Is Red Gag dying?

[silverfish]

Not to hijack this thread but has

anyone tried this "infused" scotch:

drinkhacker.com/2009/10/25/review-compass-box-orangerie/

"The folks at Compass Box make some unusual whiskys to

begin with, but Orangerie is something unlike any other

Scotch you’re likely to have tried: Take a Highland single

malt whisky (from Fife) and add hand-zested Navalino

orange peel, Indonesian cassia (cinnamon), and Sri Lankan

cloves to it. Bottle the infusion and you have Orangerie,

now back on the market after three years of unavailability."

[AVB]

I have not had it and Scotch has a different set of regulations they have to follow.

[p_elliott]

I've stayed out of this but tell me what is different from red stag than a 100 years ago when whiskey drummers bought bourbon and added fruit juice or sulfuric acid to it? It was just Bourbon infused with fruit juice or Bourbon infused with sulfuric acid. Taylor and and lot of others fought hard to stop this and now we are just going to roll over and let it back in. Chuck just because you happen to like don't let it cloud your judgement on history. This was the whole reason for the regulations and now the Government is laying down on it. Using terminology doesn't make it right straight bourbon is straight bourbon or isn't it. Beam should be using different wording in their labeling and their advertising.

[cowdery]

Let's just say I'm satisfied we know where everyone stands on this.

[callmeox]

I would love to see a label from a rectifier indicating that their product was bourbon laced with sulfuric acid.

An oversimplification of the problem back then was that the addition of other substances was not on the label.

Anyhow, who is "we"? How are "we" rolling over?

The Beam ready to drink line has been using the KSBW with _______ label with no protests from here. Where have the knights on white horses been all this time?

I've stayed out of this but tell me what is different from red stag than a 100 years ago when whiskey drummers bought bourbon and added fruit juice or sulfuric acid to it? It was just Bourbon infused with fruit juice or Bourbon infused with sulfuric acid. Taylor and and lot of others fought hard to stop this and now we are just going to roll over and let it back in. Chuck just because you happen to like don't let it cloud your judgement on history. This was the whole reason for the regulations and now the Government is laying down on it. Using terminology doesn't make it right straight bourbon is straight bourbon or isn't it. Beam should be using different wording in their labeling and their advertising.

[AVB]

They weren't and aren't calling those mixes bourbon. It isn't the product itself, although I personally don't care for it, it is the advertising that is calling it bourbon which it plainly is not. "New Breed of Bourbon" implies that it is bourbon. Jim Beam with cola does not.

The Beam ready to drink line has been using the KSBW with _______ label with no protests from here. Where have the knights on white horses been all this time?

[Joshua]

"Its marketed to frat boys and twenty-something adolescence who want something that to all outward appearances looks like bourbon but is sweet and tastes as much or more like the "added" flavoring than the underlying spirit."

I'm going to have to agree with this. I'm in my late 20s, and NO ONE my age around here drinks bourbon neat. Everyone acts like I'm crazy for ordering a WT101 neat at the bar. However, lots of guys my age WANT to drink bourbon because it's 'tough' or they can be like 'I go to the bar and drink whiskey! Screw beer, that's for sissy's!" "I'm going to impress this girl by drinking whiskey! Give me a red stag on the rocks!" They proceed to slam it down as fast as possible and make some sort of primal grunt as they smash the glass down onto the counter... It's the same as ri1 with the fancy "vodka" bottle to me.

I'm not going to deny for a second that I'm a snob about it... I love the history behind bourbon, I love that when I was a kid all of the old timers I looked up to drank bourbon. I'm somewhat afraid of change and losing that culture. Does this have a huge role in why I hate Beam's marketing and such- you bet it does.

[AVB]

Everyone? Isn't that a little pretentious?

Let's just say I'm satisfied we know where everyone stands on this.

[ILLfarmboy]

"Its marketed to frat boys and twenty-something adolescence who want something that to all outward appearances looks like bourbon but is sweet and tastes as much or more like the "added" flavoring than the underlying spirit."

I'm going to have to agree with this. I'm in my late 20s, and NO ONE my age around here drinks bourbon neat. Everyone acts like I'm crazy for ordering a WT101 neat at the bar. However, lots of guys my age WANT to drink bourbon because it's 'tough' or they can be like 'I go to the bar and drink whiskey! Screw beer, that's for sissy's!" "I'm going to impress this girl by drinking whiskey! Give me a red stag on the rocks!" They proceed to slam it down as fast as possible and make some sort of primal grunt as they smash the glass down onto the counter... It's the same as ri1 with the fancy "vodka" bottle to me.

I'm not going to deny for a second that I'm a snob about it... I love the history behind bourbon, I love that when I was a kid all of the old timers I looked up to drank bourbon. I'm somewhat afraid of change and losing that culture. Does this have a huge role in why I hate Beam's marketing and such- you bet it does.

[callmeox]

Everyone? Isn't that a little pretentious?

Not when you step back and look at the posters in this thread. I don't think that anyone is on the fence on this and I assume that's what Chuck was trying to say.

[cowdery]

Everyone? Isn't that a little pretentious?

Are you kidding me? Is English not your first language? We're both simply repeating ourselves. I'm tired of it. I'm offering to agree to disagree so you start name-calling? You're out of bounds, sir.

[fishnbowljoe]

I'm not the biggest fan of Beam products, although I do have some Beam Black and KC in the bunker. (I was offered a deal I couldn't refuse:grin: ) I do drink Beam White w/coke at the bowling alley because......well......, because that's all they have. A couple of things that intrigue me, the Red Stagg IMHO isn't nearly as good as Beam White (which itself isn't all that great), it's not KSBW, and yet it costs more.

