Woodford Reserve

[MarcV]

No there weren't. You must have misunderstood something. Brown-Forman closed Labrot and Graham (i.e., Woodford Reserve) in 1964 and sold it. They had owned and operated it for about 20 years at that point, and it was a column still operation.

Thanks for correcting me. There were definitely many, many barrels of aging product in the warehouse when we were there. If they had been shipped in from other distilleries, I wouldn't have known without being told.

What do you suppose we were tasting, and purchasing, in their store? (Aside from the fresh stuff which was going into barrels the day we were there, that is.)

If you are right, Chuck, we were badly misled on the tour (which was free back then) and even the bottles with their Labrot & Graham labels were misleading.

Incidentally, they explained that heat was only added in the coldest winter nights and that proper aging required temperature changes, not constant temperature. Now, with what's been presented here about heating and cooling, I'm beginning to wonder if anything they said could be believed.

Good thing the tour was free; from what I'm learning here, I'd demand a refund!

[SBOmarc]

As far as I can read, there has rarely been this type of discussion concerning BOTM's. Sooner or later we will run out of pours that are readily available to most. I learn something each and every time these discussions occur. There are currently 2 different threads on the board chewing up WR. For a bourbon that so far most do not count among their fav's, it sure did inspire some very informative and passionate points. That is why I enjoy SB.com.

That and the Chuck Norris jokes.

[Gillman]

I would propose that ultimately BOTM be extended to American (blended) whiskey, Canadian whisky, vodka and yet more.

Gary

[jeff]

Vodka? Gary, have you been drinking? :slappin:

[cowdery]

Vodka? Gary, have you been drinking? :slappin:

From what I can tell, the answer is "everything that isn't nailed down." :slappin: :slappin:

[Gillman]

I suspect there are many on the board who are not unfamiliar with vodka and other bibulous specialties. To the suggestion I "like it all", I would say rather, I am interested in understanding, and essaying, the wide world of stimulating drinks. Bourbon is and must always be our loadstone but why not consider the many satellite drinks that exist and indeed are related (one way or another) to bourbon?

Gary

[SBOmarc]

From what I can tell, the answer is "everything that isn't nailed down." :slappin: :slappin:

Now that's funny.

[cowdery]

What do you suppose we were tasting, and purchasing, in their store? (Aside from the fresh stuff which was going into barrels the day we were there, that is.)

Incidentally, they explained that heat was only added in the coldest winter nights and that proper aging required temperature changes, not constant temperature. Now, with what's been presented here about heating and cooling, I'm beginning to wonder if anything they said could be believed.

In 1997, any bottled whiskey would have been 100% whiskey that was distilled at the Jefferson County plant and mostly aged there, though it may have spent a year in barrels at Woodford and would have been dumped and bottled at Woodford.

Brown-Forman never lied about the source of the whiskey in those early bottlings of WRDS, but they didn't volunteer the information either. If people -- thinking about the aging cycle and knowing when they started distilling there -- asked the question, they were given the true answer.

As for what they told you about the heat cycling, it's possible and in fact likely that they have refined what they've been doing with that over the past decade, so what they are doing now may be somewhat different from what they were doing then. The principle is constant, however. In theory, at least, when whiskey gets below a certain temperature it is essentially dormant. No aging is taking place. That's the theory (there are some who disagree with it). So the idea is to simulate what happens in the summer, where it gets warm then cools off. They don't heat the warehouse continuously, they cycle it, which means heating it to a certain temperature, holding it at that temperature for a time, then turning the heat off, letting it cool down, then repeating the cycle.

In slight defense of the tour guides, I'm sure they get a reasonable amount of training, but they aren't experts, in that they only know what they've been taught, and that percentage of what they've been taught which they have absorbed. It isn't like they are actually involved in the production and also giving tours. Also, what they are taught is simplified so they can understand and remember it, and for the tourists most of whom are going to learn everything they will ever know about whiskey-making on that tour. The person who comes there already knowing something -- anything -- is the exception. Where they get tripped up is when they have a visitor whose knowledge equals or exceeds their own, who asks a question they simply can't answer. As with any situation when that happens, the right response is to say you don't know and, if possible, try to ask someone along the way who might. Instead, though, it's human nature to try to reason out an answer, which they often do incorrectly.

