jeffmac Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Well, after viewing this forum for almost three years and never positing a message, I've decided make my first post by voting for my favorite distillery, Brown-Forman. Now, I have to admit that I am a little bit biased as I am a part-time tour guide at Labrot & Graham. A little over two years ago, I discovered that I could actually get paid to ramble on incessantly about a topic that I enjoyed so much. It's pretty much been a dream job. Anyway, I look forward to being a member of the group and hopefully taking part in some of the discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcheer Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 And you can be sure that you are very welcome, here. Thanks for joining in.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest **DONOTDELETE** Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Good Deal Jeff! Welcome to Bourbonia! We're looking forward to reading more of your posts, as good inside information is always desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepcycle Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Jeff, Glad to see you got around to posting. When I met you in Liquor Barn at the Elmer T. Lee and Julian Van Winkle III signing, I suspected you were ready to jump in. Welcome aboard. BLEEE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmac Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Fellows, thanks for the warm welcome, I appreciate it. Ed, I'm sure I will be seeing you often at Liquor Barn. I'm usually there about five out of six days of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creggor Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Hello, Everyone. Been awhile since I have posted. Been working 2 jobs and enjoying my Bourbon most every night after working.. My favorite. Buffalo Trace.Was an easy choice after Julian Vanwinkle came on board with them. Tehy have some of the finest all around selections available on the market today. I dearly love Wild Turkey Kentucky Spirit and like Rare Breed. But Buffalo Trace has something for all taste and budgets. Waiting on my Stagg to arrive.. Love the 2001 bottling of 18yr Sazerac Rye and what more can you say about Juliansvarious whiskeys. His 13 yr Rye is as good as most any I ever tasted, I could go on and on but BT gets my vote, Creggor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest **DONOTDELETE** Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Hey thanks for voting Creggor! That puts Buffalo Trace into first place with Wild Turkey second. Jim Beam a solid third. A three way tie for fourth place with Brown-Forman; Maker's Mark, and Heaven Hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywood Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 I must agree Buffalo Trace and the Turkey products are definitely one and two (depending on who you ask!) This my not warrant a new post, but I pose this question....who would have been first six months to a year ago (possibly by a good margin), if not for a super-hot product recently?! Hmmmmm...See ya, H'wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 No question on my vote. I voted for BT before I tasted or even thought of GTS. I must admit, even though WT has a very good set of bourbons (and very easy to find in a bar, so a good go-to bourbon when out on the town), they just don't set my heart afire. I guess this is because I like the bread and butter BT products more than the equivalent WT products. I don't buy enough of the top shelf stuff to make a valid comparison. I hate to spend over $30 if I don't know I will like the bourbon. (But, if I do, watch out.) Pre-Stagg, I couldn't form a valid opinion due to reluctance to splurge on KS, Blanton's, etc. However, I am very glad that WT offers RB in a 375 ml size in NC. I do love that bottling. If more sizes like that were available in NC, I'd sample alot of the top shelf more often.For breadth and variety of product, I think BT is better for me. It doesn't bother me if others like WT better or if I can't appreciate WT the way they day. Heck, they are both great distilleries and the more you all drink of Turkey, the more BT products I get. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest **DONOTDELETE** Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Forget about 'hot product' Eric! Jack Daniels is the #1 selling American Whiskey. Jim Beam is #2, and Evan Williams is #3. What is amazing here is that distilleries well out of the top three come in #1 and #2. This shows we don't buy marketing hype; nor do we care who sells what. We only care what bourbon / American Whiskey tastes best to us. I've not revieved a check from any given distillery to vote their way. I trust that you haven't either. We taste. We drink. We think. No one buys our vote. We like what we like just becuse we like it. This is beautiful thing. Buffalo Trace is # 1. Wild Turkey #2. I would realy have liked to have seen Brown-Forman in the top three. The seven million dollar restoration of Labrot & Graham plus the $100,000 donation to the Mount Vernon Ladies Association for the reserection of George Washington's Dogue Run Distillery. Now we have Old Forester Birthday Bourbon. Is Jim Beam really doing more than Brown-Forman for the future of bourbon? No! Not by a long shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywood Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Linn, Linn, Linn. You missed it again. I agree totally. BT and WT are distinctly one and two. Or is it two and one?(FYI-I do like Brown-Forman at 3). The two mentioned have the best products running, I am not questioning any others with my point... Again, for some people maybe six months ago WT was in slight favor over BT, but then came the Stagg! Read the post...Can't deny Stagg is a "hot product", and damn sure is good enough to leap-frog WT, especially if you liked both almost equally! See ya, H'wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Wonder if I can revive the talk about Willett's and whether it is still (via E. Kulsveen or otherwise) available.I had mentioned earlier in the thread that in the 1960's a Mr. Thomason, their distiller (who started in the business before Prohibition) commented on the great qualities of Willett's product, that it was traditionally full-bodied and with rich bouquet. I did not understand then but now do (through reading through old posts) that E. Kulsveen bottled Willett's whiskey for quite some time after the still room closed, even well into the 1990's. Sam Cecil also says this in his classic book on Kentucky distilleries.I understand Johnny Drum, available I believe only in export markets, contained Willett's whiskey, or at least the 15 year old did.Can anyone confirm if Johnny Drum is still available?If so where, and does it contain Willett's whiskey?I bought some Corner's Creek in the hope it might be Willett's but to me it is from Heaven Hill, it has that signature taste.Thanks for any info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Just bringing forward a previous post in which I was asking about Willett's and the whiskeys currently marketed by Evan Kulsveen. Both in this thread and others I think the consensus was that Mr. Kulsveen sourced his whiskeys from Willett's but when that stock ran out he sourced them elsewhere, probably Heaven Hill. Bobby