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Giobo
06-20-2001, 13:57
We came across a bourbon called "Corner Creek". Anyone know who makes this?

On a more obscure note: Found a bottle of Old Jordan from the earyl 1940's. The label said it was made by Samuels. Does anyone know if this was a wheated bourbon? Thanks from the Bourbon Boys.

cowdery
06-21-2001, 15:39
As for Corner Creek, I think it is one of Even Kulsveen's products.

As for Old Jordan, at least according to the Maker's Mark mythology, Bill Samuels, Sr. introduced the wheated Maker's Mark recipe because he had such a low opinion of the quality of the whiskey that was being make at T.W. Samuels.


--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

Gillman
10-19-2002, 12:25
If I can pick up an older thread here, I just bought this bourbon, Corner Creek, in Toronto. I find it very good. It does not remind me, as one poster said, of Evan Williams Single Barrel (which has to my taste an unbalanced, over citric taste) but rather like an older, more complex version of Very Old Barton. I find it has a good body, "liquer"-like, and a complex, dryish taste.

The label says it uses wheat, rye and corn. Is the use of both rye and wheat in the mash (and no barley malt?) not unusual?

bluesbassdad
10-19-2002, 13:45
I was startled by your comment about EWSB. The bottle of '92 vintage that I have leans heavily toward the caramel/sweet side.

What year is your bottle of EWSB?

Regarding your wheat/rye question, I think there was some discussion in a "wish list" style thread about combining wheat and rye in the same mashbill. IIRC, the unanimous belief was that no one markets such a bourbon today, which apparently is erroneous. (Perhaps it's my recollection that is erroneous.)

The descriptions I have read regarding the fermentation process all imply that the malted barley is needed for fermentation to occur. I'm wondering whether the label information on Corner Creek is completely accurate.

Yours truly,
Dave Morefield

bobbyc
10-19-2002, 13:51
L&G have some four grain whiskies that will be coming on soon and BT has some that will have rice or oats in place of the wheat or rye. Things will become more interesting as we go along on this great little adventure! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

Gillman
10-19-2002, 14:18
Well the bottle (CC) states: "An exceptional marriage of the finest wheat, rye and corn". Regarding the Evan Williams Single Barrel, this is one I never came to terms with since its first release, what, 10 years ago or so?

I love the regular Evan Williams for its rich corn, vanilla, and smoke character, but all years of the Single Barrel I have had have a characteristic lemony taste which seems completely different.

I last had it (there were two versions available) at the gala at the recent festival. I can take it straight, to be sure, but I find ice or water accentuate this citric dry feature.

Everything I've read too suggests there must be some barley malt in the
mash to help convert the starch in the other grains, so..

cowdery
10-22-2002, 10:31
I'm looking into Corner Creek but don't know a lot yet. One report says it is an Even Kulsveen product. The label says it is made (i.e., bottled) in Bardstown, which means it's Evan, HH or Barton. The "Corner Creek Distilling Co." is based in Miami, FL. One of the partners in the company is Ted Kraut. He says the brand is in 27 U.S. markets, plus Japan. It is bottled to order "at a small distillery in Bardstown, Kentucky." He also says, "we buy our whiskey in bulk, lay it away 8 years, & bottle on a monthly basis."

As for the mash bill, the company's promotional literature makes the same claim as the label, that it combines wheat, corn and rye. One theory proposed has been that they are mixing some wheat recipe bourbon with some rye recipe bourbon, as opposed to using a four-grain mash bill.

Maybe one of our local spies can determine if there are barrels aging up on Willett Hill.

boone
10-22-2002, 11:40
Hey Chuck,

Are ya referring to our http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif SPY CAM DUO? http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif .....Me and Bobby?....Well it's a trio now.... we have added..... http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif Brenda http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif ......Oh....BTW Brenda you are now a member of the http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif SPY Cam TRIO Club http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif ...

We "were" going to watch a movie at Brenda's later this week....but our mission may have changed...

SPY CAM 1

http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif Bettye Jo http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Gillman
10-22-2002, 15:47
Interesting. I tasted the CC tonight and am now convinced this is a Heaven Hill product, not Barton's as I thought initially.

It has the "damp paper" aftertaste of Heaven Hill, I tested it against my HH bonded that I got during the recent festival.

The comment of Mr. Kraut that he buys it new and ages it 8 years would clinch this theory, I think.

