JD Black Vs. Green

[mozilla]

If Dickel white was actually 12yrs old....I would be buying it more often. You can never have enough well aged whisky on the market. Somehow, I doubt that they have enough warehouse space to age their juice that long.

[fishnbowljoe]

Was at a party at a friends house tonight. The host along with a couple of buddies there are big JD Drinkers. Along with black, the host had Silver Select and Green. Of course the Silver Select was great, but as far as the bottle of green that was there, I actually preferred it to the black. The banana/charcoal taste was not near as prevalent in this bottle of green. A nice smooth pour. Joe

PS. A little side note here. I've given up bringing really good bourbons to taste when our group gets together. I have a bit of an excess of KC, so I brought a bottle tonight. I was a bit surprised when it actually went over okay. :skep: I don't get it. They've turned up their noses at 07 GTS, Centennial, ER 101,07 WLW and 07 ER17, amongst others. You never can tell.

[goodyrb]

It was many years ago, but I lived in TN and went through the distillery many times and then had lunch at Miss BoBo's ?? They could make the whisky there, but you can't buy any because, at least then, Coffee County was dry! The distillery master told me that the only difference between the two was age. Green was 4 years and black was 7 years. Many years ago they also made a real green whiskey called Len Motlow's after the distillery master. It was made after prohibition to get some cash flow while the other whisky were aging. I still have a couple bottles of Lem's whisky on the shelf some place. Ever since LD pulled a fast one by secretly raising prices through lowering proof, I don't buy it any more.

[Maddog918]

Dickel white and black label are only four years old. I believe that you are confusing the No. 12 with 12 Year.

[PAspirit1]

For me this summer, my choice for whiskey has been American. I guess the scotch is going to go on hold for a while-maybe untill a rainy autumn day in october. I got the hots to pick up some JD Black yesterday and I approached it with some enthusiasm. It is light in flavor but I thought it was good strait. I think it would be a good candidate for a flask whiskey.

[Bourbon Geek]

Given the relative volume of Black Jack compared to the rest of the lot ... I can't believe there is really much of a selection process going on ... other than selecting whatever barrels are ready to go ...

Here's my guess at the progression as Jack sales went thru the roof ... Years ago, Black was 90 proof and about 7 years old ... then 6 years old ... then 86 proof ... then 5 years old ... then 4 1/2 years old ... then 80 proof ...

I'm pretty sure that Green is 4 years and 80 proof. They could be pulling the green specifically from a lower floor ... but the Black has to be coming from pretty much everywhere because it probably represents like 95% or so of the total Jack sales ...

End of the day, my guess is that essentially Black and Green differ only by about 6 months of age ... give or take ... I'm not sure why they keep Green it around ...

[ThomasH]

At one point in time a few years ago, Ohio raised the price of Black label quite a bit. The difference between a green label 750 and a black label 750 was something like $6.00. This only lasted for 2 or 3 months until the green had a price increase. In the mean time, green label sold out as fast as the shelves were stocked and the black label mostly sat on the shelf. Ohio even has green label 1.75L bottles but the supply of them comes and goes!

Thomas

[AVB]

Edit: So now I'm repeating myself from what I wrote previously. I thought this was a newer thread.

[silverfish]

This past wknd, I spotted the Green on the

shelves in NY for the first time. A 750 was

priced $2.00 lower than the black. The shelf

tag read "It comes from the cooler parts of

the barrel house" or words to that effect.

[Westernboys]

Last month we took a tour of JD and the guide told us the difference between green and black was "the green comes from the lower part of the warehouse". Could make sense since the whiskey wouldn't interact with the barrels as much at more consistent temps.

[RamblinWreck007]

The "standard" Beam is a 4 year old white label.

Next comes "Beam's Choice", a 5 year old with a green label.

Then comes a 7 year old Beam, also with a white label.

Finally comes Jim Beam Black, 8 years old with a black (what else? ) label.

My understanding was that Beam Choice (green) underwent some charcoal mellowing prior to bottling, like a reverse Lincoln Co. Process?

[cowdery]

Go here for background about Beam's Choice and its relationship to Jack's green label.

Read the comments too. As I note there, "most bourbon is chill-filtered, which occurs just before bottling and usually involves charcoal. The words 'charcoal filtered' on a bourbon label refer to that process."

There are no charcoal mellowing vats at Clermont.

[T Comp]

And here is a link to a 2/3/78 advertisement in the St. Petersburg Times with further marketing copy on Beam's Black Label and charcoal filtering after aging. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=YfILAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mlkDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6566,2121272&dq=history+of+beam's+sour+mash&hl=en

[RamblinWreck007]

Thanks for the additional info. I guess I was confusing "charcoal filtering for mellowness" (from the linked ad) with actual charcoal mellowing.

