Cluny Scotch

[Frodo]

You mentioned liking Black Bush because more of the sherry taste gets in due to aging a high proportion of the malt component in sherry cask. I do not see the difference between aging whisky in that way and pouring a little sherry into a finished whisky, to me it is essentially the same thing.

Gary

I'm a little out of my league here Gary, but my instinct is not to agree. I wonder why. I think perhaps it's the romantic in me that wants the sherry casking to be unique and unable to be duplicated by other (cheaper) means.

I will say that from experiance, sherry finishing and sherry casking have different effects on the flavour profile. I think perhaps the oak that comes from Spain has different effect on the flavours than just the sherry in the casks.

I will say that John Hall makes his Barrell Select brand using (Canadian) sherry casks. If all he had to do was dump in some sherry during bottling to achieve the same effect, I think that would have been more cost effective.

You raise a great point though. People have been wondering about the "finishing" craze in the malt world, and the idea of simply dumping flavourings into the barrell has been mentioned as similar.

[Gillman]

Frodo: first, you are not out of your depth.

Spanish wood interacts with sherry but recall it is used wood. At that point, even first refill, it is a well-used container that I don't think does that much -I believe it is the wine leaching into the whiskey that has the main effect on the whisky. Also, sherry poured from a bottle has Spanish oak in it, so that enters the whisky anyway. Maybe not for as long (in fact it won't be) but how material is that, I wonder? I have bought good Oloroso sherry and added it to a non-sherried whisky and it tastes a lot like one of the classic sherried whiskies. I am not advocating that people do this but I did it as an experiment. Sherry-finishing (whisky held in sherry casks for a short time before bottling) is the same idea, in fact that is where I got the idea from just to add a little sherry. Usually I add it to a blend I put together, as a blending or marrying agent. I think different practices are valid or potentially so - a lot depends on the quality of the sherry or other wine or flavouring addition used - but taste is all that matters in the end. I do like Forty Creek very much, the sherry taste (Canadian sherry by the way) in the 3 Grain (which seems to have disappeared from the shelves recently) is very prominent and it adds a lot to the whisky. But could Hall have achieved similar by simply adding some sherry to his blends? I believe he could have but I can't be sure. Certainly the product gains authenticity by being aged in sherry casks, no question.

Gary

[CrispyCritter]

John Glaser argues that if you use quality ingrediants, there's no reason why you shouldn't a get good quality blend. His Asyla blend is 10yrs at minimum (he said) but is 60% malt, 40% grain.

Yes indeed, Asyla is one of the better blends out there - it's the only one I've tried that even approaches Campbeltown Loch 25yo, IMO. I forget the exact percentage of malt in CL25, but I'm pretty sure it was in the 60-70% range - and the grain whiskies in the CL25 blend were very old (~40 years).

Asyla is quite reasonably priced, and it has one huge advantage over CL25 - namely, availability. If you're lucky enough to find a CL25 on the shelf, grab it, because there's no more to be had.

[fogfrog]

So I take it no one but me has tried the Cluny Scotch?

[bluesbassdad]

Even my frugal son, a Dewar's drinker, says he's afraid to try a scotch that cheap. If I keep after him, I'll bet he caves in. I'll let you know what he says.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[Frodo]

So I take it no one but me has tried the Cluny Scotch?

Can't get it here. Sorry I can't help...

[fogfrog]

Dave, I heard great things about Grants and bought a bottle yesterday. Grants is ten bucks more a half gallon than Cluny. But for my taste, the Cluny is a bit better. It seems to have in it what I like about Chivas. They definitely have a different taste, the Cluny and the Grant's. I like the Cluny better.

I asked the guy at the liquor store about the Cluny and he said it sells like wildfire when it is on sale. I said, "On Sale?" I mean it only costs 15.29 a half gallon as it is. But I guess it goes down into the 13 dollar range or something.

The thing is that the Cluny is good straight. I think at least the way my taste buds are adjusted now, I'd have to add ice or water to the Grant's. The Cluny has less of that alcohol taste and more of a malt taste to it.

Paul

Also, if anyone knows a scotch forum, I'd be interested.

[TNbourbon]

...if anyone knows a scotch forum, I'd be interested.

www.whiskymag.com/forum

[bluesbassdad]

Different strokes and all that, but your mention of Chivas has caused me to lower my priority in regard to trying Cluny. Given a choice, I will drink Coors light instead of Chivas.

One of the more knowledgeable malt fans here told me that one of the malts in Chivas is Strathisla, which I also don't like. If someone were to confirm my inference that Cluny contains that malt, then I could skip it completely.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[AVB]

Damn, Coors light is the anti-beer too. You must really not like Chivas. Your friend is correct, Strathilsa is a major part of it and it is even blended at the Strathisla distillery.