Barton's could make sense except the HH products (under the house name) lack its aromatic character.

cowdery
10-22-2002, 17:49
Ya see, Heaven Hill's traditional business model was to sell whiskey to its customers as soon as the whiskey left the still. HH would then age it for them and subsequently bottle it, but the customer "owned" the whiskey as soon as it was made. Presumably, the customer owned a certain number of barrels from a certain season, not specific barrels, but the effect was the same from a business standpoint. The customer, not the distiller, bore any changes in the value of the whiskey that might occur during the aging period. That's why Heaven Hill had so many labels. Virtually everything it sold was customized for its customers. I believe it still conducts some of its business that way. That would make everything Traut says true, even if the whiskey is actually aging in Heaven Hill's warehouses. Then again, why would he have Kulsveen bottle it? Heaven Hill is certainly competitive with anyone in custom bottling, even for small runs like Corner Creek must be. On the other hand, rackhouse capacity has been at a premium for Heaven Hill. Every intact rackhouse in the region has somebody's whiskey in it. Heaven Hill might be very happy to sell bulk new made whiskey at a very favorable price to someone willing to take it off the premises into their own storage.

I'm going to call this Traut guy. Maybe he'll just tell me.

As for the spy mission, one would expect a fair number of barrels to be lying around at Willett Hill even if it is strictly a bottling operation, but full warehouses would tell another story? Really good spies would be sure to get a look at some barrel heads to figure out the whiskey's source.

I'm making my own head hurt. Too many possibilities.

brendaj
10-22-2002, 19:41
Chuck,
I am shamed. It should have occurred to me to look and see if there was actually anything in the rackhouses while I was there. On the other hand, they were across open fields of thigh-high grass. Think 'deer in headlights.' I just knew that at any time, alarms were going to sound, police would surround the place with those bullhorns and I would go out in cuffs.
http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif
However, my son has worked for Evan briefly. He said he had been in each of the rackhouses and there were no aging barrels, they were empty. He said Evan told him repeatedly that he wasn't aging barrels.
But, if ya'll are really serious about this, I'm in... http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Beej

cowdery
10-23-2002, 11:07
Excellent information, agent.

I wonder if Willett's rackhouses are usable? If they were, you'd think someone would have leased them.

brendaj
10-24-2002, 10:58
Ya know Chuck...the same thought occurred to me. Just doesn't make sense. So I dug out the photos from the last mission. I shot several photos of the rackhouses...I'll post them later. Several are definately usable.
However, I grilled my son again and he swore they were empty. He said Even even talked about having to buy some barrels for decoration. At one point, I believe it was Mr. Kulsveen's plan to restore a part of the old distillery and use it as a Bourbon museum/public relations thing. The horse and carriage was supposed to run from town to the distillery. That's what the pile of new wood was for that was in the other photos.
I believe it to be HH's Bourbon that he's bottling. The thing that concerns me is the flavoring room. It's not something I recall hearing much about as we toured L&G and BT. It is my impression that Bourbon's flavors are what they are, based on the grain and the spirit's interaction with the wood. Why would he be adding flavors of any sort?
Beej

brendaj
10-24-2002, 19:13
Okie Dokie. I promised I'd post some of the shots of the rackhouses, from ....ummm...what year was that? 2000? (I have trouble remembering what I did yesterday.... http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif ).
Some are in worse shape than others. But several look usable. 'Course, a rackhouse could look great from the outside and be worthless if the inner framing is shot, I guess.
Beej

brendaj
10-24-2002, 19:15
This one isn't too bad.

cowdery
11-22-2002, 18:02
I got some Corner Creek the other night. It's pretty good, but at first blush it reminds me of Elijah Craig 12, maybe because I also just bought a bottle of that. Anyway, it certainly could be HH whiskey, based on the taste.

We've speculated about Barton doing contract distilling, but I don't think I know of any actual instances of it. Maybe they just sell some bulk whiskey from time to time.

Traut hasn't called me back. I want to ask him why they use a tinted bottle. Can anyone think of another bourbon sold in a tinted bottle?

What ever happened to the spy mission to Willett Hill? Go see "Die Another Day" and get inspired.

MurphyDawg
11-22-2002, 22:04
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Go see "Die Another Day" and get inspired.

[/QUOTE]


I watched Goldeneye last night. It is the first movie with Judy Dench as "M", and in a scene early on she told Bond that she preferred BOURBON to the cognac of her predecessor. That just shows what discerning taste that character has. . . . . . http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif !


Tom (Wild Turkey Manhattan, Shaken, Not Stirred) C

cowdery
11-25-2002, 07:58
That wasn't an accident. Jack Daniel's had a paid product placement in the film. Funny she called it "bourbon."

MurphyDawg
11-25-2002, 12:34
I figured that and told Jessica that the bottle she poured from looked like JD
(although it wasnt a very clear shot, mind you, they musnt have paid much. . .), but nonethe less we were amused.


