What planet do we live on?

[Martian]

Tonight I tuned in to the hip sports talk radio station in Dallas. The question of the evening was what is the number one drink in sports bars right now? The answer was...................................................................

Red Bull and vodka. I almost fell out of my chair. What has happened to the martini, Bloody Mary, margarita, bourbon and 7, bourbon neat, scotch on the rocks, Manhattan? Are we getting old? What planet do we live on? It's no wonder the New World Order is in total control of this country.

[Gillman]

Kind of sad. Even had they concluded Budweiser, I'd have felt there was hope for the future (Bud's formulation has been tweaked recently to bring it closer to what it was 30 years ago - I had one at Spirit Garden and it was darn good).

Can someone tell me, please, what exactly is Red Bull? When did it first appear? What was the idea behind it? What were its progenitors, if any?

Gary

[ILLfarmboy]

What planet do we live on?

Apparently one where bad taste is the norm.

What is Red Bull?

The short answer would be: Sugar and caffeine, lots of caffeine.

Red bull is what is called an 'energy drink' hence the sugar and caffeine. It also contains added nutrients. From the lable: carbonated water, sucrose, glucose, sodium citrate, taurine, glucuronolactone, caffeine, inositol, niacinamide, calcium-pantothenate, pyridoxine HCI, vitamin B12, natural and artificial flavors, colors.

How do I know this? My wife uses it in some fruity concoction with gin, cheri-beri Pucker and God knows what else.

I've never tasted red bull but I imagine it tastes like cherry soda pop.

[mozilla]

I think it is important to note that Dallas is one of the most superficial places on the planet. Also, I have listened to some of the sports talk on 103.3....and it is not quite up to standards, especialy the morning show. As far as poor choices in liquor....kids make the worst ones, can you say Jaegermeister.

[ILLfarmboy]

....kids make the worst ones, can you say Jaegermeister.

My wife's nephew brought a bottle of that to the house once. I said: "Good lord are you down to drinking cough syrup? You know you are welcome to something from my stash!".

[cowdery]

One of my law school friends, who is pushing forty, drinks Jager bombs, which is a shot of Jager dropped into a glass of Red Bull. I tried to tell him he's too old for that sort of thing, but he had already passed out.

[robbyvirus]

I've never tasted red bull but I imagine it tastes like cherry soda pop.

No, not even close. It has a weird metallic taste, that I find singularly unpleasant. I remember tasting this cough medicine as a kid called Dimetane. It tastes like that. Weird and horrible, and I can only imagine that vodka addition does not help.

And as for Jaegermester, it's a traditional German digestif...meant to be sipped in small amounts after a meal to aid in digestion. Germans would be horrified to know how American college students drink it.

[Whiskey Willie]

Wow, a sign of the times I guess...Middle-age guys like me who drink beer and whiskey do not hang out at sports bars anymore. The young bucks are not "shot and beer" guys. They drink, well . . .

[Gillman]

Interesting, thanks. But usually something similar comes before. I think the Mike's hard lemonade-type drink was preceded by the Boone's and other pop wines from 30 years ago.

But what came before Red Bull? Was it invented out of whole cloth? Did the ginseng-flavoured drinks provide a model, or did they come after?

Gary

[Vange]

Ill add my 2 cents on red bull and vodka. I have never had red bull on its own, but I can say with vodka it probably is minimally better. So, whats the allure of RB and vodka? I have had a handful of nights where I abused this concoction.

You might ask after one abusive night, why would I go back to it? Well, it's an entirely different type of "drunk". The overdose of caffeine after about 5-6 of these drinks and the alcohol depressant really play games with your mind. You get drunk, but in a weird way you are more alert and you actually feel sober. You actually THINK you are sober. Dos this sound silly, YES, but I am just adding my experience here. I have stopped drinking ANY type of energy drink years ago , but this is just my experience with the cocktail.

[ratcheer]

I've never tasted red bull but I imagine it tastes like cherry soda pop.

I have tasted it, one of my son's gave me a couple of sips one time. It tastes kind of like flowery Sweet Tarts candy. It is very sweet, very sour, and it reminds me of the aroma of flowers. Not any specific flower, just generic "flowers". If that makes any sense.

Tim

[bigtoys]

I thought it also had some extract of bull piss.:slappin:

[craigthom]

I once heard Red Bull described as "Mountain Dew with Chinese shit in it".

That's what came before Red Bull and all the other "energy" drinks, by the way: Mountain Dew. Lots of sugar and caffeine. They've just added other stuff to it.

Is the addition of taurine for cats?

[OscarV]

(Bud's formulation has been tweaked recently to bring it closer to what it was 30 years ago - I had one at Spirit Garden and it was darn good).

