Do you sometimes just plain enjoy a good old fashion Macro Beer better then anything

[Jazzhead]

While I rarely drink macro beer (is Yuengling a macro at this point?), I love American-style light lagers on most occasions. Straubs from St. Mary's PA is my "regular" pour, and I'm finishing off a case of Stoney's that I found a couple of months ago. "Zesty" comes to mind, or even Budweiser's patented term "drinkability". Four good gulps after an afternoon of raking leaves yesterday and that can of Stoney's bit the dust.

Stoney's is actually Iron City. I was disappointed to find out that Jones Brewing of Smithton doesn't brew anymore; their beer has been brewed by Iron City (and in fact is Iron City; I can't taste any difference) for the last several years. Smithton is still referenced on the can and there's apparently still a "Jones Brewing" that markets the stuff. The brewery still stands, silently.

Here's the Stoney's Beer website . Turns out last year was their 100th anniversary! (By the way, that article was written by a reporter who claims that his aunt was Miss Olde Frothingslosh! )

[jesskidden]

I once thought like you did that the reason for adjuncts was only cost savings. While that may be part of it a friend of mine that works for AB and is a pretty upstanding guy claims that the use of adjunct in bud (rice) has as much if not more to do with a desired body and lightness of taste. He may just be drinking the AB Kool-aid but I'm inclined to give him some credit and like so many things the truth may lie in the middle.

[malto]

interesting stuff and thanks for the reply...the funny/ironic thing about this is they claim to use rice to make their beer in the Bohemian Pilsner style but of course the German's making beer in this style would never dream of using rice!

I'm pretty sure I once read that part of their original reasoning was that the barley available here to them in the states was harsher than European varieties so they compensated for that by adding rice to the mix.....

[jesskidden]

...the funny/ironic thing about this is they claim to use rice to make their beer in the Bohemian Pilsner style but of course the German's making beer in this style would never dream of using rice!

[Gillman]

But isn't the story that a German brewer brought his formulation for what became Pilsener Urquel, including the notably pale malt, to the Pilsen city fathers in 1842? This would seem to point to an all-barley malt grist unless a wheat beer was being made, which is not the case. Was his name Joseph Groll, this is from memory..?

I wonder too if "corn" in the 100 Years of Brewing text might have meant wheat, as in the expression "Corn Laws". Wheat was the classic adjunct in Europe but I gather oats and other grains were used too of occasion, and I accept that rice, probably brought from the East over the old trade route, might have been used at times and maybe even corn, but I doubt this was so for the best beers.

I would have thought that the original pils beers (in Europe) were all-malt and rice was used, as corn or corn flakes, mainly in the New World to ensure that the beers were not too cloudy from excessive protein levels. The quotes given by Jess, which are intertesting, are from before the times Helles beers became pale in Bavaria. To get clarity in a pale beer in the U.S., rice or adjunct had to be used because of the protein problem with North American pale malts. So in this sense it was correct for the cited parties to state that rice was necessary since that was the way to get the visual character of the Bohemian pilsener - but I don't think this meant the use of rice or corn was general in Bohemia.

Gary

[jesskidden]

I doubt, too, that corn or rice were "generally" used in Europe- only that it wasn't uncommon to use them, nor was it prohibited by a Rheinheitsgebot type law in the Austria-Hungarian area of Bohemia at the time.

"Wheat" has a separate entry in "100 Years of Brewing" under the ingredients sections, as do "Rye and Oats" and "Sugar, Syrups, etc." so I doubt they're including wheat under the discussion of "Corn".

Notably, under "Sugar, Syrups, etc." they write:

"In all German states, Bavaria alone excepted, sugar is used in brewing...Grape sugar for brewing was experimented with extensively as early as 1856, under the direction of the Bavarian minster for commerce, at Weihenstephan."

The book also notes that "the materials used in the manufacture of these different beers are: For German beers (Bavarian character) malt, hops and other cereals, and saccharine matter for special brands."

My point only is that adjunct brewing is hardly the creation of US brewers (who, of course, were primarily of German heritage at the time to begin with ). Ogle's "Ambitious Brew" claims that the leading brewing chemist in the creation of US adjunct brewing was Anton Schwarz, whose mentor was Karl Balling (inventor of the Balling Scale). Both were Bohemian and did extensive work in Prague's Polytechnic Institute in the study of adjunct brewing.

[Gillman]

I agree with all this and am aware that the pure beer law was specifically Bavarian before it became German (nationally), i.e., before unification. I believe though that pilsener was always a rich-bodied beer that probably eschewed adjuncts on its home turf.

I only recently discovered a superb reference for those interested in beer history, it is a blog by Ron Pattinson at www.barclayperkins.blogspot.com

Ron is a beer historian and writing a book which should be great and ground-breaking. He has uncovered much about the grists used in U.K., Irish and Continental beers in the last couple of hundred years. He cites a German book from the mid-1800's commenting on the characteristics of various national beers and it mentions the beers of Bohemia as being full-bodied for what that is worth (more than a German beer he compares it to but I can't remember which).

