Drinking and driving

[nor02lei]

One thing has puzzled me more than anything else after joining this forum. It is the drinking and driving subject. Starting and processing on my planning for a Kentucky visit have really increased it to a real inferno. Reading the forum I get the impression that everybody how is going around on distillery visits are travelling in their cars (I guess partly because it in some cases it is the only possibility). The same goes for tasting events like the ones the study group on the west coast have for instance. As the limit of alcohol that is allowed in the blood when driving in Kentucky and as I understand in must other parts of USA as well is 0.08 parts per 1000 this mean as I see it that you cant drink anything at all shortly before you are going to drive. My question is the following. How do you manage this? Do you spit, have friends that drive you or do you simply do the visits/tasting events without drinking?

A bit of the same appeared to me when surfing around on bars and restaurants pages in Louisville. The homepages are very well made indeed with menus and bar lists including prices not only for food but also for whiskey and beer. But than comes the puzzling thing again. On the directions it always describes how to get there by car. I have got a big map from the Louisville tarc buss company so I know you can get anywhere in downtown and most places in the roundings as well with bus so way describe how to get there by car when they do their living by selling drinks containing alcohol? In Stockholm the ads both on the net and in newspaper for bars/restaurant’s always has the direction by subway and/or bus and in many cases even the text “don’t drink and driveâ€. Still the allowed level is 2.5times higher in Sweden.

Leif

[Gillman]

Leif, in the visits I've done, we usually don't sample whiskey during the tours. First, it is not always possible to taste whiskey on a tour. When I toured Trace, I did it myself, just walked around, asked questions. I wasn't part of a tour, there was no tasting.

When I toured with a standard group Maker's Mark I don't think we were offered a taste, or if we were, I left before that happened.

Where I did taste, it was a small sip only, less than one drink in total over the afternoon of touring.

There are so many opportunities to sample during KBF when in Bardstown (i.e., when not driving) that it is not really necessary to do it during distillery tours. Of course if tasting is made available and you are driving, one should either pass or take very little to ensure compliance with the DUI rules. I try as far as possible not to take anything when driving there. It is a good discipline and best to leave it for the KBF events at night and Gazebo affairs when one is safely off the road.

If those events take you outside Bardstown (e.g., Gala and some other KBF events) it is usually possible by prior arrangement to go with a group in which there is a "designated driver". Or, arrange for a taxi.

Gary

[JeffRenner]

I understand in must other parts of USA as well is 0.08 parts per 1000 this mean as I see it that you cant drink anything at all shortly before you are going to drive.

MATH ALERT!

You are needlessly worrying yourself, Leif. You are off by a factor of ten. :grin:

The BAC limit is 0.08 per cent, not per thousand.

This is actually rather a generous limit compared to most countries in Europe. And it has been reduced from 0.10 per cent only in the last few years.

If you want to get an idea of what level of BAC a given amount of alcohol produces, check out the BAC calculator at the American Homebrewers Association web site.

Have fun in Bardstown. I can't make it as I am going to UK for two weeks and returning just as it begins.

Jeff

[wadewood]

BT and Woodford do have a tasting at the end of their tours. But both are very tiny, maybe 1/8 of an ounce (3.7ml).

[nor02lei]

MATH ALERT!

You are needlessly worrying yourself, Leif. You are off by a factor of ten. :grin:

The BAC limit is 0.08 per cent, not per thousand.

This is actually rather a generous limit compared to most countries in Europe. And it has been reduced from 0.10 per cent only in the last few years.

If you want to get an idea of what level of BAC a given amount of alcohol produces, check out the BAC calculator at the American Homebrewers Association web site.

Have fun in Bardstown. I can't make it as I am going to UK for two weeks and returning just as it begins.

Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks for your correction. However I have got answers from several directions in this matter. Are you really sure about this? If you lock at the search function and go back to me original thread you will see that I have had different answers on this problem. However I did get stuck with the answer that the limit is 0.08 parts per 1000. If it is parts per 100 it is a completely different thing.

Leif

[JeffRenner]

Thanks for your correction. However I have got answers from several directions in this matter. Are you really sure about this?

Yes, Leif, I am sure of this. You can Google blood alcohol level limit and find a number of sources. Here is the number one hit - Wikipedia.

Hope this helps you relax while drinking bourbon, but not too much! The advice above on how to pace yourself still applies.

Jeff

[TNbourbon]

Of course, it's also why many of us take rooms at the General Nelson -- not just to be near the Gazebo (which is a plenty good-enough excuse), but to avoid driving after tasting there. It's also an easy walk to downtown Bardstown and the Festival lawn.

As Gary notes, designated drivers can also be available for more distant events, as most everyone drives, but not everyone imbibes.

[nor02lei]

Yes, Leif, I am sure of this. You can Google blood alcohol level limit and find a number of sources. Here is the number one hit - Wikipedia.

Hope this helps you relax while drinking bourbon, but not too much! The advice above on how to pace yourself still applies.

Jeff

Jeff,

I did look at the first page you did propose. This is one of the thing s it said.

“The average metabolism rate for moderate drinkers produces a .017 per hour decline in blood-alcohol content (BAC) level. For example, if your BAC is .08% and you have stopped drinking, it will take about one hour for your body to reduce BAC to .063%.â€

In Sweden we say the body decline about 0.2 parts per 1000 per hour. Me and some of my friends have checked this by alcohol testers and it fits in all right. That would defiantly mean you are right. However how could I have had the wrong answer for this extremely important matter for such a long time? As I see it it’s a very simple matter.

Leif

[smokinjoe]

Of course, it's also why many of us take rooms at the General Nelson -- not just to be near the Gazebo (which is a plenty good-enough excuse), but to avoid driving after tasting there. It's also an easy walk to downtown Bardstown and the Festival lawn.

As Gary notes, designated drivers can also be available for more distant events, as most everyone drives, but not everyone imbibes.

In adding to Tim's mention of the Gen. Nelson, Troyce and I have gone to the Bourbon, Jazz, and Cigar function the last couple of years. Bobbie at the Gen. Nelson has set us up with a free shuttle service to the venue (which is not within walking distance). I'm not sure, but this shuttle service may be available for other events as well?

JOE

[BSS]

Hitting .08 is a lot easier than most people think. If I have one drink, I'm borderline. So I don't take any chances myself.

[Special Reserve]

Here is a link to the State of Wisconsin Department of Transportation to estimate your blood alcohol concentration. If you Google "blood alcohol concentration calculator" you will find many more.

http://www.dot.state.wi.us/safety/motorist/drunkdriving/calculator.htm

0.08% for an occasional or modest drinker is more than most people think and is much less than a "professional" drink thinks.

[ratcheer]

Now, I am confused. I used the Wisconsin DOT calculator. I entered a weight of 220 lbs, and 4 beers over a two hour time period. It responds with 0.046.

That sounds like a lot of beer and the answer isn't very high.

What am I missing?

I tried again with 4 beers over one hour, and it still only says 0.058.

Tim

[Special Reserve]

Tim,

I entered your scenario on several other BAC calculators and I reproduced it on everyone. Some reported to two decimal places while others up to four decimal places.

The DUI law site did say that even though this is below the legal limit is most state, you could still be charged with DUI/DWI if your driving was impaired.

Will

[nor02lei]

I want to thank everybody and especially Jeff for helping me sort out this matter ones for all. My yearlong misunderstanding made me do some bad planning like for instant visiting the 2 nearby distilleries WT and 4 Rosen on 2 different days. But as we say in Sweden: “Man ska inte grÃ¥ta över spilld mjölkâ€(One shall not cry over spilled milk) and on the positive side this gives me for instance opportunity to discover the city of Frankfurt after any of my distillery visits. It also explain all the advises that I have got about how handy it is to have a car around. 0.08 parts per100 mean that it’s no problem to drink moderate amounts and still drive legal.