Gary

Hey Gary,

Where did you hear or read that A-B has changed Budweiser's recipe and what did they do?

[Gillman]

I read a report some months ago, in, I believe, All About Beer; if it wasn't AAB magazine it was another of the consumer beer print media. The story indicated that A-B keeps samples frozen of Budweiser brewed in different decades in order in later eras to test them to determine if they resemble the current Budweiser. The conclusion from recent tests of Bud brewed in past decades was that the beer had gotten somewhat lighter in flavor and in certain markets a test, tweaked version would be introduced to see if the public would accept a fuller flavor. I think two regional cities were mentioned. The story quoted A-B as saying that adjustments are made from time to time to the brewings anyway (this seems inevitable with any consumer product) and I inferred from the story that Budweiser might soon have a fuller taste than in recent years. The story did not state in so many terms that this would happen, it was an inference I have drawn both from the tenor of what was said and my own repeated tastings of the beer in the last year in the U.S. The story did not indicate how the tweaking would occur and I assume the hop rates would increase but maybe also the percentage of barley malt in the brew.

The Bud I had recently in Bardstown (in a tall metal red can) was in my opinion more flavourful than Buds I have had in recent years. This was the regular Bud, not the Light or one of the line extensions seen in recent years. If it was the same recipe as in recent years, maybe I got a particularly fresh and good sample, but the beer struck me as better than the typical Bud of recent years.

So to summarise, I did not read anything that said per se the recipe would be changed nationally to bring it back to what it was in earlier decades, but that the company had done these tests and was considering an adjustment to the palate. By my own tastings recently, the beer seems to have improved and offer the characteristic taste I recall from 30 years ago.

Gary

[OscarV]

I read that same article around spring 2006, where Busch admitted that they cut the hops in Budweiser.

About 10 years ago I noticed a change in the taste of Budweiser but I thought it was just me.

The Sam Adams commercials showing how much hops they use compared to other American brewies is a slam at Anheuser-Busch, well justified.

They say out of one side of their mouth that the imports and micro-brewies are eating into their sales. But out the other side they say they wanted to make Budweiser a lighter and sweeter taste for today's younger beer drinkers.

So I don't know what they are doing.

But Budweiser sales are down over recent years, alot of that is due to Bud Light and Bud Select.

[Gillman]

In the 1970's, I recall Budweiser having a relatively full, rich taste. Michelob too. One's memory can play tricks sometimes but the beers seem to me (and to some others I see) to have gotten lighter over 30 years. I thought A-B acknowledged this in that article for Bud, anyway. I find that the recent Budweiser is better and has more of the characteristic taste I recall from the 1970's. As for Michelob, it was reformulated into an all-malt beer but it seems different than the Mich of the 1970's, drier and with a citric-like taste I don't recall from then. But I would certainly buy Budweiser again. It will not be a substitute for the countless import and craft beers I admire, but it can stand with the top commercial beers if restored to the palate of 30 years ago at least. If there was some way to do this, it would be interesting to taste it as it was, say, in 1940 and 1890.

Coors too seems less flavorful to me today. In the 1970's, it seemed to have a flowery top-note that clearly was from hops albeit in a light interpretation of the international lager style. Today, it seems very bland to me in palate. However, the company does offer alternatives, e.g., George Killian which I like and Blue Moon.

Gary

[OscarV]

I'm just upset with Anheuser-Busch's treatment of Budweiser.

I just can't get over the fact that they screwed with The King Of Beers.

They have Bud Light and now Bud Select, whatever that is, so why not give us a hopped-up Bud?

I remember when Budweiser had a bite. You could ice it down and get it super cold and the "Bud bite" would still be there.

Yes, I to would love to taste the Bud from the past. Not just Bud but all the great stuff that came from Milwaukee.

From what I understand the German immigrant beer brewers in America lightened up their beers in the late 1800's because Amereica had hotter and longer summers than Germany. And of course it was lightened up again after prohabition, because people were used to watered down beer.

After trying them all in the late '60's to early '70's I settled on Schlitz, some said was to buttery but I loved it.

But they changed their recipe in the mid '70's and killed themselves. It was so bad after that.

I always considered Coor's as carbonated water. But I will say, it had a good all natural carbonation, it had a body but no taste.

[craigthom]

The Sam Adams commercials showing how much hops they use compared to other American brewies is a slam at Anheuser-Busch, well justified.

But they go on and on about what an impressive amount of hops they put in Sam Adams, when that just isn't the case. They may well put more in than A-B, but Sam Adams is far from a hoppy beer, and there are dozens of beers made in the US with far more hops than Sam Adams. Sierra Nevada and Red Hook leave Sam Adams in the dust.

