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boone
05-28-2004, 09:20
This was published, May 27, 2004, in the Courier Journal, Louisville Ky.

I have noticed in the last decade or so, special elections for a wet or dry vote...or a partial wet or dry vote...

The article published, was about Pulaski County allowing "by the drink" in restaurants and other establishements that meet certain requirements by law.

The article states that---the number of communities across Kentucky going wet has been increasing as suppoters tout alcohol sales as engines of economic development. Critics say selling alcohol brings problems and unwanted changes, but no communities have gone dry in recent years. In Oldham County last November, voters agreed to allow alcohol sales in restaurants, which supporters predicted would lead others to open restaurants and keep entertainment dollars in the community.

I frequent a small town in Hardin County, Elizabethtown. For as long as I can remember, that town was dry as dust. Several years ago, I kinda figured it was going to go partial wet. They started building restaurants with real "Bars" in them but the strongest drink you could get was a "Mountain Dew" http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif...Restaurants like Texas Road House, O'Charlies, Tumbleweed etc. After seeing that kinda money spent on a Bar without alcolhol, we knew that a change was going to happen http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. It did http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif and I am glad http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif...

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Bettye Jo http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

cowdery
05-28-2004, 10:05
From my time in Kentucky I remember that Oldham County, and no doubt others in the state, had a million ways of getting around the law. I remember at least one place at which regular patrons could rent a small locker behind the bar, which would be stocked with liquor they supplied. You would present your key--like a safe deposit box--and the bartender would give you your bottle or bottles along with any set-ups you requested. Other Oldham County places simply followed a BYOB policy. At one very proper restaurant I frequented, I used to get a kick out of the little old ladies who would have a pint bottle of Old Grand-Dad sitting on the table.

For those who don't know, Oldham County is adjacent to Jefferson County, which is where Louisville is located. It is along the river and much of it, like that part of Jefferson, is very upscale.

Gillman
05-29-2004, 04:32
In a fully dry county, I assume that the retail sale of alcoholic beverages is prohibited except where restaurants are licensed. Since automobiles, which most people have or have access to, allow one to travel to a nearby county in the State allowing sale of alcohol, I wonder why the counties that persist in being dry do so? At one time, when people were less mobile than today, a dry regime would ensure people bought less alcohol. Is that true today? I was interested to see how many counties are dry in Kentucky.

Gary

boone
05-29-2004, 07:15
I lived in Elizabethtown about twenty five years ago. We moved there for a short while http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif They like ta preach the "no alcohol here crap" but county line liquor stores are one of the best businesses to own, in these parts http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif If you live in a dry county, everyone just runs to the county line to get their alcohol.

In my little town where I live (now) it borders, Larue County. There is a liquor store right on river's edge (county line). The entire roof was it's advertising sign. When you entered Nelson County, the roof was painted with the words "First Chance"...When you left the county, it had "Last Chance" painted on the roof http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif This property came up for sale not long ago. We considered buying it http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/banghead.gif...but let it go. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif We have too many irons in the fire now http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Soooooooo...most major highways leading that between wet and dry counties...there is a liquor store http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Bettye Jo http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TNbourbon
05-29-2004, 08:40
Before I drive to KY from time to time, I usually run a Google search for "Kentucky wet counties" so I know where I can find liquor stores to browse. I've discovered a map similar to the one in your post several times. Another item I've found interesting is this University of Cincinnati study:
Wet vs. Dry in Kentucky (http://www.uc.edu/news/wetdry.htm)
It's a couple years old, but provides some interesting background nonetheless.
I've also run across the term "moist" to describe counties like Warren/Bowling Green, where a municipality is wet but the county is dry.
Incidentally, both Jack Daniel's (Moore County) and George Dickel (Coffee County) are located in Tennessee dry counties, though Coffee is 'moist' -- liquor sales are allowed in the county seat of Tullahoma.

cowdery
05-29-2004, 18:11
Don't assume anything. In Kentucky and other states that have "local option" you can find just about anything. Some places are hard core and will even bust people serving alcohol in private homes. Others wink at BYOB restaurants and even bars. Others permit "private clubs" (membership costs 50 cents) to serve alcohol. You are right that most places permit "by the drink" sales in bars and restaurants before they permit package sales, and some only permit alcohol to be sold in places that serve food--attempting to prohibit bars--but that is tough to police. Even here in Chicago, which is generally open, they use alcohol control to limit so-called "adult entertainment." It's a big deal for a "gentleman's club" to have a "full liquor bar," because many are only licensed to sell beer and wine.