Sometimes I have a hard time understanding things that go on in the bourbon world. Beam White is the largest selling bourbon in the world. Evidently Beam makes a lot of money selling it. The small batch collection as a whole, is decent, but not great. It seems to me that Beam is trying to gain more market share by trying to come up with a product that appeals to a younger crowd ( ri 1 and Red Stagg). To me, it would make more sense to try and make a truly great upper-mid shelf or top shelf bourbon. I know that would appeal more to a lot of us here, but I think that it would appeal to others too. The Beam name alone could possibly sway others into trying it. I know there are many different issues involved in this, but what do the rest of you think? Joe

[funknik]

I think you're right, Joe, but Beam is big business. As you said, they hold the largest selling bourbon, so why mess around too much. The ri1 with it's slick bottle does seem intended to appeal to the youngsters, but at $45+ a bottle, I think they ARE trying to make a play to the dudes like us -- we're just not falling for it.

People who don't know any better (myself included in the past) think that the small batch collection is REALLY PREMIUM whiskey . . . mostly because it's on the top shelf and comes in really nice bottles and they only shop for liquor at the grocery store -- they don't even know it's related to JB. Beam could go big, but I think they're like, "why bother?" They service the quantity folks (like HH & BF), let 4R & BT have the quality dudes like us.

[Josh]

...The Beam name alone could possibly sway others into trying it. I know there are many different issues involved in this, but what do the rest of you think? Joe

I'd let to see that from Beam. But I think even if they did, some whiskey-lovers would still poo-poo it just because it's Beam. I have observed that some seem to have issues with Beam that go beyond their actual products, but are some sort of personal animosity based on their marketing strategies, familiarity breeding contempt or whatever other issues may be at play.

I like KC, JBB, JBDS, OGD & OGD BiB. Booker's and Baker's are also good, but overpriced. Basil Hayden is WAY overpriced. But I also think Lot B, and the Pappys are overpriced. But I still drink them.

[fishnbowljoe]

I would just like to see Beam put in as much effort as, say BT, WT, HH and FR when it comes to producing a high quality/specialty product. Even though there may be times when other distilleries haven't quite hit the nail on the head, at least they are trying. And, for the most part having a lot of success. The BTAC, Parker's Heritage, WT special bottlings and the FR Mariage and barrel proof offerings are all shining examples. It just appears to me that Beam is trying to come up with something new, without a lot of time, money or effort put forth. It's almost like they are resting on their laurels of mediocrity. I dunno. I hate to think I've turned into a bourbon snob, but....... Oh well. Maybe it's like Andy said. Beam has the #1 selling bourbon in the world. Why bother? Joe

[Lost Pollito]

I would just like to see Beam put in as much effort as, say BT, WT, HH and FR when it comes to producing a high quality/specialty product. Even though there may be times when other distilleries haven't quite hit the nail on the head, at least they are trying. And, for the most part having a lot of success. The BTAC, Parker's Heritage, WT special bottlings and the FR Mariage and barrel proof offerings are all shining examples. It just appears to me that Beam is trying to come up with something new, without a lot of time, money or effort put forth. It's almost like they are resting on their laurels of mediocrity. I dunno. I hate to think I've turned into a bourbon snob, but....... Oh well. Maybe it's like Andy said. Beam has the #1 selling bourbon in the world. Why bother? Joe

Yes, yes, yes!!! What He said.:grin:

[callmeox]

Anyone have a new opinion on this? :slappin:

[emr454]

They were all out of it at my local liquor store. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad sign. Hopefully, they were all out because no one bought any and decided not to restock the shelves, rather than being out because it keeps selling.

We can only hope...

Eric

[Lost Pollito]

Well I can tell you I had a guy in the bourbon aisle tell me he loved bourbon, and needed to get some more Stagg. I was headed down to the vault for a GTS for him when he said, never mind I found it. He held up a bottle of red stagg. At least he was in the aisle. A conversion may occur next time.:grin: In other beam news....ri (1) has dropped in price to $30. I may buy a bottle now. :grin:

[ILLfarmboy]

Well I can tell you I had a guy in the bourbon aisle tell me he loved bourbon, and needed to get some more Stagg. I was headed down to the vault for a GTS for him when he said, never mind I found it.........

[whskylvr]

We sold the R Stagg okay when it first came out but only as a combo with another buy. For instance buy 3 beam white label get a red stagg free. Nobody has ever just bought a bottle by itself

I have to carry it and It's just taking up space of a real bourbon.

[jburlowski]

Every bartender I've asked (locally and when on the road) has said that it's very popular. One local place even sells it in some strange concoction with Jaggermeister. :puke:

[AVB]

I hate to say but after the initial push it did die out at my local store but picked up over the holiday season. The manager says he is selling 3-4 bottles a week now of this crap.

[smokinjoe]

Well I can tell you I had a guy in the bourbon aisle tell me he loved bourbon, and needed to get some more Stagg. I was headed down to the vault for a GTS for him when he said, never mind I found it. He held up a bottle of red stagg. At least he was in the aisle. A conversion may occur next time.:grin: In other beam news....ri (1) has dropped in price to $30. I may buy a bottle now. :grin:

[Cmurfs73]

Guys just to tell you it is 4year old white label that is infused with black cherry juice. i know this beacuse i used to sell it. Now in Virginia it is doing pretty well to the point they have gottten additional size distribution. it was available in 50ml and 750ml only, and in a matter of months they have made a 375ml and liter available. Im sure next listing will be the 1.75. Now as far as the joke earlier about the bananna flavor they do have other flavors in the works. Word is a cinnamon could be coming in the future. Just wanted to let you know what's going on out this way, and I dont see it going away, matter of fact the cheaters will be out soon trying to get them just like the wild turkey honey cheaters that are now available...