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View Full Version : Why no BT rye mash 2 at barrel strength



sku
02-09-2012, 16:04
As part of the Antique Collection, Buffalo Trace offers barrel strength bourbons made from rye mash 1 (Stagg), wheat mash (WLW) and straight rye (Handy), but not rye mash 2. I know that overseas they sell a barrel strength Blanton's, but not in the US. Any thoughts as to why they don't offer a barrel strength version of rye mash 2?

clingman71
02-09-2012, 16:15
The Sazerac/ Age International deal might be why there is no mash #2 in the BTAC. That does not, however, explain why there is no Barrel strength Blanton's offered here.

sailor22
02-09-2012, 18:36
Isn't Blanton's actually owned and distribution controlled by a Japanese company? BT is the contract manufacturer but has no say in what iteration is released where - is that correct?

sku
02-09-2012, 18:45
Yes. My understanding, as Clingman notes, is that all of the rye mash 2 brands (AA, Blanton's, ETL, RHF) are owned by the Japanese company Age International. There seems to be very little known about the relationship between BT and Age. Chuck covered it in a post on his blog a little while ago.

But that doesn't answer the question of why there are no barrel strength versions especially when we know they are made for export.

keith18
02-09-2012, 18:59
Interesting thread. RHF is one of my favorite bourbons. I think it is really underrated. If I recall its about 50% ABV, so I'd be really interested in tasting it at barrel strength.

White Dog
02-09-2012, 20:53
This is a good question, since I love BT's High Rye Bourbons. As Sazerac doesn't own those labels, it doesn't seem to be their priority.

clingman71
02-09-2012, 20:58
This is indeed a good question. I'm drinking a healthy pour of TPS AAA tonight, fantastic bourbon even at 86 proof. But, just think how good it could be at 100 proof? Let alone barrel strength?

cowdery
02-10-2012, 13:25
Sazerac can make suggestions to Age but that's about it. Age controls all of the brands that use that mash bill. Obviously, these are deals between two closely held corporations, so I don't know the exact arrangements, but I assume that Age actually owns all of the whiskey made from that mash bill from the moment it's distilled. It's essentially a contract distilling job. Bottom line is Sazerac has nothing to do with it. It's 100% up to Age.

clingman71
02-10-2012, 14:06
It sure would be nice to drop one, --ER 17 maybe--, and add an Age mash #2 to the BTAC. Ten year old barrel strength Blanton's sounds awfully appealing.

BradleyC
02-10-2012, 14:08
Does this mean my wishes for an extra aged barrel proof ET Lee to join the BTAC will more than likely never come true?

BradleyC
02-10-2012, 14:11
Cligman. We must have been typing at the same time and obviously have similar thoughts on the matter. The BTAC without a doubt needs a barrel proof rye mash #2. In keeping with the names from bourbon's history I think they should call it Elmer Thomas Lee (or whatever his middle name is). That would be very nice.

barturtle
02-10-2012, 18:21
The Sazerac/ Age International deal might be why there is no mash #2 in the BTAC. That does not, however, explain why there is no Barrel strength Blanton's offered here.

The price conversion works out to be about $90 for the 70cl. When comparing the standard Blanton's conversion of $58/70cl to Binny's $55/75cl, that means the $90 shelf price is about what it would be, if not more. If I was in charge, I doubt I'd bring it over here either.

clingman71
02-10-2012, 18:52
What is there to bring over? It is all distilled, aged, and bottled in Frankfort is it not? It could fall in line with the other BTAC pricewise. We aren't talking about sending it to Japan and then bringing it back, just simply creating a new US BTAC label of barrel strength and possibly extra aged Blanton's.

cowdery
02-11-2012, 13:06
You might just as well ask Beam to make a Knob Creek iteration for the BTAC. It's two different companies.

clingman71
02-11-2012, 13:20
Chuck, you said it yourself, Sazerac could suggest it, they are closely held corporations. I would think that the BTAC is a $$$maker for Saz, why wouldn't Age want a piece of that? Blanton's moves, barrel strength bourbons move. There is no reason to believe that a barrel aged Blanton's wouldn't sell, and sell well. It is one of those things that seem incredibly simple. Either there is no good reason or there is, and we just don't know it. The Beam/Knob Creek -BTAC comparison is hardly the same as a Sazerac-Age International comparison.

barturtle
02-11-2012, 20:50
It could fall in line with the other BTAC pricewise.