Given a choice, I will drink Coors light instead of Chivas.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[CrispyCritter]

I've always been reticent about buying 1.75 liter bottles of anything, and I also haven't been keen about buying cheap Scotches. Maybe I ought to take another look at some of the cheaper blends (and "bastard" single malts [1]) out there, though. I'm quite unhappy about the price jumps that have occurred to some of my favorite single malts. :banghead: It's been well over a year since I've had any Lagavulin - the last bottle I bought was about $52, and now it's bumping up against $80. Needless to say, I'm very glad to find that I thoroughly like bourbon, rye, and Tennessee whiskeys!

I've found a cache of Ardbeg 10 under $30 - while it's hit $50 elsewhere. :banghead: Needless to say, I poach a bottle whenever I'm near that store... but I already have it well-bunkered.

(Hi Dane! If I'm ever down by St. Louis, I'll be happy to take that bottle of Ardbeg off your hands!) :slappin:

As for Chivas, I found it to be a nice, inoffensive blend - but Compass Box Asyla is, IMO, a better blend and a better buy.

[1] Single malts where the distiller isn't identified, like the cheap Signatory Vintage bottlings.

[gr8erdane]

No Arfgag in my humble abode! I bought it for a friend who lives out in the sticks where all he can get are the very basics like Glenlivet and Glenfidditch. I try to find him something different every year. Started with Oban 14 which I don't mind in the least, then got him a Glenmorangie gift set with four glencairn glasses which was acceptable, and finally the Arfgag 10 this year which pretty much impressed me as what a cowchip infused cappucino might be like. He said he likes it fine though and he's welcome to it. At Chicago Whiskeyfest this week I plan on finding his next gift bottling, one I can enjoy with him.

[DrinkyBanjo]

Go to Binnys and get a bottle of Bruichladdich 3D Peat Proposal. Sweet, peaty stuff.

[CrispyCritter]

Tonight, I decided that I ought to get myself a bottle of Fall '05 Stagg to squirrel away, and spied some Cluny on the Scotch shelf. A 750 ml bottle was a measly $8, so I grabbed one to take home along with the Hazmat II, and I'm sipping some right now.

While it'll never be mistaken for a Lagavulin 16, Glenrothes '74, or Campbeltown Loch 25, it's still enjoyable neat - and at its price, the bang-for-the-buck factor is incredible. It reminds me of an Irish whiskey, but with a smoky edge that clearly says it's a Scotch.

It's yet another example that even a cheap pour can be good!

[AVB]

I found out that the distribution of Cluny is a 15 yr deal with Kyndal Spirits (now Whyte & Mackay) of the UK.

[fogfrog]

I don't have a lot of experience with Scotches yet, but am finding some of the less expensive ones are pretty tasty. I tried the Grant's again and like it and then when I was on a trip down to Dallas, stopped in the store and bought this ultra cheap Highland Mist which is a Barton's product. It was pretty good too! Now I am back home with the Cluny and it definitely has a totally different taste than the Highland Mist. Its a lot heavier. The Highland Mist is made of Islay and Speyside whiskies.

I found that other forum but unfortunately I have not found any Scotch forums that are anywhere near as good as the Bourbon forum here.

[Frodo]

Hi Fogfrog:

Just recieved my new copy of JM's Whisky Bible and he seems to like Cluny. Clearly you're not the only one who thinks highly of it although I wouldn't call it a well-known blend!

"Cluny (85) n20 t21 f22 b22. I adore this kind of slightly rough-edged blend: every time you take a mouthfull something slightly different happens. If I were to find fault, a touch too much caramel is evident at the very death" (p220).

As a brief aside, if you're looking for cheap blended whisky that tastes good, JM's Whisky Bible might be of assistance as it reviews cheap blends and expensive malts alike. Also reviews whiskies from all countries. Only issue I have with it is that I can't get into the scoring of whiskies, as I have problems quantifying something that is about craft, quality and expression. Artistic terms would serve me better...

[davidrmoran]

I just came across this v interesting thread, on my favorite bourbon forum (the only one, actually), no less. Cluny is indeed a fine scotch, incredible for the money. Of course it is not high-end, whatever that means to each whisk(e)y-lover. I was loath to drink something so cheap, but I did blind (joke potential here) tastings of several cheapies, and Cluny and Old Smuggler won hands-down. Most were awful in their roughness (MacGregor et al). Scoresby and Vat 69 Gold were good too, but not as good as Cluny and Smuggler. They even beat Ballantine's, often on sale around Boston.

For a real treat (a kind of cocktail), add a drop or three of an acceptable bourbon to your Cluny (I use the slightly mentholated JB white): just wonderful, more like a scotch finished in bourbon casks. And of course to any bland scotch you also can add a drop of some Isla that is hard to take straight (I use McClelland generic Isla, distilled by Morrison). This takes it more toward the peaty direction of Grant's, Teacher's, JW Red, and so on.

Switching gears slightly, I just discovered a single-malt that might appeal to the most serious bourbonites here: Dalmore Cigar. Despite the silly name, this is a sensationally tasty drink, and strongly chocolaty/vanilla-y/citrusy, in the direction of the greater bourbons, I think.