Most of these distilleries, if you ask, will spring a manager or someone else who actually knows something, either to give you a tour or at least spend some time with you to answer questions. If you want to do that it's a good idea to call in advance, but even at the last minute most of them will find someone who can answer questions intelligently for you. For the average tourist, the average tour guide is fine. The information is generally accurate and pitched at the right level.

I'll even make a slight pass at defending WR for charging a modest fee. Being where they are, there are a lot of professional tour companies that primarily give horse farm tours, but occasionally visit other attractions, such as distilleries. Because of its location, WR gets more of this than the others. So here they have busloads full of people, all of whom have paid a pretty penny to the tour operators, coming through and WR gets nothing for it. Since they're hardly making a killing at $5 a head, I think they did it to actually discourage some of the tour operators from casually including them on their itineraries.

[hollywood]

I agree with TNbourbon's post...those not agreeing with his assessment with the low batch numbers can forward their bottles to me!

[gr8erdane]

Gary, I'm still waiting for you to get down to a bourbon/rye/canadian/irish/scotch/vodka/rum/gin/tequila vatting complete with tasting notes. Long live the King of Mingling!:bowdown: :slappin: :slappin: :slappin:

[Gillman]

Haven't quite gone that far Dane, but I have one which mingles mostly bourbon, straight rye, some Canadian, some vodka and some unpeated malt whisky. It is a very good rich whisky. I use it for Manhattans but it is very good neat too. This sounds exotic but Canadian whisky is (or was, some of it) built in a similar fashion by combining a high proof base with corn, rye and or barley whiskies. It's all been done before! And if you added juniper from gin (the non-juniper part is just GNS), that is a flavouring I'd need to consider, i.e., if it can match a whiskey taste. I think it could if the whiskey was light in taste and dry. Some malt whiskies are said to have a juniper-like taste (St. Magdalene for the collectors out there - it doesn't produce any more). Tequila, well, I'm not so sure. Maybe you could blend it with a sweet rich whiskey that was otherwise not too assertive: say 2/3rds Elmer T. Lee and 1/3rd any good reposado? Hombres, let's check it out.

Gary

[tmas]

Woodford Reserve was good early -- look for low batch numbers with Lincoln Henderson's signature -- but quite variable for the past several years. Run a search for titles containing "Woodford Reserve" and you'll get quite a number of returns. Here's one:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3284&highlight=Woodford+Reserve

Hi Tim, I was wondering how low those batch #'s would be that might represent Woodford in it's earlier more tasty state. I saw a liter bottle today that had Henerson's signature and was from batch #36. Tom V

[TNbourbon]

Hi Tim, I was wondering how low those batch #'s would be that might represent Woodford in it's earlier more tasty state. I saw a liter bottle today that had Henerson's signature and was from batch #36. Tom V

In the 750ml size, the WR-distilled, copper-pot whiskey began being added at or about Batch 90 (in Fall 2003). Everything before that would be from the barrels plucked out of aging Old Forester whiskey and transferred to Woodford County.

[tmas]

In the 750ml size, the WR-distilled, copper-pot whiskey began being added at or about Batch 90 (in Fall 2003). Everything before that would be from the barrels plucked out of aging Old Forester whiskey and transferred to Woodford County.

Thanks for that info Tim. Do you happen to know how the batch #s equate to the Old Forester whiskey on the liter size bottles? I'm guessing maybe the liter bottles came later and were numbered differently. It seems whenever I see a WR bottle with a low batch # on it and Henderson's signature it's a liter bottle. Tom V

[BourbonJoe]

For those members living in Pennsylvania, the PALCB has the Woodford Reserve 750 ml. price reduced $6.00 to $23.00. Not a bad price. Hurry, only good till the end of the month.

Joe :usflag: