Gin

[Gillman]

Of the various drinks we discuss here I'd wager gin gets the least discussion. Of vodka, tequila, malt whisky, Irish, beer, Canadian whisky, even wine, there is occasional discussion, often quite, um, spirited. But gin is rarely discussed (never mind its ancestor genever gin, still liked in Holland and a few other places). I have only two bottles of gin and rarely sample them but I thought comments on some tweaked Beefeater I have may be of interest. Some years ago I brought back from a trip to northern France an artisanal gin, in fact a genever gin (the Flemish-influenced part of France favours the drink no less than the same cultural areas in Belgium and The Netherlands). It was quite juniper-tasting, in fact it had juniper berries on the bottom. I added the remains of that bottle to an 80% full bottle of Beefeater gin. When I tasted it again, it struck me it could use yet more juniper taste. So I added a teaspoon of juniper berries to it. Then it was very piney/forest-like, almost too much. I had a bottle of Finsbury gin, another London dry style and added some of that, to reduce the juniper taste and add some of its own taste which was kind of orange-like and sweetish. Fast forward five years, when I tried it yesterday. It was good but needed more Finsbury so I topped it up with the remains of that bottle. Now it is really good, with a full juniper and orange-like taste, sweetish and rich. It makes a good Martini - very good.

Occasionally we've had discussion of the gins people like for Martinis or G&T. I would be interested in current suggestions, I am thinking of buying a couple of bottles now that summer is soon upon us. What do people like?

Gary

[elkdoggydog]

There's always Bombay, which has never dissappointed me, but I like Plymouth better for G & T, and it's usually cheaper. I'm not sure I can put my finger on the Plymouth flavor, but I recommend it. Hendrick's is also a great gin- I believe they use cucumber in it. It makes a nice martini, imo. Three different flavor profiles there, too.

Anyone try the Van Gogh gin?

[Gillman]

Good suggestions, thanks. I may pick up Plymouth Gin. I've read it represents a mid-point between the heavier-flavored Dutch style and the London Dry type of gin. It is or was associated with naval traditions. There was a drink called pink gin which was a glass rinsed with bitters and then filled with Plymouth gin (and other brands were used too). That is a good drink if the gin is not too dry and I suspect Plymouth gin may have some residual sweetness and therefore suit this drink. Beefeater has a new orange-flavored gin out which might work too. Also, this cocktail was traditionally not iced and I mention that since many here like spirits and even cocktails without ice. Few if any gin drinks can rival the Martini though.

Gary

[JeffRenner]

For an occasional martini, I love the in-your-face flavors of Anchor Junipero, made by the same folks who bring you Anchor Steam and Old Potrero. I like some vermouth in my martini - more than the "glance in the general direction of the vermouth bottle" or rinse-the-glass amount. Probably about 5:1, and Junipero holds up to this.

This is a California-only brand as far as I know, so I bring it back when I'm visiting our kids. When I can't get it, such as in a restaurant, I like Tanqueray No. Ten. It is also a gutsier gin than most.

The last time I ordered a martini out, I asked if they had Tanqueray 10, and the waiter said they did, but when he brought it, it was flabby (as well as being warm). I asked if they made it with Tanqeray Ten, and he assured me they had. But as I was leaving, I checked with the bartender, and he said they only carried regular Tanqueray. I let the manager know my disappointment and asked him to straighten out the waiter.

Jeff

[scratchline]

Give Malacca Gin a try. Tanqueray has discontinued it, but it can still be found occasionally. I came across several bottles in the LA area. It has a singular taste profile and comes highly recommended by Ted Haigh in his Vintage Spirits and Forgotten Cocktails, a book worthy of any aspiring mixologist. Here's a review:

http://www.alcoholreviews.com/SPIRITS/malacca.html

-Mike

[Vange]

I enjoy Cadenhead's Old Raj and Hendrick's (cucumbery).

I also 2nd the Anchor Junipero.

[Gillman]

Thanks, can you indicate the abv of those? Unlike bourbons and some vodkas it seems most gins are 40% abv which can't however be (completely) historical. Some of the lore of the dry martini must come from the gins in its heyday being 100 proof or at least 90.

Gary

[BourbonJoe]

I personally like Bombay Saphire. It is readily available here and I find it makes the perfect martini for me. I also like more than a dash of vermouth in my martini, along with a splash of olive juice. I drink em on the rocks.

Joe :usflag:

[ratcheer]

Thanks, can you indicate the abv of those? Unlike bourbons and some vodkas it seems most gins are 40% abv which can't however be (completely) historical. Some of the lore of the dry martini must come from the gins in its heyday being 100 proof or at least 90.

Gary

Gary, I remember when the better gins (Beefeaters, Bombay, Tanqueray, etc) were all over 90 proof. I think 94 was common. So, that has changed? I hadn't noticed, but I have a few bottles of various brands on hand and I will check.

Tim

[Gillman]

Hi Tim, interesting, thanks. All the major gins in Ontario are 40%, yes. I'll look and see if one may be 43% but that would be the top limit here!

Gary

[contrarian]

Tim, I've got a bottle of Tanqueray Ten that is 94 proof (as is regular Tanqueray London Dry, Beefeater, Brokers here in Oregon). The Plymouth I've had is 82 proof, but I've read that they offer a 114 proof version.

Try as I might, I cannot learn to like gin. I keep one bottle of good stuff for cuts and abrasions and guests.

Jeff

[JeffRenner]

Thanks, can you indicate the abv of those? Unlike bourbons and some vodkas it seems most gins are 40% abv which can't however be (completely) historical. Some of the lore of the dry martini must come from the gins in its heyday being 100 proof or at least 90.