mentioned that the Old Bardstown brand seemingly changed from the old days. In the Sauceguide to Drinks and Drinking I mentioned earlier today, a number of brands are identified coming from "Kentucky Bourbon Distillers Ltd., Bardstown". This seems to be connected to Mr. Kulsveen who it is known concentrates (but not exclusively) on the foreign market. The bourbons from this company listed in Sauceguide are: Johnny Drum Green Label, Johnny Drum 12-year old, Johnny Drum 15-year old, Noah's Mill, Old Bardstown 6-year old, Old Bardstown 101 (10 years old, 101 proof), and Rowan's Creek, ("small batch .. produced from no more than 12 casks"). Under the first Johnny Drum mentioned (Green Label), the capsule comment states, "This Kentucky Straight Bourbon was made at the Willett distillery before its closure in the early 1980's. It has been aged four years". This seems to say the Johnny Drum line (at least) was distilled at Willett's. How could that be for any of these Johnny Drums including a 4 year old whiskey? Perhaps thousands of bottles of different ages were bottled before the distillery closed and have been slowly released into the market ever since. Another interpretation of course is that Sauceguide is simply telling us that Johnny Drum was at one time produced at Willett's but is no longer. Yet, that is an odd statement to make, why would they not say where it is made now? Well, perhaps they don't know - we here have not been sure where post-Willett's whiskey has been sourced, the candidates are HH or possibly Barton's for some of it. Some whiskey in the EK line seems clearly to be from one of these sources, e.g., Corner's Creek to me has an HH signature (that dry grassy taste some HH production has). Could it be that Johnny Drum (any age) is the last of the Willett's and the other EK brands mentioned are all from HH or Barton's? This seems possible but unlikely, i.e., I would think nothing from EK being sold today is from Willett's, yet who knows..? Rowan's Creek is a well-aged product and if the Johnny Drums are Willett's, maybe that is too.. I haven't tasted any of the Johnny Drums but I know Rowan's Creek quite well and it does not taste like HH to me (unless it is an older version of EW 7 year old, because that (to me) has an "atypical" HH taste). Bobby had asked about the current 10 year old Old Bardstown. Here is what Sauceguide says, "rich and rounded, but elegant and supple, with a dry spicy oak pedestal supporting a balance of chocolate, vanilla, gingerbread, caffe latte notes, retaining balance as it continues to open up". Sounds pretty good.Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boone Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 The "Old Bardstown" label sits in our label room (Heaven Hill). It's not real popular, but we do run it on occasion. Bettye Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Thanks Bettye Jo.Here by the way is a statement under "Noah's Mill" in Sauceguide, "This small batch 15-year-old Bourbon was made at the old Willett distillery before its closure in the early 1980's".Sounds pretty definite that Noah's Mill was made at Willett's (which Charlie Thomason lauded, with detailed reasons, as one of the last truly traditional distilleries in his 1960's-era article printed in the official magazine issued for the 2002 Bourbon Festival in Bardstown).Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeNell Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Current Noah's Mill on the market came from Willett's? Any possibility to get a copy of that article? Sounds really interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Well, that is what the notes given in Sauceguide seem to say but I don't think the picture is 100% clear yet. Anyway, the Sauceguide publications (there is also one on cocktails) should be available in any large magazine store in a large metro area such as New York's. Also, note their website, www.sauceguides.com. I found the information in this guide first-rate, the discussion of bourbon and its history is very good, for example. The magazine has excellent chapters on tequila, vodka, Irish and Scotch whisky, liqueurs and many other kinds of drinks currently popular. It is almost 200 pages long and was sold in Toronto for only $15.00 (CAN), well worth the price.Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendaj Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Gary,In the 60's, they called it The World's Greatest Bourbon . I know that really means very little, but it was probably good stuff. Old Bardstown Bj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendaj Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Gary, Your information is most likely correct. Mr. Kulsveen married a Willett. He bottles out of the old Willett Distillery building. I had some photos of the defunct distillery and the bottling operation running on a website a couple of years ago (from an undercover operation... ). I'll look for them. My son worked for him for awhile. Interesting fellow. Bj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Nice history, thanks.Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Thanks. The only reason I am interested in this question of Willett's whiskey is because of that Charlie Thomason article. It explained the numerous classic techniques utilised by that company (discussed on these boards in detail some time ago). And therefore, if whiskey was still available today that had been made at Willett's, I'd like to get my hands on it. When I said earlier that bottling from Willett's barrels of different ages might have been done at time of closure (some time between the mid-70's-early 80's, accounts differ) of course bottling might (and seems to have) continued for some some time afterwards, too. Say distillate was made in 1976. Well, it could have been bottled as late as 1991 at 15 years old and maybe later if some spirits distillation continued as late as the early 1980's. And we know distillate can be bottled at a stated age whereas in fact it can be older. I know some people said distillation ceased in the early 70's when the plant was converted to ethanol production. But again, even mid-70's production would have allowed whiskey to have been bottled into about the early 1990's using a (minimum) 15 year age statement. Younger ages would have had to be (in practice) bottled earlier but maybe they were and were retained in inventory for years after, then labelled and sold when the vendor wished or market permitted. So maybe the current Johnny Drum 4, 12 and especially the 15 year old - and Noah's Mill - were made at Willet's. Sauceguide seems to say that they were but I am not sure it meant actually to say that.Is Willett's whiskey today just a memory? I don't know..Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendaj Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Is Willett's whiskey today just a memory? I don't know.. Truthfully, I think it is most likely gone. I can see where they might have continued aging Bourbon in the warehouses after they converted to ethanol. Bottling it at maturity, for as long as it lasted.When my son worked there, he swore the warehouses were empty. If I had to guess now, I'd say Mr. Kulsveen is using alot of Heaven Hill.Just my opinion...Bj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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