Leif

[BSS]

Leif,

I just wouldn't take the advice, (which I don't know if it has really been given the way you state it), that you can drink moderate amounts and still drive. Maybe my definition of moderate is different than yours. Like someone else said, you can still get thrown in the pokey for the night for blowing under .08. Which will quickly ruin your trip. You probably won't get convicted of DUI, but you can still get arrested.

Since you have already posted regarding your driving/navigation skills; I would be very cautious of drinking and driving. One thing cops look for is people that are driving really slow and don't appear to know where they are going, and I think you might fit into that catagory without anything to drink.

[nor02lei]

Like someone else said, you can still get thrown in the pokey for the night for blowing under .08. Which will quickly ruin your trip. You probably won't get convicted of DUI, but you can still get arrested.

On what grounds? If you blow under 0.08you blow under 0.08.

Since you have already posted regarding your driving/navigation skills; I would be very cautious of drinking and driving. One thing cops look for is people that are driving really slow and don't appear to know where they are going, and I think you might fit into that catagory without anything to drink.

Is it a crime in USA to drive really slow and don't appear to know where you are going?

[boone]

On what grounds? If you blow under 0.08you blow under 0.08.

Is it a crime in USA to drive really slow and don't appear to know where you are going?

Hey...Dim your headlights at night...

Not long ago a Kentucky State Trooper pulled me over because I didn't dim my headlights...The first question I asked him (in a very upleasant tone) what have I done wrong for you to make a U-turn in the middle of the road to pull me over?...He told me that the first signal of a drunk driver was the "lights dim" issue...He could smell the bourbon reeking from my clothes. He asked if I had been drinking? All the while he was shinning a flashlight in my face!...Very, very close to my face!

I told him exactly what I thought. I vented my opinion about driving that road all these years and some of the stuff I have witnessed, with no law in sight late night!...Mind you, I was so pissed off that I wanted to smack that young man!

Rest assured...If you are guilty, you will pay the price. If you are innocent, you walk away...even if you reek of bourbon (as I did that night) you won't go to jail.

If you don't drink and drive, you are safe.

We all are :grin: :grin: :grin:

To make a long story short.

Dim you lights :grin: :grin: :grin:

Bettye Jo

[nor02lei]

Hey...Dim your headlights at night...

Not long ago a Kentucky State Trooper pulled me over because I didn't dim my headlights...The first question I asked him (in a very upleasant tone) what have I done wrong for you to make a U-turn in the middle of the road to pull me over?...He told me that the first signal of a drunk driver was the "lights dim" issue...He could smell the bourbon reeking from my clothes. He asked if I had been drinking? All the while he was shinning a flashlight in my face!...Very, very close to my face!

I told him exactly what I thought. I vented my opinion about driving that road all these years and some of the stuff I have witnessed, with no law in sight late night!...Mind you, I was so pissed off that I wanted to smack that young man!

To make a long story short.

Dim you lights :grin: :grin: :grin:

Bettye Jo

Bettye Jo,

It works the same way in Sweden as well. Any kind of odd behaviour when driving can make the police suspect that you have been drinking and pull you over and make you blow. However you can never get any kind of penalty for drinking and driving as long as you blow under the limit. That’s the purpose of the limit.

Leif

[bluesbassdad]

However you can never get any kind of penalty for drinking and driving as long as you blow under the limit.

Leif,

Although I am not familiar with the law in Kentucky, I can tell you for certain that in California and Arizona it doesn't work that way. Testing at 0.08% BAC or above is legally defined as conclusive proof of driving while impaired. However, a result lower than 0.08% is not legally defined as proof that the drive is not impaired.

I've never looked at the law itself, but the driver's license booklet in California says specifically that some drivers may be impaired a a level less than 0.08%. Presumably evidence of any level of BAC plus testimony by the arresting officer that the driver was not adequately controlling the vehicle would be sufficient to prove the charge of driving under the influence.

I hope all of the discussion on this subject helps you have a more enjoyable vacation. I'm sure that is everyone else's intent, too.