Junipero is 98.6 proof - a little numerology fun on the part of the marketeers, I guess (for you Celcius-types, body temperature, 37 C, is 98.6 Fahrenheit).

Tanqueray No. Ten is 94.6 proof.

This certainly contributes to the quality of martinis made with them. They can be shaken (or stirred) enough to thoroughly chill them without over-diluting them. It also helps them to hold up to a bit more vermouth.

BTW, I don't like a "dirty" martini - one made with a splash of olive juice. When I think of all the trouble the distiller goes to to choose more than a dozen botanicals, then infuses them into the GNS and distills it again (or places them in a basket in the neck of a pot still for the distillation) to get a carefully crafted balance of flavors, I couldn't bring myself to muddy that up with olive brine. Seems like a travesty.

Jeff

[cowdery]

The race to 80 proof (40% abv) in the U.S. has been a function of consumer preference and taxation.

Altough one always wonders why people can't figure out how to add their own water, the fact is that most people prefer the lower proofs.

Taxation is a factor because the federal excise tax (as well as some local taxes) is based on alcohol content. When Jack Daniel's cut its proof from 86 to 80 a few years ago, it saved $10 million a year in taxes.

It stops at 80 because anything below 80 (with a couple of exceptions) has to be labelled "diluted." One-hundred was the most common proof for spirits, both white and brown, until the 1950s. Then the two factors mentioned above started to push it downwards.

A proof cut is like an invisible price increase.

Many brands initially offered both a higher and lower proof product and a few still do although, especially with white spirits, you almost never see anything except 80 proof.

[ratcheer]

Gary, I remember when the better gins (Beefeaters, Bombay, Tanqueray, etc) were all over 90 proof. I think 94 was common. So, that has changed? I hadn't noticed, but I have a few bottles of various brands on hand and I will check.

Tim

Okay, here is what I found around the house:

Bombay - 86 proof

Bombay Sapphire - 94 proof

Broker's - 94 proof

Seagram's - 80 proof

There is a bottle of Tanqueray somewhere in the freezer, but I can't find it. It is one of those old, large chest-type freezers.

Tim

[wadewood]

There is a bottle of Tanqueray somewhere in the freezer, but I can't find it. It is one of those old, large chest-type freezers.

Tim

maybe Jimmy Hoffa is in there as well!

[gr8erdane]

Naw, Jimmy didn't drink gin, he's more likely in my freezer with the EC 18.

For a token on-topic note, I don't drink gin myself but keep Bombay Sapphire on the bar and have an old 375/Pint of Boodles that someone gave me. Is Boodles any good?

[Nebraska]

Wow,

I was going to comment that I currently drink Bombay Sapphire, but had really not noticed any difference between it and regular Bombay. I had no idea there was a proof difference!

I've tried Hendrick's but much prefer the Bombay. I am going to see if I can't track down a bottle of ... crap:banghead: ...I can't remember the name now that I'm typing the post! What ever that was ...oh yeah...Plymouth!

I'm a big gin and tonic fan in the summer. Good summer time cooler downer.

[Gillman]

I've been impressed by the abv reports of many well-known and other brands of gin. I will check again at our outlets and try to make specific comparisons.

Gary

[JeffRenner]

I've been impressed by the abv reports of many well-known and other brands of gin.

The Michigan state list of gins available here lists proofs (pull down "gin" in the "liquor type" menu). It's an easy place to compare at least those.

It's also a handy place to check availability and minimum price of all spirits in this controlled state.

I will check again at our outlets and try to make specific comparisons.

I was just checking the LCBO web site and see that some of our higher proof gins are 80 proof in Ontario, but not all. Some that stood out:

Beefeater (94 vs. 80)

Bombay Sapphire (94 vs. 80)

Broker's (94 vs. 80)

Citadelle (88 both)

Hendrick's (88 both)

Magellan (88 both)

Tanqueray (94.6 vs. 80) but not Tanqueray No. Ten (94.6 both places)

Most of the rest seemed to be 80 proof in both places, and each had some higher proofs that weren't carried in the other.

Doesn't look like I'll be going to Ontario for gin.

Jeff

[Gillman]

Thanks Jeff, this is illuminating. Some major brands are clearly only at 80 proof here. However I see some are higher than I thought. Overall though, it seems we don't get as many at the higher proofs as elsewhere.

Gary

[gr8erdane]

Correction, the pint is Booth's not Boodles. Tax stamped but open.

[ratcheer]

All this talk about gin got me to make a martini, last night. Bombay Sapphire, Martini & Rossi, and two large stuffed Manzanilla olives. Delicious!

Tim

[kbuzbee]

Given that a cocktail is no better than it's weakest component, discussion on qualities (and of course, brands) of tonic???

Ken

[Nebraska]

Oddly enough I haven't noticed big differences in tonics. What I have noticed is that there is a big difference between tonic bottled in glass as opposed to plastic. I always thought the tonic in glass bottling was far better.

Alas, finding tonic in a glass bottle at a reasonable price has nearly beome a thing of the past.

[bluesbassdad]

In the same vein as the discussion of caramel, butterscotch, etc. in a recent, bourbon-related thread it just struck me that I have no idea as to the composition of tonic water. I suppose if I were a gin & tonic drinker, I might have been curious enough to look into it before now.

A search yielded this description of the ingredients and this commentary, which touches on its origin. Obviously, there must be much more to say on the topic of tonic.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield