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jeff
08-21-2002, 04:19
Is there a definative list somewhere that lists the working distilleries with the brands that they produce. I am not only interested in the brands that are released in the US, but also for the export only market. I have tried visiting the company websites but they generally only seem interested in listing their flagship brands. Thanks for your help!

bobbyc
08-21-2002, 06:02
There is some good info on the other side of this site. click on the straight bourbon logo and it will take you there look through makers and brands . I don't know if it is exhaustive but there's a chance you will learn something there
http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

jeff
08-21-2002, 07:39
I tried that but every time I try to access the database I get the "internal server error" screen. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

jbutler
08-21-2002, 10:38
Jeff,
The database for that portion of the site is still down since our move to the new server. I know exactly what has to be done to fix it, but getting a spare 4 or 5 hours to do it has been difficult lately.

I'll let everyone know as soon as it's up.

cowdery
08-21-2002, 13:00
Try the Kentucky Distillers Association (http://www.kybourbon.com/).

kitzg
08-21-2002, 15:06
Chuck, thanks for the suggestion that the Kentucky Distiller's Association is likely the best source.

I know that you know this Chuck, but to inform Jeff, the problem comes with Four Roses in particular (and a few others) that are not listed. Since Four Roses is in transition from Seagrams to Kirin there is no web site (that I know of) and it is hard to get a list of their different products with most being sold internationally.

So you've got a pretty good, but not all encompassing, listing.

One point -- don't trust all of the books. Most of them were written several years ago and are now out of date; especially as to firm ownership.

jeff
08-21-2002, 16:07
Thanks for the advice guys. One in particular I am looking for is Jefferson's Reserve. Which distillery actually distills and ages the bourbon prior to bottling?

kitzg
08-21-2002, 16:27
McLain & Kyne Distillery Co. Bardstown, Ky - which is Trey Zoeller, and I believe it is handled by Evan Kulsveen. But not sure where they get the product. They claim Bardstown so that limits it a lot -- Barton, Heaven Hill?

Keep in mind there is a lot of bourbon in barrels that was put in the keg by some distillery several years ago and now sits in a warehouse waiting to be picked. With all of the changes in the past 20 years the firm that put it in the keg is sometimes long gone.

jeff
08-21-2002, 16:40
So if that's the case, does it really matter who the distiller is? I mean, with these "sub-contracted" distileries making bourbon for others to bottle, are they just following a recipe and all of the artform lies in the mixing and bottling? Does it really matter who actually starts the process? My gut tells me that the best bourbons are made by people who control the entire process. But maybe I am wrong?

**DONOTDELETE**
08-21-2002, 16:41
That's about right Greg, but the bourbon could come from any Kentucky distiller. I've gone ahead and bumped up a tasting on Jeff's Reserve that contains some good intel. The only thing I have to add is that there are rumours that it is really old stock from National Distillers. N.D. used to own Old Crow, Old Taylor, and Old Grand Dad. The intrigue of bourbon is also it's allure. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

kitzg
08-21-2002, 16:48
whoa.... Jeff.

The bourbon industry is pretty small. Don't get the image there are dozens of little firms making the stuff for anyone to bottle.

But when United or National made product that now has been sitting it was made by people who cared and many who've lost their job or gone to another distiller.

So the process was controlled. The key then is to pick the barrels that will give you excellent bourbon. Jeff's reserve (not yours, of course) gets excellent reviews

I hope that helps.

jeff
08-21-2002, 17:07
Greg,
Thanks for your input! I know that there are only a handful of working distilleries out there, but they produce so many labels, many of them owned by other entities, that it makes me wonder who plays the more important role. Take for instance Buffalo Trace. They distill the bourbon for Blantons and VanWinkle (among others). Now, would Blantons and VW be the same if say the parent companies chose say Heaven Hill to do the distilling? I realize that this is a vast over-simplification of the process, not taking into account location, aging, or barrels in waiting from a bygone era, but is the actual distilling company of upmost importance? Or lets look at it backwards. If you take Age International and the VanWinkle people out od the picture, could Buffalo Trace produce bourbons of similar quality?

cowdery
08-21-2002, 17:19
Beam and National merged in 1987. Beam immediately closed the distilleries. If there is an National-made bourbon around, it's over 15 years old. I never heard of Beam selling any National whiskey on the bulk market, but that doesn't mean they didn't. That's all I know.

kitzg
08-21-2002, 17:29
actually all of the VanWinkle product you and I've ever tasted was LIKELY NOT from Buffalo Trace. While Julian won't tell it's speculated that most of that bourbon is old United Distiller's stock. Anyway, I really don't think it was from BT...yet!

Chuck, thanks for clarifying the point the Beam's not sold bulk

bobbyc
08-21-2002, 18:10
The other thing to bear in mind and this is hard sometimes to believe , it that on any given day the stills that are up and running , could produce the very best bourbon in the world . Earlier today I had a touch of Blanton's and really thought I had received the nectar of the gods. Only a little while ago I had my first taste of Booker's . Damn Man. If Beam can run juice like that in a 20 barrel batch, who needs single barrel? http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif