Wild Emerald XXX yr

[spun_cookie]

Tim, Sounds good....

I amtasting mine just a little over a month old and the diff is significant. It is very close to the RR101 now in taste. Hard to belive. I am thiniking a few more weeks and I will pull it out.

I am thinking about going with Old Charter 12 yr from Frankfort in it next.

[ErichPryde]

Tim, Sounds good....

I amtasting mine just a little over a month old and the diff is significant. It is very close to the RR101 now in taste. Hard to belive. I am thiniking a few more weeks and I will pull it out.

I am thinking about going with Old Charter 12 yr from Frankfort in it next.

Like WTRR101? Maybe I'll start aging my own WT101 during Tucson's "winter" too!

as for the old charter 12- are you going to put it in a new barrel, or finish it in the barrel that has already contained the turkey?

hmm. seeing as how RR101 is one of the few bourbons I have that is not completely sealed and in a box, I might have to pour some now...

[Chu'Wuti]

Oh, I've found the best thread! This is waaaay better than making wine! Got some studying to do .. . ErichPryde, why didn't you tell me about this possibility??! We have a perfectly nice attic!

[OscarV]

I found a note on aging in small barrels that said 1 month = 1 -1.5 yrs...

so, I want watch mine close... I think I will go with white dog next go around...

Emerald, I don't quite understand this calculation.

What do you figure a month in your barrel would be as compared to a "standard" barrel?

Sounds like your'e gonna have to call this stuff Bootleg Russell.

[kickert]

I found a note on aging in small barrels that said 1 month = 1 -1.5 yrs... so, I want watch mine close...

I would say this is pretty close to my experience. Our 100% malted rye whiskey was aged just a bit over 4 months in a 5 gallon 3 char barrel and most people who have tasted it put the taste as being similar to a 6 year.

Of course, as I have said before, the flavors a small barrel imparts in that time are different than a large barrel: more char / oak / tannins and less caramel / vanilla / maple. A small barrel does do a great job of "mellowing" a spirit very quickly. You can tell a marked difference in as little as a day.

[silverfish]

I want to thank those that have replied with comments

regarding the barrel size/age ratio.

I currently have three of the Wasmund's 2 litres in the

basement barreled on Feb. 1, 2010. One is a Mother's

Day gift for my sister which will put it at 3.5 months in

the barrel. Using the calculations (4 months = 4 - 6 years),

it could be ready to go by then.

I was planning on keeping the other two and moving them

to garage attic during the summer but am now wondering

if I might be better off starting with a new batch - get a

Olde Silverfish Winter/Summer Rye type thing going :grin:.

(Sorry to hijack Em's thread - maybe it's time for a "home

barrel projects" thread!)

[Chu'Wuti]

Oh, yes please! I would like to know exactly how to go about doing this--what kind of barrel to get and from whom, and all other details anyone could share. This sounds like a project my DH would really enjoy! Hmmm . . . Father's Day gift!

[spun_cookie]

Pulled mine from the barrel today. Reid from the Reid and Emerald bottles agreed this puppy was ripe for picking...

Oscar, the calculation is based on surface area. Sort of like smaller ice cubes cool a glass faster than bug ones (with equal total volume) due to the area in which is available.

and welcome chu'wuti... many happy drinks for you my newly found bourbon friend.

[spun_cookie]

OK... Barreling 2. I went with 4 bottles of WT101 and 2 bottles of Old Charter Propriters Reserve 12 yr/90 proof from Frankfort.

Lets see how this turns out after a month or so.

I liked the OCPR just OK. Nothing like teh Louisville botteling. It really lacked depth and had an off taste... almost alcaline. So if the WT over the next 30-60 days matures like the last one and the OCPR follows suit, this should be a fun finished product.

Right now it is about a 97 proof blend.

[OscarV]

At first I was a-gassed when I saw you were re-barreling OCPR, but if you didn't dig it then re-barrel it.

Wish I was there with a barrel thief.

[cowdery]

The cooperages claim smaller barrels don't make a difference, but that's both counterintuitive and counter to most anecdotal evidence.

Of course, size isn't the only consideration. Other variables include source of the wood, how and for how long it was seasoned, how heavily it's charred, even how thick the staves are. I'm told that some of the very small 'presentation' barrels that some people are using for aging have very thin staves (the dimension from the inner surface to the outer surface, the depth not the width) that may not be able to withstand high temperatures. They literally pop.

In Texas, Garrison Brothers is primarily using 10 gallon barrels, from Minnesota, but experimenting with 20 and 30 gallon as well. Finger Lakes is using 'quarter casks,' which I assume are in the neighborhood of 10-15 gallons.

Barrels Unlimited is a company that sells barrels at 5, 10, 15, 20, and 30 gallons. What's interesting is that the 5 gallon barrel is $210 but the 30 gallon barrel is $235. If you're trying to do something commercially, you have to consider that the barrel-cost-per-gallon can range from $8 with a 30 gallon barrel up to $42 with a five gallon barrel. Like everything, the advantages of smaller barrel aging come at a price.

