2007 Sazerac 18

[schlep]

A check on the BT distillery cam shows SAZ 18 going into boxes. Anyone heard of the number of bottles that will be available this year?

Dan

[mgilbertva]

Whatever it is, it won't be enough *sigh*. Saz 18 has proven the hardest BTAC to procure for me.

[cowdery]

Whatever it is, it won't be enough *sigh*. Saz 18 has proven the hardest BTAC to procure for me.

Harder than Stagg?

[Phischy]

Hell...I still know where 3 '06 stagg sits, 1 Handy and 3 Saz on the shelf and I just got a bottle of '05. W. Larue Weller '06 is my white whale.

[cowdery]

As it happens I was talking to David Soto from Sam's tonight and he said Sazerac 18 is their hardest "get" too, harder than Stagg. Interesting.

[gothbat]

I think the Saz is more limited than the GTS, last year anyway. Last year there were fewer barrels (28 vs 89) and the Saz is a little older than the GTS (it had an approximately 10% larger Angel's Share too). I didn't do the math but hypothetically speaking if the Saz came out of the barrel at 180 proof (yeah, I know, I'm sure it didn't if thats even possible) that would still only be the equivalent of ~56 barrels after they added water. I can't speak for previous years though. Man, I love those fact sheets; wish they had them for all bourbons!

[ggilbertva]

Harder than Stagg?

Oh yah. I picked up 6 '06 Staggs a couple of months ago. In order to get my bottle of Saz 18, I had to acquire it through trade with another SB.com member. I think the Saz 18 sold out here in VA early in the year and couldn't be found. Of the 5 bottles from 2006, the Stagg was the most plentiful.

[Rughi]

...I think the Saz 18 sold out here in VA early in the year and couldn't be found. Of the 5 bottles from 2006, the Stagg was the most plentiful.

That was the experience of my friends and I here in Northern California. Saz went almost immediately, followed quickly by Handy and LaRue. Stagg and Eagle Rare 17 were plentiful for months and months.

[cowdery]

Interesting. I found it on the shelf at Everett's in South Beloit, IL (right on the Wisconsin border).

[sku]

That was the experience of my friends and I here in Northern California. Saz went almost immediately, followed quickly by Handy and LaRue. Stagg and Eagle Rare 17 were plentiful for months and months.

On a trip last year, I found a gourmet market in Sonoma County that seems to have a steady supply of Saz 18. I grabbed some up.

[Pharaoh]

I'm not sure why Sazerac 18 wouldn't be the most difficult to find of the Antique Collection, today? Although no-one's going to outright say so, wouldn't it seem that the Sazerac 18 is rye from the same period and runs as almost all of the other "well aged" rye available today?

If so, wouldn't the supply move closer to extinction each year (at least until there is an aged backup available)?

It was also suggested that the remaining rye whiskey being utilized for the Saz 18 was consolidated or tanked somewhere between 2004 and 2005. I notice that also coincidentally seems to be about when the accompanying fact sheet (enclosed in cases) and bottle label quit disclosing the distilled year. Some enthusiasts say the f2005 release was the best since the original release - not sure but most that I've encountered have said it was damn good whiskey.

Anyway not disclosing the distilled date might be viewed as a sure way to not let on to the fact that the whiskey isn't backed up via yearly production - and instead is being rationed to try to fill in the blank until BT distilled rye or other whiskey is mature enough to be bottled as replacement. Similar strategy and scenario to Julian's VWFR - no?

Also, if one looks at other indicators, such as European discussion boards etc. I think you'll find that of the Antique Collection and American Whiskey in general, more Scotch and Irish whisk(e)y drinkers speak very favorably of Sazerac Rye (I noticed this phenomenon picking up momentum around 2004/2005).

In essence I think worldwide demand for the Saz 18 has increased at least minimally while in the same timeframe the supply is being controlled increasingly based on time / volume calculations as much if not more so than raw consumer demand. This is striclty a guess but speaking of supply, I'm betting it'll only get worse before it gets better.

[ggilbertva]

Interesting. I found it on the shelf at Everett's in South Beloit, IL (right on the Wisconsin border).

You're fortunate to still find it. I have the one bottle of Saz, two Handy, 3 Weller and 6 Stagg. I won't make that same mistake with the 2007 release.

[luv2hunt]

Last time I stopped at Everetts....they still had the previous years Saz on the shelf :bigeyes::bigeyes::bigeyes:

Dawn

[mgilbertva]

That was the experience of my friends and I here in Northern California. Saz went almost immediately, followed quickly by Handy and LaRue. Stagg and Eagle Rare 17 were plentiful for months and months.