Tom (I prefer bourbon too, much more than Tennessee Whiskey!) C

**DONOTDELETE**
11-25-2002, 14:34
I tried to talk Mark Brown (not of Brown-Forman, but rather of Buffalo Trace) into getting 'M' to drink Buffalo Trace. He told me "that'll cost 100 grand easy, and we don't make enough as it is".....So be it! I wanted M to say "I like bourbon. It's got balls!" Then she would pour a pair of glasses of Buffalo Trace. Look at the label...That 's a bull buffalo! Yes he's got balls! Oh! Auntie 'M'....You should drink real bourbon ...bourbon with balls!

bluesbassdad
12-21-2002, 13:53
Last night while shopping for a loaf of bread at my local Trader Joe's I picked up a bottle of Corner Creek for $16.99, IIRC. It had hit the shelves there since my last visit, about a week ago. I did not recall this thread as I pondered my purchase; nor did I recall ever hearing about this bourbon from any source. Nevertheless, at that price I couldn't resist trying something new, which I'll do one of these days -- when I get around to it. (I'm on a Baker's kick right now.) I hope I will have gotten the reference to a taste like "wet paper" (elswhere in this thread) out of my mind by then. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

Chuck commented in this thread about the tinted bottle. TJ's liquor section is small and a bit jumbled; at first glance I thought the Corner Creek was misplaced in the bourbon area. As I held the bottle in my hands, I knew there was something odd about it, but I couldn't figure out what. I just kept thinking that it didn't look like a bottle of bourbon.

Trader Joe's makes claims about how their buyers search out good deals, including so-called "special purchases", and yet sometimes they obtain enough of a product to keep it on their shelves for a long time. For example, they have been selling oceans of Charles Shaw wine for several months, supposedly obtained when some airline was unable to fulfill a contract to buy it.

On the other hand, they routinely stock Jack Daniel's, Knob Creek, and Glenlivet -- and I can't imagine how any of them could become distressed merchandise.

It will be interesting to see how long TJ's stocks Corner Creek. (BTW, they have also recently added Woodford Reserve at $25.99 and Famous Grouse at $17.99 for a one-liter bottle -- a size I had never seen before.)

Yours truly,
Dave Morefield

bobbyc
12-21-2002, 14:41
The 1 liter size has been around a while. Here in Ky they usually line up the 750 ml a 1 liter then the 1.75. The 200ml and 350ml are usually where they can be watched or a clerk has to get them. Corner Creek goes for about 26.99 bucks here or higher, so there may be a mistake on Trader Joe's part. this is at a store that runs Knob Creek for 19.99. Go clean him out Dave! We are talking about a 750 ml? I called about the price. These are Bourbon's bottled by Even at the old Willets place. thought to be Heaven Hill whiskey now. But I guess he picks over them and comes up with his profiles. I like Ky Pride that he does. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

bluesbassdad
12-21-2002, 15:46
Yeah, the Corner Creek is a 750 ml bottle. (I guess the one liter is about the same as the old quart, eh?) Some of TJ's prices are unbeatable in this vicinity by a wide margin (Rebel Yell for $8.99 and Glenlivet for $21.99, for example). Others are just 5-10% or so lower than the best regular prices elsewhere. (Speaking of unbeatable prices, I was at Rite-Aid Pharmacy earlier today, and they have Wild Turkey 101, 750 ml. for $12.99, that's $12.99. That may be the biggest bargain this Turkey-lover has seen.)

I think I'll wait until I've gotten familiar with Corner Creek before I consider buying more of it. I'm short on cash and long on bourbon at the moment. Besides, I am not a big fan (http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=Tasting&amp;Number=10997&amp;p age=1&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1) of the Kentucky Pride that you mentioned; so that's not an immediate selling point to me. Are the flavor profiles similar?

Yours truly,
Dave Morefield

bobbyc
12-21-2002, 16:48
Actually I don't know , I've never had Corner Creek. Please excuse my suggesting that you buy it I was basing it on a full 10 dollar price break. It may not be a good buy even at that price. I don't know what to make of it . I hope that Evan's profiles and Bourbon are a uniquely different product than HH . If it turned out they are so similiar then it is mainly just different packaging and price points. We have plenty of that,We need a new mashbill damnit! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif As far as Ky Pride. I had to acquire a taste for or rather get used to it. But I do enjoy it. WT at 12.99 remarkable! I'm long on Bourbon as well . I got a 1.75 of Kentucky Gentleman , it is indeed the Ky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. What is out there now for the most part is a blend and they ( Barton) stopped making a straight. It's not the greatest Bourbon in the world but it does make my Bourbon steaks sing. All Barton is good to cook with. There are 2 more at the closest liquor store here I may get another . When it's gone that's it but there should be some out there. However they sell the blend at around 12 for 1.75 so it moves good.

cowdery
12-30-2002, 10:09
The one-liter bottle is preferred by bars and restaurants. Most liquor stores only sell it if they do a business with the small bars and restaurants who can't get credit, or who aren't licensed, and so buy at retail. Here in Chicago, for example, I usually can find liters at Sam's but nowhere else.