The reality is that three things happen in the barrel that affect the whiskey: evaporation, absorption, and oxidation (and some other chemical changes). Absorption happens pretty quickly and can be accelerated by smaller barrels. Being in a warmer climate also accelerates absorption. But these things have very little effect on evaporation, which tends to concentrate flavors; and oxidation, which tends to round things out.

[Chu'Wuti]

Do y'all feel there would be any differences in outcome between, say, a 2-liter barrel and a 5-l barrel, if someone used the same starter whisky in both?

When would be your preferred time for beginning a batch? I know Emerald is in AZ, and it gets pretty darned hot in the summer, which will raise attic temps out the wazoo. The same is true here where I am in central OK. I'm wondering whether 150-deg F temps would be bad or good.

Looking forward to more education!

Thanks, Sandy

[cowdery]

Happily, this is still more art than science, so the answer is really whatever produces the product you seek, that's what's right for you. There are no absolutes.

High temperature is good and there's nothing wrong with going into the barrel when it's already hot outside. One caution, though, that while heat is good, the point is a hotter-cooler cycle, not heat heat heat.

The other very important point is air circulation, probably not an issue for someone who is doing a single barrel experiment, but crucial if you are aging barrels in some kind of warehouse. Too much density and a closed environment are bad. Remember the old time distilleries, who had a staff member whose sole job was opening all of the warehouse windows in the morning and closing them all in the afternoon.

Don't get too enamoured of one aspect of aging that you neglect all the others.

[ErichPryde]

Do y'all feel there would be any differences in outcome between' date=' say, a 2-liter barrel and a 5-l barrel, if someone used the same starter whisky in both?

When would be your preferred time for beginning a batch? I know Emerald is in AZ, and it gets pretty darned hot in the summer, which will raise attic temps out the wazoo. The same is true here where I am in central OK. I'm wondering whether 150-deg F temps would be bad or good.

Looking forward to more education!

Thanks, Sandy[/quote']

You could throw that barrel up in the attic, somewhere near the fan- It gets blazingly toasty up there. The attic fan would give you all the controlled circulation you'd need.

What were you planning on aging? Any ideas yet? Make sure to save me some for the next time I'm in Norman. :cool:

[cowdery]

If you're going to put barrels of spirit above your living quarters, remember two things.

(1) Barrels can leak.

(2) High proof spirit can easily catch fire.

Whiskey aging warehouses use special lighting and other spark-less fixtures because of fire risk.

Also, a person whose opinion I value says don't use anything smaller than 10 gallons.

[silverfish]

Also, a person whose opinion I value says don't use anything smaller than 10 gallons.

[ErichPryde]

Also, a person whose opinion I value says don't use anything smaller than 10 gallons.

I'm going to echo silverfish here- why nothing smaller than that?

[cowdery]

Can I ask the reason given for this minimum size?

You pick uo too much wood in too little time to have enough oxidation to mellow things out. Oxidation is the main thing you are sacrificing when you do anything to accelerate aging.

[silverfish]

Is this taking the previously mentioned month-to-year

ratio/conversion into account or would that be considered

speculative with no actual basis in fact?

[cowdery]

Is this taking the previously mentioned month-to-year

ratio/conversion into account or would that be considered

speculative with no actual basis in fact?

[ErichPryde]

It's "speculative" in that it is based on a theory that the difference in surface area contact ratios can be directly converted into an aging ratio. It's not that simple.

[kickert]

It's "speculative" in that it is based on a theory that the difference in surface area contact ratios can be directly converted into an aging ratio. It's not that simple.

[cowdery]

We are all talking about a spirit which has already undergone some aging and oxidation and then been cut, was your friend specifically talking about new, unaged spirit at a normal entry proof, or was he talking about re-barreling aged spirit?

A distiller talking about entering new make. No one really has an expertise on this re-barreling thing. Everybody is experimenting.

My point, and his, is that the absorption of substances from the wood, which can be accelerated by using small barrels, is only one aspect of aging. I'm just trying to keep the gap between rhetoric and reality from getting too wide.

[TNbourbon]

You pick uo too much wood in too little time to have enough oxidation to mellow things out. Oxidation is the main thing you are sacrificing when you do anything to accelerate aging.

I pre-agreed -- more aesthetically than technically, perhaps -- with Chuck earlier in this very thread, here:

...The palate doesn't quite catch up to the nose however: and, I think this is one thing -- time -- that the small barrel can never emulate...

[OscarV]

I got a 200ml flask in the mail yesterday from Emerald.

I thought it was WT 86.8 from the 1980's, or maybe WT Old No 8 Brand from the mid '90's.

Both of these are favorites of mine and Em.

About half way through the flask I wondered why he sent it to me and then I remembered his Wild Emerald XXX that he has been aging.

I poured a current WT 101 for a side-by-side (btw the current 101 has improved) and although there was no comparison I knew it was his barrel.

Emerald, you did a damn good job!

If this is what you barreled on January 6 you got some super Turkey coming in another month or two.

Like I said I thought it was 86.8 or No 8. Awesome!

How warm has it been where you are storing it since January?

I'm thinking it'll be to hot this summer.