[cowdery]

I had forgotten that the two Beam JD knock-offs originally featured 'sour mash' prominently on the label too.

To Beam's credit, they have continued these products but steadily moved them away from their origin as JD knock-offs.

I often talk to people about the difference between JD and bourbon. One of the most common distinctions drawn by lay people is that, for example, Jim Beam is a bourbon whiskey while Jack Daniel's is a sour mash whiskey. In fact, virtually every bourbon made is a 'sour mash' whiskey. Daniel's just chose to put those words on the label.

[flsean]

Take it for what it is worth, but this is from Wikipedia:

Previously, the famous black-label brand (the better-quality, higher-priced product) had been 86 proof, where legal, while the lower-end green label was 80 proof. This was the second reduction in alcohol content since the Brown-Forman Corporation bought the distillery in 1956. They had previously reduced the alcohol content from bottling the black-label product at 90 proof and the green-label product at 86. Both are made from the same ingredients; the difference is determined by professional tasters, who determine which of the batches will be graded as worthy of being labeled with the prestigious black label, the rest being sold under the green label.

I find it curious that the Jack Daniels sight pretty much devoid of information on the green label.

They do have this in the faqs though:

Jack Daniel's Green Label is a lighter, less mature whiskey with a lighter color and character. The barrels selected for Green Label tend to be on the lower floors and more toward the center of the warehouse where the whiskey matures more slowly.

http://www.jackdaniels.com/faq.aspx

[TNbourbon]

All JD warehouses are seven stories. All green-label comes from the 1st floor, because it never matures enough, taste-wise, to become black label. Yes, probably bottled very close to 4 years old.

End of story.

[proof and age]

Have enjoyed debating this over the last 10 years or so, as the proofs equalized. Likely to be as many have stated on this thread, the green label is from the lower floors of the rackhouses. Absent any age statements, for both products, and not being designated as Straight, the true differences should be small. I would look to price points as a guide to which package I'd purchase.

[bourduc]

Just a question among the questions, if I may...are the rickhouses/rackhouses the same for JB and JD? I have not been to JD distillery yet...

Thanks,

Rob

[proof and age]

Just a question among the questions, if I may...are the rickhouses/rackhouses the same for JB and JD? I have not been to JD distillery yet...

Thanks,

Rob

If the whiskey is treated like Straight, there should be in the area of 200 +/- rackhouses at this distillery. On scale, and after a number of visits there, I cannot confirm that there are not "alternative and experimental" warehousing methods in deployment. I am assured that we would have never been shown anything that did not fit the template there. Lacking the Straight designation on labeling opens many doors, looking forward to hearing some first hand accounts from posters who might have seen different views of the actual operation in Lynchburg.

[squire]

It's just the way they choose to label it to further differentiate their product from Kentucky and Bourbon.

[proof and age]

It's just the way they choose to label it to further differentiate their product from Kentucky and Bourbon.

It has been marketed as such, granted. Back in the day, when the luster on Bourbon was not as bright as it is today, I could see where this sort of marketing might have some traction. But alas, now that there is a renewed respect for Bourbon, and American Straight whiskey in general, coupled with the reality that more and more folks understand the actaul regs, this approach is rapidly expiring.

[proof and age]

All JD warehouses are seven stories. All green-label comes from the 1st floor, because it never matures enough, taste-wise, to become black label. Yes, probably bottled very close to 4 years old.

End of story.

End of story if you have seen all of the storage facilities. i have never talked to anyone who has, have you?

[Josh]

Beam warehouses (ones I've seen in pictures anyway) use pallets instead of a classic rickhouse design. The barrels are stored on end on pallets stacked very high in large open warehouses. Those are the ones on the grounds of their two distilleries. They also may store barrels elsewhere. Last time I drove past Old Crow, I recall seeing barrels in the warehouses that were still standing. Those, I assume, use the classic rack/rick setup.

And given the fact that JD Black label is the best-selling American Whiskey in the world, I don't think it is suffering too much from not having "straight bourbon" on the label.

[proof and age]

Beam warehouses (ones I've seen in pictures anyway) use pallets instead of a classic rickhouse design. The barrels are stored on end on pallets stacked very high in large open warehouses. Those are the ones on the grounds of their two distilleries. They also may store barrels elsewhere. Last time I drove past Old Crow, I recall seeing barrels in the warehouses that were still standing. Those, I assume, use the classic rack/rick setup.

Palletized is the term used for this type of warehousing. It was an experiment at JB and is being phased out per my understanding. I can say with absolute certainty that JB has mostly rickhouse storage, buildings with average of seven to nine floors, 3 barrels high each floor. Old school storage methods, metal sheeted buildings that are pretty much at the mercy of the elements.