Why does it persist, in a day and age when no one with a car is very far from a package store? I was always told, in Kentucky at least, that the three groups most opposed to legal liquor sales are the preachers and their flocks who oppose it on religious grounds, the bootleggers who want to protect their business and the law enforcement officials who want to protect the payoffs they get from the bootleggers.

Bootleggers? Yes indeed. Still an institution in dry counties. Why drive over to Whatsitsville when ole Dave is sellin' pints of Jack out of the trunk of his car out behind the old Tastee Freeze?

tdelling
05-29-2004, 20:10
>Even here in Chicago, which is generally open, they use alcohol control
>to limit so-called "adult entertainment." It's a big deal for a "gentleman's
>club" to have a "full liquor bar," because many are only licensed to sell
>beer and wine.

I've been told that there are only two counties in the entire US of A
that allow full nudity and (simultaneously) the unlimited sale of alcohol.
Oh, and I happen to live in one of those counties. (Champaign County, IL).

>Bootleggers? Yes indeed. Still an institution in dry counties. Why
>drive over to Whatsitsville when ole Dave is sellin' pints of Jack
>out of the trunk of his car out behind the old Tastee Freeze?

I've heard similar stores from Alabama. Apparently the cops (who run
the local racket) will pull you over if they think you've made a
liquor run to the next county, and will confiscate.

Tim Dellinger

gr8erdane
05-30-2004, 00:19
My favorite wet/dry experience was when my sister lived in Texarkana in the early seventies and I think it was State Line Blvd that ran right on the border between the states. On one side of the street in a wet county was bar after bar and on the other side in the dry county was church after church.

cowdery
05-30-2004, 02:22
I went to Miami University, in Oxford, Ohio, then the last bastion of 3.2 beer. College Corner, Indiana, which just happened to be across the state line, was the nearest town with full liquor sales. The town literally sat on the border, with all the bars on the Indiana side, of course. Can't say I remember where the churches were.

The other thing I remember was how easy it was to hitchhike there and back (it was about 7 miles) on a Friday afternoon. The traffic was solid and it was all going from Oxford to CC and back for the weekend liquor run. People also rode bikes and even walked. Friday afternoon liquor runs to CC were very much part of the Miami experience.

doubleblank
05-30-2004, 08:08
Here in Texas, "alcohol" is voted on a precinct-by-precinct basis. Even in the big city of Dallas, about 75% is dry. Most restaraunts in the dry areas allowed you to bring your own beer or wine in with you.....sure makes dining out cheap. All of Houston is wet. Regarding "gentlemen's clubs", the straight topless clubs have full licenses while the totally nude clubs can't sell anything....you get to bring your own in.....so I've been told.

Randy

cowdery
05-30-2004, 15:35
Yet Texas also permits open container in vehicles, not to mention concealed carry of firearms.

doubleblank
05-31-2004, 06:13
Chuck....We did away with open containers a few years ago....but I do have my license to carry. You've got to be careful where you go as many places prohibit firearms by law or policy.

Interesting sidenote about Louisiana. They also passed an open container law about the time Texas did. But they have a big drive thru frozen drink (margaritas, etc) business there. The drive thru owners got the lawmakers to incorporate language that saya as long as the plastic top was on the cup and a straw was not inserted thru the top, it would be considered a closed container. IOW, if you get pulled over, take the straw out and it becomes a closed container. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Randy

BSS
05-31-2004, 08:09
Many states allow you to carry a concealed firearm, KY included. But I think you need a permit to do so in all of them.

ratcheer
05-31-2004, 09:26
I thought it was weird when I heard this. In AL, at least (and, I haven't checked in a long time, so this may not be presently correct), while you must have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, it is perfectly permissible for an adult to carry a weapon openly, e.g., in a visible gunbelt. No special permit is required. Shades of the wild west!

OTOH, I can't recall seeing anyone doing this.

Tim

boone
05-31-2004, 09:42
In Kentucky...I think, the permit to carry a concealed weapon cost $10.00 and the class to learn how to use it was $75.00. You cannot be a convicted felon...

That is concealed...like in your purse, glove compartment, side holster (covered with clothing), or under the seat of your vehicle.

It's always been permissible to have a firearm in full view when traveling. We do alot of target shooting...lots of fun...When transporting a firearm from you home to the shoot...We keep it in full view.

Folks keep gun racks in thier truck (especially hunters) to keep them in view. Same with a pistol. As long as it's in view it was legal. As soon as you put it under the seat or in the glove compartment it's...ILLEGAL...

As for someone just carring it around in a side holster (in full view) like the law enforcement folks do...Well...it's something I have not seen in public. I have noticed alot of folks wearing concealed weapons since this law went into effect. I wonder, why someone would wear a gun to the grocery store? Geezzzzzz....

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Bettye Jo http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Paradox
05-31-2004, 09:44
Here in NYC, the trouble becomes trying to get a permit for a concealed weapon... Unless you are 'on the force' or have a verifiable reason to have to carry concealed, good luck! Around here, sometimes even an at home permit is more trouble than it is worth...

TNbourbon
05-31-2004, 10:22
In Tennessee, it seems, we are in a perpetual state of paradox (perhaps Mark would feel at home here http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif):
Open containers of beer are permissible except in the possession of the driver (heh, heh -- you got it: hand it off quick when you see the blue lights!). You can even have a concealed weapon and open container as long as you aren't legally DUI (ask Tennessee Titan Steve McNair, an otherwise great guy who stupidly risked both licenses last winter, but may survive because of lousy police procedure, a sharp lawyer, and his celebrity). If DUI, you lose both licenses.
The concealed carry permit is $115 for 3 years, after you've passed an approved firearms course. They are issued by the state Department of Safety (?), which also -- until very recently, like last week -- was issuing driver's licenses to illegal aliens without Social Security numbers.
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/soapbox.gifWe also have no income tax, an annual tight budget, and a surplus $1 billion in the Department of Perpetual Employment for Construction Workers (aka, Department of Transporation -- guess who has the better lobbyist: teachers or road-builders?) Surveys often state that Tennessee has the best highways in the country on which to drive drunk! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/drinking.gif

boone
05-31-2004, 13:26
Good Grief Man http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Our laws are probably kin the same direction (like ass http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/horseshit.gif). I posted the basics laws that I know...

Shoot far Billy Bob, you hold on ta my brew whilst I dig up my driver's liscense for this har' fuzzzzzzzz' man http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/bs.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/bs.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/bs.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/bs.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/bs.gif And take this har' 44 and don't tell em' we wuz using the road signs as clay pigeons http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Bettye Jo http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

gr8erdane
05-31-2004, 20:07
In Missouri where concealed carry is in it's infancy, some of the businesses have signs on the doors saying that the law doesn't include their premise like grocery stores and gas station/quicky marts.

Personally, I don't feel the need for myself to carry as I don't go anywhere I feel even slightly endangered, but home defense is another thing. At home I feel the need to rule through superior firepower. There is a sign next to the door from my garage into the house that states plainly:
No Trespassing
Violators will be shot.
Survivors will be shot again.
(It was sold as a novelty, but I fully intend it as a serious warning)
Maybe I should even add the part where I learned never to shoot anything I didn't intend to eat.... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/skep.gif