Bartons, Maker's Mark and Four Roses

[boone]

I ride by Maker's Mark kinda regular....I have watched 3 new warehouses go up....

I ride by Barton's everyday and I noticed them hanging a sign up to sell barrels....and I see Maker's Mark trailers backed up to the docks at one of the warehouses.... Maker's Mark loading whiskey at Bartons....Hmmmmmmmmm....What's goin on? I ride by and see the same thing MM loading whiskey at Barton's....

Bobby asked me about some barrels.....I tell him about the sign selling them and about the MM trucks there......He stops in buys some barrels and asks why are the MM trailers there.......They told him that they rent it and store their whiskey there.......OoooooooKkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.

I ride by there a ya won't believe what I saw......A FOUR ROSES TANKER... Yep...now let me see.....NOPE, NOPE, NOPE....... JUST AIN'T GONNA FIGURE ON THAT ONE!

Bettye Jo

[Guest **DONOTDELETE**]

Bettye Jo since your post is very much on topic for the Distillery Trips topic board, I went ahead and moved it here. Your 'woman on the sceen reports' from Bardstown are always enjoyable, and in this case very valuable intelligence gathering on your part. Keep up the good work Agent Nosey.

Now about that Four Roses Tanker ==> Was it bringing whiskey in? Or was it taking whiskey out? And just whose whiskey was it? Photos Agent Nosey => always remember your 'spy-cam'! Oh yeah and dark glasses like this so no one will recognize you.

[bobbyc]

My guess is and this is only a guess, is that four roses is buying whiskey from Barton. Seagrams has sold them recently and Diageo has ended up with the distillery in Lawenceburg Ind. ( their other distillery is in Lawenceburg Ky , go figure).The rest of it went to some outfit in Japan. They have a cistern room at Bullitt County and they bring the whiskey in in tankers and enter it in barrels there. ( They also have 20+ warehouses there to age in and are getting a bottling line going.) Makers Mark, lets see they also own 2 of the old TW Samuels warehouses at Deatsville , Heaven Hill owns the rest and they are 20,000 barrel houses. 4 at Barton they are renting , and a long time ago Bill Jr came on TV and said that they had a bunch warehoused in Jeffersonville Ind. to beat the Ky state tax of $4.00 a gallon the day it is entered in the warehouse. I don't know what they can store at Loretto. I'm no Rocket Scientist ( Pun Intended) so let's see ......... they knock out 19 barrels a batch. maybe they do this 2 times a day. Linn has reported that they are having Vendome copy their still to double their output but this is a future event, not at present. It would take 526 days to fill a 20,000 B warehouse The 4 houses at Barton's are 20,000 each , so working 365 days a year it would take almost 9 years to fill everything.Just warehouses at Bartons and TW Samuels. Not counting anything at Loretto or Jeffersonville . We think Makers has an age of 7 years or less so they would be removing whiskey as this goes on. No one from Makers said the warehouses were full, but what would be the point of renting and buying more if you had unused space. What's the point of all of this? Make what you will of it . It doesn't make sense to have warehousing capacity to far exceed your ability to fill . After the new still is running this may all come together for them. Who knows we may see Maker's sell for far cheaper than it is today , It would be good for us. There doesn't seem to be a shortage of it. Is there anyone on this forum that has trouble finding Maker's anywhere in the country?

[Guest **DONOTDELETE**]

Bobby it was my understanding the new sister still was installed this past summer and should have been running full bull from last fall until this summer's shutdown. Authors Waymack & Harris report Maker's Mark average daily output at 54 Barrels. The new still should double that. Hey Bobby! Why don't give Dave Pickrel a shout at MM and ask him? With any luck he'll tell you most of what you want to know! Ps => always remember to bring your 'spy-cam' along when traveling by any distilleries! You just never know who you might catch doing what. The doings at Barton's is a perfect example.

[bobbyc]

I stand corrected, If they run 108 barrels a day they could fill the TW Samuels warehouses and the 4 at Barton's in a little over 3 years. So if they could hold about that much more at Loretto and Jeffersonville ( If they still do that) That should get them on the age cycle of their whiskey. They probably don't run the still every day either.

[MurphyDawg]

1) If they bring down the price of Maker's Mark (as a result of producing more), like BobbyC suggested, that would make buyring the stuff worthwhile. The only knock I have on the stuff so far (like many others here) is that its a tad cost prohibitive.