Not gonna happen. If they were to price it lower, there'd be grey market imports, costing them legitimate sales at higher prices.

bad_scientist
02-11-2012, 21:43
France asked for it and got it. I'll walk down the street and see if the President can ask for it, too :)

jburlowski
02-12-2012, 06:58
There is at least some suggestion that more of the Blanton's expressions will become available in the US.


John Shutt, International Sales Director of Blantons’ Bourbon invites BourbonBlog.com (http://bourbonblog.com/)‘s Tom Fischer into Warehouse H to be first to do an on-camera tasting of the complete Blanton’s collection. At this time Blanton’s export labels are only available internationally and in some duty free shops.
“Due to such high demand from our loyal brand customers we are looking forward to bringing one or perhaps all labels to the domestic market with our US Domestic Distributor, Sazerac in the future,” Shutt tells BourbonBlog.com (http://bourbonblog.com/).

http://www.bourbonblog.com/blog/2011/10/27/the-best-bourbons-you-may-never-taste-blantons-bourbon-collection-tasting/

Bourbon Boiler
02-12-2012, 07:23
Those French can be very threatening. I'm not surprised they were able to demand and receive a fine bourbon selection.

cowdery
02-12-2012, 13:58
Chuck, you said it yourself, Sazerac could suggest it, they are closely held corporations. I would think that the BTAC is a $$$maker for Saz, why wouldn't Age want a piece of that? Blanton's moves, barrel strength bourbons move. There is no reason to believe that a barrel aged Blanton's wouldn't sell, and sell well. It is one of those things that seem incredibly simple. Either there is no good reason or there is, and we just don't know it. The Beam/Knob Creek -BTAC comparison is hardly the same as a Sazerac-Age International comparison.

I used that analogy because it is apt. Age and Sazerac really don't see eye to eye on things.

awachatz
02-12-2012, 14:58
It sure would be nice to drop one, --ER 17 maybe--, and add an Age mash #2 to the BTAC. Ten year old barrel strength Blanton's sounds awfully appealing.

I think this is a great suggestion. But I am not going to hold my breath. It makes too much sense.

sku
02-12-2012, 18:23
They don't need to change the BTAC, just release Blanton's Straight from the Barrel domestically.

I recently got a bottle of the export stuff. I'll let everyone know how it is.

BradleyC
02-12-2012, 18:48
Isn't the Ltd. Ed. Bowman 18 yr bourbon that PS and the Bowman gift shop had BT rye #2?

cowdery
02-12-2012, 20:55
There is no "they." These are two different companies. I don't mean to suggest they're in conflict, I have no reason to think they are, but what they do for each other is what it is. I don't think it has changed one iota since the relationship began more than 20 years ago. The point I'm trying without success to make is that you're going down the wrong road if you think of them as one entity.

The fact that BT makes both mash bills but doesn't use the Age mash bill for any of its own, BT brands, really tells you everything you need to know. They're like roommates who are just roommates, not friends.

Wishing Age would come out with an older or higher proof expression of its whiskey is one thing. That's not outside the realm of possibility. It's just never going to happen under the auspices of something that BT does.

BBQ+Bourbon
02-12-2012, 21:34
Yes. My understanding, as Clingman notes, is that all of the rye mash 2 brands (AA, Blanton's, ETL, RHF) are owned by the Japanese company Age International. There seems to be very little known about the relationship between BT and Age. Chuck covered it in a post on his blog a little while ago.

But that doesn't answer the question of why there are no barrel strength versions especially when we know they are made for export.

In US dollars, how much is a bottle of barrel proof Blantons in Japan?

Josh
02-13-2012, 10:55
Isn't the Ltd. Ed. Bowman 18 yr bourbon that PS and the Bowman gift shop had BT rye #2?

I think Bowman actually uses #1. The Whiskey Tree may be wrong. I blame all of you for not catching it sooner.

sku
02-13-2012, 12:55
In US dollars, how much is a bottle of barrel proof Blantons in Japan?

In Europe it's about $90.

barturtle
02-13-2012, 14:51
In Europe it's about $90.

And if you want to know how much AGE International is screwing the rest of the world, Blanton's Original can be bought for 2680 yen or about $34.50 and the Barrel Proof is 4440 yen or $57.20...or a couple dollars more than Binny's charges for the Original.:hot:

Josh
02-13-2012, 15:05
And if you want to know how much AGE International is screwing the rest of the world, Blanton's Original can be bought for 2680 yen or about $34.50 and the Barrel Proof is 4440 yen or $57.20...or a couple dollars more than Binny's charges for the Original.:hot:

But those guys at The Sampler last year were so nice. I have 5 Blanton's glasses to prove it.

"More Blanton's?"

Yes please.