Irish Whisky

[tdt91]

Hello all, my first time here but not my last. I was in Ireland in May of 06 and tryed some different Whisky's in a pub. My favorite was Paddy. Brought 2 bottles home and now looking for more but you cannot get it in the states. Has anyone else ever tried Paddy?

I took the Jameson Distillery tour and was selected to do a taste test. They used Jameson, Powers, Paddy, Jack Daniels, and a top rated Scotch.

I of course picked Paddy. My next favorite was Jack then Jameson then Powers and could not even stand the smell of the Scotch.

I'll drink to that!!!

TDT91

[ILLfarmboy]

Welcome.

No I've never had Paddy. My favorite Irishes are Redbreast, Jameson 12, Blackbush and powers in that order. I'm surprised you chose JD over Powers. Not saying your wrong, after all taste is subjective. A lot of people 'round here look down on Jack D. but I drink it.

[tdt91]

I grew up in Ill. Earlville. My parents live in Ottawa now. I live just north of Baltimore,MD.

I just read here that you can get Paddy in some of the Duty Free shops in the Air Ports. Ohare was mentioned. I'll be flying alot this spring and you know I'll be looking for it. I'm having a sip of Walkers deluxe at the moment.

[ThomasH]

I've never had Paddy's but wopuld love to try it. My favorite Irish wiskeys are all the more aged brands: Tullamore Dew 12, Jameson 12, Redbreast, Bushmills 1608 etc. I think Irish whiskey is absolutely fantastic. If anyone can get bottles of Paddy's, I would buy one in a minute!

Thomas

[T47]

I have never had Paddys either. I really enjoy Irish Whiskey. My current favorite is Redbreast. I have bottles of Black Bush, Bushmills Original, Bushmills 10, Knappogue Castle 1992, Tullemore Dew, and Powers. I have tried the Michael Collins Blend and enjoyed it, I hear the Single malt is very good but we don't have that in WA. as of yet.

We do have the Tullemore Dew 12, I will have to try that. I would like to try the Bushmills 21, but will probably try and find it at a restaurant first as it is so darn expensive.

I have yet to try Connemara, I think that might be one that disagrees with me as I hear it has a strong peat flavor.

Like Bourbon, I have yet to have an Irish I would not have again. Some are better than others, but I have found something to enjoy in all of them.

[cowdery]

The thing about Irish whiskey that gets me is that Ireland is even worse than the USA in terms of everything coming from the same couple of distilleries. There are only three: Middleton, Cooley and Bushmills. Most of what you hear about -- Jameson, Tullamore, Paddy's -- all come from Middleton. They do make both column-distilled grain whiskey and pot-distilled malt whiskey there, so you could say it's two distilleries at the same location, and just like with the USA, with any aged product there's a lot to be said for profiling differences, but ultimately you wish there were more producers, both here and there.

[brockagh]

The thing about Irish whiskey that gets me is that Ireland is even worse than the USA in terms of everything coming from the same couple of distilleries. There are only three: Middleton, Cooley and Bushmills. Most of what you hear about -- Jameson, Tullamore, Paddy's -- all come from Middleton. They do make both column-distilled grain whiskey and pot-distilled malt whiskey there, so you could say it's two distilleries at the same location, and just like with the USA, with any aged product there's a lot to be said for profiling differences, but ultimately you wish there were more producers, both here and there.

Paddy is unique, in that it's a blend of pot still whiskey, grain whiskey and malt whiskey. The malt comes from Bushmills, and the rest comes from Midleton. It wouldn't be a favorite of mine, but it has a big following in Co. Cork, in Ireland. All the other Irish blends are a mix of either malt and grain, or pot still and grain.

You're right about there being far too few distilleries in Ireland. However, most of the whiskeys are made in Midleton, and this is probably the most complex distillery in the world. Powers, Jameson and Cork Distillers all merged and moved their production to one purpose built distillery designed to have the cpaacity to make whiskey in the style of MIdleton, Jameson, Paddy Powers.... At Midleton, they have four massive pot stills and seven column stills. The distillate streams can be moved from teh pot still side to the column still side. They also use different malted and unmalted barley ratios depending on what brand they're producing.

You may know that there were once hundreds of distilleries in Ireland. But for one reason or another, the whole industry collapsed - war with the British Empire, prohibition in the U.S., taxation...

Hopefully, the Kilbeggan distillery will open again soon. The plan is to have it up and running by the end of the decade.

[ThomasH]

As far as Irish whiskey, I am not a huge fan of Bushmills, especially the regular white label. I have a bottle of the 1608 12yr. that was only sold in duty free. As fantastic as this blend is, I don't think it is available anymore. My personal favorite is Tullamore 12yr. Jamesons 12 is also quite good but has a different taste to it than the Tullamore, even though both are made at Midleton. As far as standard brands go, Powers is an excellent whiskey. It is said to have 60% malt content and at about 16.00 for 750ml around here it is a steal. Regular Jamesons and Tullamore Dew are also good but somewhat more expensive!