I'd say that's the same progression in Virginia, D.C., and possibly Maryland. I just saw an ER on the shelves a couple weeks ago, and we snagged several Stagg in August. One WLW popped up at Schneider's in D.C. in August (or July?) too. Handy has not put in appearance for months, but I found a couple on the shelves.

I have never seen Saz 18 on a shelf. Ever. The two I procured were through trade.

[craigthom]

I called the Hurstbourne (Louisville) Liquor Barn today to ask when they'd be getting the 2007 BTAC. The guy who answered said he didn't know but that they'd been getting a lot of phone calls about it.

[Virus_Of_Life]

Last time I stopped at Everetts....they still had the previous years Saz on the shelf :bigeyes::bigeyes::bigeyes:

Dawn

Yep, Last time I checked I knew where there were 4 '06 Saz on a shelf also...

[RedVette]

Saz 18 is by far my favorite of the BTAC lineup. All of the bottles that I have found, have been consumed. It is my weakness, if I have Saz 18 on my shelf, I have it in my glass. I'd really like to get some more this year/

[jspero]

I have never seen Saz 18 on a shelf. Ever. The two I procured were through trade.

I'll echo that for the parts of Maryland I've searched. I have never seen Saz 18 on the shelf anywhere. It goes out as soon as it come in, if it comes in at all, and it is in VERY small quantities.

Stagg and ER17 seem to be fairly easy to get. Weller and Handy were around, but you had to look for them.

Jay

[ThomasH]

The last Saz 18 I bought was in Pa. I got on the PLCB website, located a store that had it, walked in and bought it. It pays to check their website frequently!

Thomas

[SBOmarc]

The '06 Saz was the first of the collection that was emptied. I'd love to say that I had help, but the bottle was mine.

[DrinkyBanjo]

I had some '05 Saz 18 on Saturday. This might be my favorite Whiskey...PERIOD!

[cowdery]

Pharaoh's theory is interesting. A lot of the old rye that's around is that Cream of Kentucky rye that supposedly was made at Bernheim in, if my math is correct, 1983. Any Saz 18 bottled now would have to have been made in or before 1989. Was what is now Buffalo Trace making staight rye in 1989? Why would they have been? What brand or brands would they have been supplying or planning to supply in 1989?

Here is what Mark Brown said when I asked him about the provenance of Sazerac Rye 18 in 2003: "Sazerac Rye 18 was part of a batch of straight rye whiskey we made under the Cream of Kentucky DSP in 1981, etc., that had become completely lost in our inventory. We only found it after a complete review and inspection of our barrel inventory. Turned out to be quite a find!! Yum!"

I read the "etc." as meaning there were distillation years subsequent to 1981, but that may be a pretty thin reed. Reports that have identified the rye in the most recent bottlings of VWFRR as COK, as well as all of the old KBD-bottled ryes, say it was made at Bernheim. Is it a stretch to believe both BT and Bernheim made batches of straight rye for COK in the early 1980s?

[Pharaoh]

Great thought provoking points Chuck. There's another intersting, uhhh, coincidence I pondered (totally unrelated though).

It was also suggested that the remaining rye whiskey being utilized for the Saz 18 was consolidated or tanked somewhere between 2004 and 2005. I notice that also coincidentally seems to be about when the accompanying fact sheet (enclosed in cases) and bottle label quit disclosing the distilled year. Some enthusiasts say the f2005 release was the best since the original release - not sure but most that I've encountered have said it was damn good whiskey.

That other well aged rye whiskey that made it way out where the west was won... I understand had recently experienced barrel consolidation. To me, both the 'Willett' rye bottles were brighter (for a lack of better words) than most of the other supposedly related rye I've tasted in recent memory.

As quoted, many described the 2005 Saz as the best thing since sliced bread. What I've pondered is if the whiskey for the Sazerac rye was tanked (as was suggested) and the Willett rye was recently consolidated... wouldn't both processes drastically alter the surface air that would have accumulated through the natural maturation process (aka evaporation)?

Probably not worth wondering but I'd be lying if I said it hadn't crossed my mind.

Then there's Mark's explanation you provided. I say a year's distillation lost in the shuffle, sure. As you pointed out, does someone really intend us to believe that the forgotten whiskey has been made consecutively from 1981 to 1989? You'll also recall around 2003 & 2004 the Sazerac rye started showing 20 years of age. The distillation year seemed get stuck at 83 or 84. I doubt that was some accident.

[Sijan]

Very interesting discussion here. Thanks for sharing these thoughts.

So is the take-away that all of the extra-aged (17+ years) rye whiskey currently on the market is likely from the same provenance - Cream of Kentucky rye distilled in the early '80s?

[BourbonJoe]

So is the take-away that all of the extra-aged (17+ years) rye whiskey currently on the market is likely from the same provenance - Cream of Kentucky rye distilled in the early '80s?

It would seem so.

Joe :usflag: