched the brand, the whiskey made at Woodford wasn't old enough. So the early batches of Woodford are just honey barrels of Old Forester selected by Lincoln Henderson. The brand quickly took off, so when the barrels at Woodford came of age, Brown-Forman didn't want to change the flavor profile of the product too much. Their solution was to mix distillate from Woodford and Old Forester to make the Woodford Reserve product going forward.

 

Sagamore Spirit in Maryland is going through a similar dilemma. They sourced MGP rye and copied as much as they could for the production of their own ryes. But they are afraid that dropping the MGP elements from their products will damage the quality (and sales), so they are holding back from moving to 100% their own distillate. I think their own distillate is pretty solid at 5 and 6 years old, but the concern is understandable.

 

The Shenk's and Bomberger's situation is quite different and ill-will based on that is far more justified to my mind.

[PaulO]

All I know about Shenk's and Bomberger's is that they are other brands put out by the modern owner of Michter's copyright.  How is this situation different.

 

I don't know about Michter's Rye (who made it).  The Bourbon sourced from B-F is the Early Times mash bill.

 

Too much Potemkin business practice from Michter's for me.