Thomas

[ILLfarmboy]

Am I imagining things or does Powers have quit a bit of pot still flavor for an inexpensive blend? It reminds me of cream soda whereas the standard Jameson's reminds me of apples specifically Granny Smith apples. I figure this is the difference between the grain whiskeys in the blend versus the pot stilled unmalted/malted barley showing itself more in the Powers.

[brockagh]

Am I imagining things or does Powers have quit a bit of pot still flavor for an inexpensive blend? It reminds me of cream soda whereas the standard Jameson's reminds me of apples specifically Granny Smith apples. I figure this is the difference between the grain whiskeys in the blend versus the pot stilled unmalted/malted barley showing itself more in the Powers.

Yes, Powers has much more pot still than the standard Jameson. There's no malt in it. They say it's distillate driven, rather than maturation driven.

[cowdery]

Paddy is unique, in that it's a blend of pot still whiskey, grain whiskey and malt whiskey. The malt comes from Bushmills, and the rest comes from Midleton. It wouldn't be a favorite of mine, but it has a big following in Co. Cork, in Ireland. All the other Irish blends are a mix of either malt and grain, or pot still and grain.

Isn't all malt pot and all pot malt? I thought it was the same as Scotland, malt whisky is pot-distilled, grain whiskey is column-distilled.

I know Middleton has both pots and columns, does Bushmills? I was under the impression (more like an assumption, really, based on nothing) that Bushmills makes malt whisky and the grain whisky for the Busmills blends comes from Middleton.

[Gillman]

Well, I would say not all pot is malt in the sense that "pure pot still" means whiskey distilled in a pot still from a mash made of barley malt and unmalted grains. I did not know Paddy combines malt whiskey, pure pot still (in this sense) and grain whiskey. I thought Irish blends were either malt whiskey and grain whiskey or pure pot still and grain whiskey. Bushmills uses malt whiskey made in Antrim (site of the famed Ulster Bushmills distillery) and grain whisky made at Midelton.

Gary

[fitzharry]

Isn't all malt pot and all pot malt? I thought it was the same as Scotland, malt whisky is pot-distilled, grain whiskey is column-distilled.

I know Middleton has both pots and columns, does Bushmills? I was under the impression (more like an assumption, really, based on nothing) that Bushmills makes malt whisky and the grain whisky for the Busmills blends comes from Middleton.

Chuck:

Actually, Irish pot still whiskey is a blend of malted and unmalted barley, and that's what gives it the unique taste. Redbreast 12 is pure pot still whiskey (unlike Power's and Jameson's, which are blends).

I believe that Bushmills has only pot stills, and all the grain whiskey for the Bushmills blends are indeed brought in from Midleton. Bushmills distills only malt whiskey, although it does make a few blends.

Harrison

[Gillman]

I find Black Bush a fine whiskey and value: 80% malt whiskey, 20% grain, I believe only one each is used. I think it is finished in sherry casks. I had a bottle almost full (leaving 3 ounces maybe) and topped it up with 16 year old Bushmills Malt (a version bottled only for the Liquor Control Board of Ontario) and now the BB is even better. I actually prefer it to the Bush 16 on its own which has a very unusual (for me) strong taste that Jim Murray, speaking (admiringly) of another Irish whiskey, pegged perfectly when he referred to "wet old raincoats"!

Gary

[Joeluka]

They sell a Bushmills 16 year old single malt here in the US too. Is the 16 yo you get up there not a single malt????

[Gillman]

Hi Joe and by the way, congratulations on the new birth!

This is a Bushmills Single Cask "Specially Selected For Canada". Distilled 1989. Actually, I see now that the label does not state the bottling date but there was a leaflet that came with it, which I no longer have, that I thought stated the whiskey was 16 years old. Very interesting nose of petrol, semi-oxidised sherry, and "cool glade in the forest". Very big in flavor too. It reminds me of some pure pot stills I've had even though it is all-malt (that "connection" the good Irish whiskeys have). Wet raincoats kind of sums it up too! I do enjoy it, actually, but I find this kind of whiskey is best blended and Black Bush is a fine example of the art.

Gary

[Edward_call_me_Ed]

I used to drink quite a bit of BlackBush. Since I got in bourbon in a big way two years ago I don't drink it often. I have a bottle of Bushmills 10 single malt open and have a pour occationally. I have the Paddy and like it a lot. Never had the Powers or Redbreast, but I have the Green Spot which I am told is young Redbreast. I have both Jameson and Jameson 12 and like them.

I am now waiting for the delivery of my first Bushmills 16 year old single malt.

Ed

[nickynick]

This is a Bushmills Single Cask "Specially Selected For Canada". Distilled 1989. Actually, I see now that the label does not state the bottling date but there was a leaflet that came with it, which I no longer have, that I thought stated the whiskey was 16 years old. Very interesting nose of petrol, semi-oxidised sherry, and "cool glade in the forest". Very big in flavor too. It reminds me of some pure pot stills I've had even though it is all-malt (that "connection" the good Irish whiskeys have). Wet raincoats kind of sums it up too! I do enjoy it, actually, but I find this kind of whiskey is best blended and Black Bush is a fine example of the art.