- chuck

MurphyDawg
12-30-2002, 13:20
The state controls all that distribution stuff so I figure it is no suprise that I can find 1L's all over the place here http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif .



Tom (A Mixed Blessing @ Best) C

MurphyDawg
01-13-2003, 15:47
I have been on a bit of a James Bond kick, probably have watched 2/3's of the 20 Bond movies in the last two months. . . &amp; one thing I have noticed is that for all the "Medium Dry Vodka Martini, Shaken, Not Stirred." mumbo-jumbo associated with him, he spends quite a lot of the time drinking fine American Whiskeys. A Few examples:

In "Goldfinger" (set in beautiful Kentucky, no Less) He (Sean Connery) asks Ms. Pussy Galore out for a Bourbon and Branch Water when they first land in KY, and is sipping Mint Juleps while the criminal mastermind reveals hip nefarious plot.

In "Live and Let Die", Bond (Roger Moore) orders Bourbon &amp; Water just about everywhere he goes, and when at the Fillet of Soul in New Orleans, CIA agent Felix Leiter changes both their orders to Sazerac Cocktails.

And In the Ian Flemong Novel "The Spy Who Loved Me", Bond's main female interest is seen sipping at something I know Linn Would appreciate (excerpted below).


I knew the man had some taste! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

TomC

texascarl
01-20-2003, 16:34
Today (1-20-03) I saw that Corner Creek Reserve is on sale for half price = $13.19, at Randall's Internet Wine and Spirits (http://store.yahoo.com/randalls/index.html) but that price won't last long. They also have a few other bottles that I can't get here locally so I've purchased bourbon from these folks before. Fast (if not cheap) shipping, they require that an 'adult must sign' for their package, so plan accordingly.

Barrel_Proof
01-20-2003, 17:09
Every January George Randall removes the quantity discount prices from his internetwines.com website and sells his entire stock at 25% off. In addition to the fire sale on Evan Kulsveen's Corner Creek (which was already discounted), you can get David Sherman's Ezra B S.B. 15yo for $15 and other Evan Kulsveen bottlings at good prices, too, including Pure Kentucky XO for $21, Johnny Drum 15yo for $16.50, and Classic Cask S.B. 17yo for $45. January is the time to buy from Randall's. Add about $3 to the price of each bottle for shipping.

Paradox
01-20-2003, 17:25
Yeah, but isn't that $3.00 shipping per bottle if you buy 10-12 bottles? They have some good prices but some stuff (like the Antique Collection) are BIG rip-offs... $103 each for the Antique Collection offerings.. Even with the discount, for $75 they can keep them...

Barrel_Proof
01-20-2003, 17:55
Of course no one is going to pay that kind of crazy money for the Antiques. Especially when they all sit on the shelf a few miles from my home at $36.99 each. But this IS the time to add those tasty Kulsveen bottlings to your stash. I like them--loads of char and all--and George's prices on them are fine, at least for another week.

MurphyDawg
02-27-2003, 08:27
Maybe its beating a dead horse, but i don't care much. I have been reading the "Bond" Novels as of late and find the persistant bourbon references interesting, In Diamonds Are Forever and Casino Royale he drinks almost exclusively Old Grandad bourbon, mixing it in Old Fashioneds occasionally.


and then there is this quote in the Goldfinger novel from Auric Goldfinger to bond about Drinking:

"As for drinking, I am something of chemist and I have yet to find a liquor that is free from a number of poisons, some of them deadly, such a fusel oil, acetic acid, ethlyacetate, acetalyhyde, and furfruol. A quantity of some of these poisons taken neat would kill you. In the small amounts you find in a bottle of liquor they produce various ill effects which are lightly written off as "a hangover". Since you are a drinker, Mr. Bond, I will give you a word of good advice. Never drink so-calle Napoleon Brandy, particularly when it is described as 'Aged In Wood'. That particular potion contains more of the poisons than any other liquor I have analyzed. Old Bourbon comes next."

I also find it interesting that in many of the novels that the main villian is on record as abstaining from drinking, while are hero imbibes notoriously heroic amounts.


TomC