Here is an online version of Kentucky's driver's manual. The information regarding DUI starts around page 62 (page 71 within the pdf document).

The Arizona driver's manual reads as follows:

DUI Penalties

If you are stopped for driving under the influence and

a test shows that you have an alcohol concentration of

0.08 percent or more (0.04 in a commercial vehicle

requiring a commercial driver license), you will lose

your driving privilege on the spot.

It should be understood that you may be found guilty of

driving while intoxicated even though the BAC was less

than 0.08 percent. [Emphasis, mine.]

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[BSS]

Leif

Dave answered your "on what grounds" question pretty well. If you did blow under .08 and got arrested, you would probably get the charge downgraded to wreckless driving when you went to court; however I don't think you want to deal with that.

Actually driving well under the speed limit combined with someone driving like they don't know where they are going is one of the best hints to a cop that someone is driving drunk. And yes you can get fined for driving well under the speed limit. I'm just telling you that certain cops look for the slightest thing to pull someone over. Just giving you my advice.

Personally I would never have 3-4 drinks and drive. I feel that I can drive perfectly well at that amount, but I would blow over the limit. Thus I would not do it.

Enjoy your trip.

[nor02lei]

Leif,

Although I am not familiar with the law in Kentucky, I can tell you for certain that in California and Arizona it doesn't work that way. Testing at 0.08% BAC or above is legally defined as conclusive proof of driving while impaired. However, a result lower than 0.08% is not legally defined as proof that the drive is not impaired.

I've never looked at the law itself, but the driver's license booklet in California says specifically that some drivers may be impaired a a level less than 0.08%. Presumably evidence of any level of BAC plus testimony by the arresting officer that the driver was not adequately controlling the vehicle would be sufficient to prove the charge of driving under the influence.

I hope all of the discussion on this subject helps you have a more enjoyable vacation. I'm sure that is everyone else's intent, too.

Here is an online version of Kentucky's driver's manual. The information regarding DUI starts around page 62 (page 71 within the pdf document).

The Arizona driver's manual reads as follows:

DUI Penalties

If you are stopped for driving under the influence and

a test shows that you have an alcohol concentration of

0.08 percent or more (0.04 in a commercial vehicle

requiring a commercial driver license), you will lose

your driving privilege on the spot.

It should be understood that you may be found guilty of

driving while intoxicated even though the BAC was less

than 0.08 percent. [Emphasis, mine.]

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

Dave,

I must say that I’m still confused in this very important matter. As I interpret your information 0.08 is the ground rule, but if it is obvious that your driving ability are set aside by drinking alcohol you can get a penalty even if you blow under the limit. In that case the “obvious†thing is up to the cop that pull you over to decide. Personally I am sure that my driving ability are not effected at all up to 0.05 however I guess there is a small chance it may be slightly diluted in the 0.05-0.08 area.

Leif

[BSS]

You have to keep in mind that there are other drugs that you can get a DUI for being on, and you can't blow into a machine to detect them. Thus, the police have the option of arresting someone for DUI even if they don't blow a .08. That is just one reason you can get arrested blowing below .08.

[nor02lei]

You have to keep in mind that there are other drugs that you can get a DUI for being on, and you can't blow into a machine to detect them. Thus, the police have the option of arresting someone for DUI even if they don't blow a .08. That is just one reason you can get arrested blowing below .08.

Its the same with drugs here to but it have to be confirmed by blood test.

Leif

[bluesbassdad]

Leif,

Judging from your response it appears to me that you understand the facts of the situation, if not the rationale behind them.

If I am mistaken and you still have questions as to matters of fact, I will do what I can to help you find the answers.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[nor02lei]

Leif,

Judging from your response it appears to me that you understand the facts of the situation, if not the rationale behind them.

Dave Morefield

Dave,

I do actually think I understand both the facts and rationale by now. However I think this give the polis officer that pull you over far too big responsibility and power. It would be better to lower the limit a bit and just go for that as I see it. But as things are as they are I will try to adjust my driving after the existing rules as well as I can.

Leif