Which single cask is it? In the states we have a Sherry Cask, a Bourbon Cask and a Rum Cask. I have had the bourbon, but wasn't enough to get a feel for it. At $100+ a bottle they only gave me a little taste. I'm a big fan of Black Bush. As well as the single malts.

As for pot still whiskey, I had been reading alot about Redbreast 12 yo on this website. But at $44, I bought a bottle of Powers to see if I would even like pot still whiskey. It seems tangy, and smooth, however not as smooth as other Irish whiskies I've had. Only a 1/3 of the way through the bottle and I'm liking it more now then I did at first. I'm a bourbon drinker first, but I enjoy a good Irish often. I have Bushmills(White, Black, and SM 10) also Micheal Collins(Blend, and SM) as well as the Powers.

[ILLfarmboy]

As for pot still whiskey, I had been reading alot about Redbreast 12 yo on this website. But at $44, I bought a bottle of Powers to see if I would even like pot still whiskey. It seems tangy, and smooth, however not as smooth as other Irish whiskies I've had. Only a 1/3 of the way through the bottle and I'm liking it more now then I did at first. I'm a bourbon drinker first, but I enjoy a good Irish often. I have Bushmills(White, Black, and SM 10) also Micheal Collins(Blend, and SM) as well as the Powers.

Jameson's 1780 (the 12yr. "luxury blend" if you will) is cheaper (ten bucks cheaper in my area) than Redbreast and tastes similar certainly more full and more robust than the Powers gold label. I like the powers the best of all the budget blends.

[cowdery]

I like to think (please humor me) that I played a small part in getting Black Bush imported into the US. First, Gary, yes it is finished in sherry casks. I know it has a much higher percentage of malt than the standard, presumably 80% as you say.

Back in the early 1980s, Brown-Forman (through its Joseph Garneau subsidiary) had the U.S. distribution rights for Bushmills and the agency I was working for did some of the marketing for the brand. At the time, they strictly imported the standard blend. Some of the executives from both companies made a trip over to the distillery (I wasn't invited) and a couple brought back bottles of Black Bush in their luggage. They shared and we all loved it. Thereafter, whenever anyone was making the trip, we would all badger them to bring us some Black Bush and I obtained my first bottles of the stuff in that manner. We always joked that they finally started to import it so they wouldn't have to keep carrying it back for us in their luggage.

Sometimes when I am out with friends and my only bourbon choices are Jim, Jack and MM, I will opt for a Jameson. Otherwise I don't drink much Irish, but I'll always have a soft spot for Black Bush.

[Gillman]

Excellent! I'll bring my BB spiked with the Bush 16 to Chi in April.

Gary

[brockagh]

Yes, when I say pot still, I mean "pure pot still" in the Irish sense.

It's funny, because I often think that Bushmills has a pure pot still flavour, even though it's malt. Auchentoshan, the triple-distilled scotch whisky, does not have this.

I am not a huge fan of Bushmills, but they have released some very good single cask bottlings. And, one of my favourite malts ever is the Bushmills 1975 Millennium.

Also interesting, as Bushmills was bought by Diageo and is no longer part of Irish Distillers Group, they still have a deal in place in which they swap malt for Midleton grain, so they can both deliver their old lines.

[cowdery]

I hadn't ever known the definition of "pure pot still." Very interesting. I've always found it interesting that only the Americans mash different grains together. Everyone else makes "single grain" whiskeys, although it's possible that scottish and irish grain whiskey contains a mixture of grains, it not really mattering much since the high proof eliminates virtually all of the grain's distinctive character. Typically, grain whiskey is made from the cheapest grain available and in recent years that has been corn (maize), but I just learned recently that most have switched to wheat.

Anyway, the fact that the mash for pure pot still is made from a combination of malted and unmalted barley makes it at least a little like a bourbon mash, although not exactly since both are the same grain. Still, since "pure pot still" has been an effort to get back to a product like the traditional Irish "moonshine," known as poteen, it suggests a precursor to the American approach.

[Gillman]

That's absolutely right, Chuck, and in fact there is more evidence for your view, since, before Midleton was built in 1973 (thereabouts), pure pot still was made (in Dublin at the old plant) with a mash of, to be sure, malted and unmalted barley, but also including some unmalted rye, wheat and/or oats. The latter three were used in very small amount (less than 5% of the mash). After Midleton was built, they stopped adding rye, wheat or oats. Still, one can see in this regard a close connection to what emerged as U.S. practice. I assume that pure pot still was made in this way all over Ireland, including what is now the North (e.g. Bushmills originally made pure pot still too, is my understanding). Therefore, it's the old Scots-Irish influence at work (sorry, because I know you have doubts about that) because large-scale immigration from Eire did not occur until the mid-1800's and by then the convention for U.S. mashes had long been set.

Gary

[Gillman]

I agree Bushmills has an Irish flavour, not a Scots Lowlands flavor, even though it is triple distilled, all-malt whisky like Lowlands. Even though, that is, there are no unmalted grains used in Bushmills' pot still whisky.

I wonder what explains this. Maybe it is characteristics of Irish barleys. That, or particular maturation conditions, or maybe the yeasts used, I don't know.

Gary