One of my most surprising beer moments was when I toured the Pabst distillery in Milwaukee (God rest its soul). The free beer at the end of the tour was surprisingly good. It may well have been the best mainstream pale watery American pils I've ever had. It had hops in both the nose and the finish. I was shocked.

It's my understanding that it wasn't so much the recipe that Schlitz messed with but their move to a continuous fermenter of some sort that killed their beer. They switched back, but it was too late. The damage had been done.

(I worked in Milwaukee for four years, and I spent just as much time throwing myself into Milwaukee brewing history as I have into bourbon since I moved to Louisville. I get a bit carried away sometimes.)

[NorCalBoozer]

But what came before Red Bull? Was it invented out of whole cloth? Did the ginseng-flavoured drinks provide a model, or did they come after?

Gary

Living in Japan in the mid 80's I remember a few energy type drinks that resembled the current Red Bull, right down to the smaller metal can. We would buy them from the soda machines. They were also big into iced coffee in a small metal can.

[TBoner]

But they go on and on about what an impressive amount of hops they put in Sam Adams, when that just isn't the case. They may well put more in than A-B, but Sam Adams is far from a hoppy beer, and there are dozens of beers made in the US with far more hops than Sam Adams. Sierra Nevada and Red Hook leave Sam Adams in the dust.

Sam Adams has more International Bitterness Units (IBUs) than Red Hook and is 1 IBU shy of SNPA. There's also a healthy dose of finishing hops, which don't add bitterness but clearly lend flavor and aroma. The hops are continental hops with a more floral, earthy character, so they don't come through as clearly as citrusy American hops (which many, myself NOT included, consider too in your face). SA is also not as dry as SNPA, and the malty character provides some balance to the bitterness. Sam Adams is a very hoppy beer, especially as a lager, and is the better for it. Love the floral aroma of a fresh one.

[craigthom]

Sam Adams has more International Bitterness Units (IBUs) than Red Hook and is 1 IBU shy of SNPA. There's also a healthy dose of finishing hops, which don't add bitterness but clearly lend flavor and aroma.

Well, you learn something new every day. My mistake. I guess it's the in-your-face thing, from hops like Centennial, I missed from the Sam Adams (and which I prefer). The best part of the SNPA, for me, is the finishing hops, which don't really hold up well in the bottle but are beautiful from a freshly tapped keg.

Maybe it is that I prefer ales in general that I've found Sam Adams so unremarkable, or maybe it's that I've had it in the midwest while the finishing hops stayed in Pennsylvania. I consider it to be the white zinfandel of beer: it's not Gallo, but it's not something I would buy if there were other options.

(If you like the hoppy American-style of IPA and are every in southeastern Wisconsin, I recommend checking out Bitter Woman by the Tyranena Brewing Company. It's got full pucker astringency, but it's got the body to back it up, and the grassy/floral aroma from the late hop addition is big enough to make me cry. It kills me that it is only sold, pretty much, from Madison to Milwaukee, and I can't get it any more.)

[TBoner]

Just wanted to say that I checked a couple of brewing resources, and I was wrong. 35 IBUs in SA, 43 in SNPA...so mea culpa. Still, 35 is substantial and worthy of notice.

Agreed that fresh C-hopped pale ale on tap is a beautiful thing. Even a fresh bottle of SNPA can carry the aroma, but it has to be brand spanking new.

[HipFlask]

I had a bad experience with those things. At forty you are too old for it. That's experience--that shoulda known better talkin.

[jesskidden]

One of my most surprising beer moments was when I toured the Pabst distillery in Milwaukee (God rest its soul). The free beer at the end of the tour was surprisingly good. It may well have been the best mainstream pale watery American pils I've ever had. It had hops in both the nose and the finish. I was shocked.

Yeah, I had similar experiences with "industrial light lagers" during brewery tours over the years. I remember a Michelob in the early 80's at the Columbus brewery when I was *shocked* at the hoppiness (and finally understood the oft-repeated "common wisdom" at the time that Michelob in bottles was considered by some as a "failure"). I, too, sampled fresh Pabst- at the old Newark brewery, which didn't have tours, as such, but a few of us got a personal tour by a brewery worker we knew (on the night shift, so things were quite "casual"- still recall sticking my head into a giant copper kettle during a roiling boil....).

And then there was my first Yuengling tour before they got their cult following. The "tour" was just my girl friend and I being shown around by a secretary, who, during the bottling line section told me to grab a 16 oz. deposit bottle off the line before it was entering the pasteurizer. We were drinking from that bottle the rest of the tour, still had it when we got back to the office and the guide said, "Oh, here's Dick now..." and we looked up to see Dick Yuengling, Sr., still with his overcoat on but already with a small shell glass of beer in his hand.

Those experiences long ago convinced me that "light lagers" were best consumed as fresh as possible.