2) When do I get my Spy-Cam??

TomC

[cowdery]

I'm not at all surprised that Barton has excess warehouse space. They have quite a few warehouses and they are ideally situated. Remember Heaven Hill lost several in their fire, and Maker's has preferred to rent space in and around Bardstown rather than erecting more warehouses in Loretto. They have been doing that for years. It makes perfect sense to use excess capacity that's available in the community before increasing your own. The industry has always been very cooperative that way.

[Guest **DONOTDELETE**]

Chuck what do you make of the Four Roses tankers?

[boone]

Hey Chuck,

Maker's have built 3 new warehouses in Loretto....I have watched them go up.... I deliver shirts in Lebanon. I have to go through Loretto and by Maker's go get to that town......... Word has it they are going to build one more which will make the total of 4 new warehouses in Loretto.....

Bettye Jo

Spy-Cam #1

[cowdery]

It could be anything, but I don't see Four Roses using someone else's whiskey. Their approach is just too controlled for that. I can, however, imagine them dumping barrels, putting the whiskey into a tanker, and sending it someplace for bottling. They probably were doing that in Indiana but, for some reason, needed to do some of it locally.

[Guest **DONOTDELETE**]

Hey Chuck do you know if Barton's is doing any distilling at all any more? I've heard a nasty rumor that I cannot confirm that Barton's sales have faultered and they haven't been doing any distilling at all since last year.

[cowdery]

I haven't heard anything, but I did see a mighty wall of VOB at Liquor Barn 4-days ago, so they appear to be selling plenty of it in Louisville. They could well be on a brief hiatus, but I can't imagine they would be closing shop.

[bobbyc]

Well it shouldn't be hard for those of us close to the source to nose about a bit ( literally) and see if Barton's is cooking anything. It's getting close to time for Beam to shut down and they have the mechanical contractor in down there already. When I was coming home tonight the air was filled with scorched mash. It probably scorches at the same rate all the time but sometimes the weather pattern holds it down and it just permeates everything . It smells delicious , real foody if you've been by a donut shop..........The day I was at Barton they were moving a lot of whiskey tankers coming and going. I was in some kind of pump station and outside are huge stainless tanks. A qc guy was pulling samples. It was great , find a 10 by 20 room perfectly spotless and pour whiskey all over the floor untill that's all you can smell , stop right before your eyes water!

[bourbonmed]

Hey Bobby, BettyeJo:

For the benefit of us outside KY, would you mind posting a pic of a 'whiskey' tanker? Never seen one.

Thanks,

Omar

[bobbyc]

I don't have a photo I bet Betty Jo can get us up to speed on that. But it basically is an 18 wheeler with an all stainless steel tank-trailer usually a little smaller than what they deliver gasoline with. Humm come to think of it maybe sometimes it is the same truck! No No never with Bourbon , it's that other stuff ......... the stuff that sucks........ as in Scotch Sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know a few guys on the Four Roses crew. I'll pick their brains a bit. I'll try to find out where the bottling takes place, they do run the single barrel that's only available overseas and occassionally a bottle makes it to the Getz auction, at Lotus ( the name of the warehousing facility in Bullitt County, 4 miles east of Jim Beam at Clermont). And if they have a dump room there. I think they do and I can't see them hauling barrels 12 miles up the road to dump if they can do it at Lotus. However I guess they too could have leased space at Barton's . I was told that they had Lotus pretty full.

[ratcheer]

Well, tell them that if they distributed more widely and offered their best products here in the USA, they would probably sell a lot more.

I can find one Barton product in my ABC stores. It is only 80 proof. Since I have an aversion to anything under 90 proof, I don't buy it.

But if I could buy the BIB or single-barrel Barton or Four Roses products, I would buy them and try them. And if they were as good as everyone says, I would keep buying them.

But, since they are not available , I don't buy them. Its a vicious circle.

Tim

[cowdery]

I believe the whiskey to be stored at Lotus is barreled there, and they have warehouses. I'm not sure if they have a dump room, but it makes sense that they would. I'm almost positive they do not have a bottling line there, although they may be bottling a single barrel there, since that is essentially a hand operation. If you are going to distill in one location, age in another, and bottle in yet another, it makes sense to have the barreling and dumping facilities at the rackhouse site. Why move barrels if you don't have to? It's entirely possible that Lotus is full and the whiskey from Four Roses is being tankered to Barton to be barrelled and aged there.