But I mention it here more for something I also came across by accident, which is a reference in a manual (internal, seemingly) from Whitbread on the gravities of their and other brewers' beers, written in the late 1930's. Ron Pattinson expresses surprise to find the American Ballantine beers included. I think the reason is that in the 1930's, post-Pro Ballantine hired a U.K. (Scots, I think) brewer. And he probably had the connections to the Whitbread brewers to send bottles or data from his brewery to get them in the book.

In this period (1939), Ballantine made IPA, Porter, XXX (still made) and Brown Stout. The IPA was about 7.5% ABV, the XXX about 5% (as it still is). I am rounding off: the extract reproduced by Pattinson gives the exact numbers.

Pattinson's work seems groundbreaking to me and there is much of else of great interest on the blog especially regarding the history of India Pale Ale, stout and porter and many other styles. A recurring theme is that porter and stout are not really different other than by strength and hop rates (and not whether roasted barley is used for example). On the left side of the main page is an alphabetical list from which earlier entries can be found. I have only started to look at this. Possibly Pattinson mentions a Bohemian grist for pale lager in the mid-1800's, I'll look further.

Gary

[polyamnesia]

once a year, i can take Bud...maybe it's a tradition...during the Super Bowl. it tastes great....but after 3 or 4, the taste reverts to bland...tasteless...same goes for coors, etc.

i'll still with yuengling and sam adams....are they actually Macro??? if so, that's the future...

but still, give me micro anyday.

[Lost Pollito]

I drink plenty of Old Style at Cubs games. Can't stand it in the off season... too many bad memories. :slappin:

[smokinjoe]

Absolutely, I do. Poly brought up about the tradition of the Super Bowl, and drinking Budweiser. I'm the same way around Christmas. My brother has been getting me the yearly Bud Christmas Steins since the early 80's, and I always have a 12 pack of Bud (with the nice holiday packaging:)) ready to go when I pour my first into the stein each season. A Corona is still tough to beat as a bracing refresher after a hard workout in the Summer heat. Bud Select is my light beer of choice, when I can't find the Bud Ice Light. But, I always have good 'ol regular Bud around all year.

Hey, the Micro's are great. I enjoy many of them. But, I still like some regulars, now and again.

[Gillman]

I agree, Joe. I still like many of the mass-production beers. (Sam Adams is definitely not macro, nor is Yuengling really since Yuengling is an old independent - small-scale - brewery but its Traditional Lager, the big seller, is sort of styled to a macro approach. Its Porter is kind of a bridge between macro and micro).

There is a time and place for everything.

Gary

[jesskidden]

I only recently discovered a superb reference for those interested in beer history, it is a blog by Ron Pattinson at www.barclayperkins.blogspot.com

In this period (1939), Ballantine made IPA, Porter, XXX (still made) and Brown Stout. The IPA was about 7.5% ABV, the XXX about 5% (as it still is). I am rounding off: the extract reproduced by Pattinson gives the exact numbers.

I came across Pattinson's site with the Ballantine's stats a while ago. Very interesting (tho' too bad IBU's- then called just "BU" then IIRC- weren't listed).

Pabst recently started websites for a lot of their brands (very generic looking and not much info, and what there is of it seems simply lifted from Wikipedia- mistakes and all.) The Ballantine Ale page lists the current ABV as 4.85% (much lower than the traditional 5.25-5.6% it's been listed at over the years). That's similar to most of the other Pabst brands and, somewhat confusingly actually says the beer has a "higher alcohol content" and an "elevated alcohol level" . Huh? Sorry, Pabst, that's less than Bud.

It also seems to imply (as rumor has long had it ever since Miller got the contract) that it's now a "bastard ale", brewed with lager yeast but at higher than normal temps. At least, that's a possible explanation for awkward terms like "Ale in nature" and "Fermented at higher temperatures for that ‘ale’ likeness, Ballantine combines a lager’s best attributes with the smoothness of an ale."

The new cardboard case also touts the beer as having "Dry Hopped Flavor" (again, somewhat awkward phrasing- why not just "Dry Hopped"?) but, of course, Ballantine XXX Ale was famous for having distilled hop oils added, not for being dry hopped.

Also, in the case of the history page for Ballantine, it seems they just copy/pasted an edited version of the Ballantine Ale page on the Falstaff Beer fan site. They also mistakenly call the product "Ballantine Beer" in a couple of places on the Ale website as well as the Pabst website. where it's listed as a "Pearl" brand. Pabst is such a sad company (I suspect that the websites are the product of unpaid interns or something).

[Gillman]

Thanks, Jess. 5.14 and 5.21 ABV for samples from bottled and canned XXX (1939) -not a big difference from the current, factoring too tolerances.

My main interest in Ballantine is to see whether Pabst will bring back the India Pale Ale. This is one of the most acute of the desiderata in the current beer world, IMO.

Gary

[floatingfast]

I'm a fan of the IPA's. I recommend Bell's Two Hearted Ale....It is one of my favorites.

Macros that I still enjoy every once in awhile: Guiness, Grolsh...rather than Corona I prefer Miller High Life-for the lighter side.