Alltech and Pearce Lyons Bourbon

[cowdery]

The fact that it took someone five months to notice my mistake makes me feel a little better about it. But if my brother the math and physics teacher was here...

[craigthom]

The fact that it took someone five months to notice my mistake makes me feel a little better about it. But if my brother the math and physics teacher was here...

I'll try to do a better job keeping up, although numbers aren't really what mathematicians do.

Occasionally, when someone hands me the check and asks me to figure out how much each person owes "because you majored in math", I'll say, "hey, that's an application. You know how the operator "division" works on the set of real integers, right? My work is done."

[nblair]

In listing to the podcast, I note that Chuck says "there isn't a bourbon made that is 51% corn".

In fact, Woodstone Creek SBW is 51% corn.

So I was only 99.99999999999999% right.

If I'm doing the math right, if it's not at least 51% something then it has to be at least three grain, although I believe corn, malted barley and unmalted barley would count as three grains.

I know this message is five months old, but I have to point out that the math is wrong. You could have 50% of one grain and 50% of another.

Chuck,

I have to commend you for being such a sport sometimes. I feel like too often people call you out on things just to do it, and if it irks me, it has to do the same to you.

I've been a member of SB.com for a little over a year now, although I did browse for a few months before joining. I can safely say that you are one of the main reasons this site is what it is (other than Jim I guess...). I can't imagine all of the erroneous information that would get thrown around if you didn't post.

For the past year I've been trying my hardest to get a job at a Distillery and I think I have a great shot of getting in at Buffalo Trace. I've had about 7 hours of interviews altogether. Drew Mayville, the Director of Quality at BT, was the first person I spoke to in a phone interview and first of my many in-person interviews. He immediately knew that I had a love for Bourbon and could tell I knew what I was talking about. Drew told me that he thought I'd be perfect for the job and he hopes I get it. He said if I don't get too cocky (not my style) and just be myself I should be okay, although I'm still pretty nervous :cool:.

I can honestly say I wouldn't be in this position if you didn't post on this forum and I hadn't read your book. Thanks for doing what you do. You can be damn sure I'll never be busting your balls about some bullshit that doesn't matter anytime soon. Hopefully I'll get the opportunity to thank you in person at the Festival or Sampler one day.

Thanks again,

Nathaniel Blair

[Tom Troland]

I recently spoke with an individual who claims to be knowledgeable about Pearse Lyons Reserve. I was told that the current whiskey was distilled for Alltech in Ireland, and it is about 6 years old. If so, then it was probably distilled at the Cooley Distillery which, as I understand it, does a fair amount of contract distilling.

Now consider the description of Pearse Lyons Reserve on their website:

"Distilled in dual copper pot stills from Scotland, Pearse Lyons Reserve is the first malt whiskey produced in Kentucky since 1919."

If my source is correct, then the description above is a classic example of whiskey spin - technically correct but deliberately misleading. Cooley Distillery in Ireland uses dual pot stills. Most likely they are from Scotland since I doubt that Ireland has a native still industry. (There are only three whiskey distilleries in Ireland.) And Pearse Lyons whiskey was "produced" in Kentucky in the sense that it may have been aged and certainly was bottled in Kentucky. Nowhere does Alltech claim the whiskey was distilled in Kentucky. Finally, the Alltech Distillery in Lexington does have dual Scottish (Forsyth) stills, a fact they proudly note when you visit. So they are hoping you will assume that Pearse Lyons Reserve was distilled at their Lexington facility. In the future, once their Kentucky distillate has matured, this statement will be true. In the meantime, perhaps, a little spin is in order.

For those who have not tried it, Pearse Lyons Reserve is a good whiskey. It tastes just like Irish whiskey. Perhaps this flavor profile is no surprise.

[cowdery]

In the future, once their Kentucky distillate has matured, this statement will be true. In the meantime, perhaps, a little spin is in order.

Everybody says this, that their sourced whiskey is just a bridge until their own whiskey is ready. Everybody says it and nobody does it. At least nobody has done it so far. That is, nobody has transitioned from sourced to self-made.

Nobody.

[sku]

I recently spoke with an individual who claims to be knowledgeable about Pearse Lyons Reserve. I was told that the current whiskey was distilled for Alltech in Ireland, and it is about 6 years old. If so, then it was probably distilled at the Cooley Distillery which, as I understand it, does a fair amount of contract distilling.

Now consider the description of Pearse Lyons Reserve on their website:

"Distilled in dual copper pot stills from Scotland, Pearse Lyons Reserve is the first malt whiskey produced in Kentucky since 1919."

If my source is correct, then the description above is a classic example of whiskey spin - technically correct but deliberately misleading.

If this is a sourced whiskey than I'd say their description goes beyond (or at least pushes the boundry) of "techincally correct." Saying it was produced in Kentucky when a company shipped it in from somewhere else and bottled it there is, at best, stretching the truth and more likely a blatent falsehood. If this is a sourced whiskey, the company should be ashamed of this statement and I wouldn't believe anything they say in the future.

[Tom Troland]

It is important to note that Alltech has already invested in a functioning distillery. And they are in the process of constructing a new, bigger building to house their brewery and distillery. (See http://www.lyonsspirits.com/distillery/Pages/TheFutureOfLyonsSpirits.aspx). Alltech is a big, serious company, not known for doing things halfway. Also, they are currently distilling whiskey in Lexington. So I'm pretty sure that they plan to market this whiskey. In some ways, their startup with contract whiskey (if that, indeed, is what has happened) resembles Brown Forman's startup of Woodford Reserve. In the early days, Brown Forman didn't advertise too heavily that the brand was distilled entirely in Louisville, not at Labrot & Graham. But they would admit it if asked. Perhaps Alltech is being just a bit more coy.

[barturtle]

Everybody says this, that their sourced whiskey is just a bridge until their own whiskey is ready. Everybody says it and nobody does it. At least nobody has done it so far. That is, nobody has transitioned from sourced to self-made.

Nobody.

Wild Turkey. Was bulk before they bought a distillery.

I'm just sayin'.:cool:

[kyrocklover]

The Alltech rep at a tasting the other night indicated that they would have a bourbon on the market in a couple of years. I hope it's better than their current product.

[craigthom]

... resembles Brown Forman's startup of Woodford Reserve. In the early days, Brown Forman didn't advertise too heavily that the brand was distilled entirely in Louisville, not at Labrot & Graham. But they would admit it if asked. Perhaps Alltech is being just a bit more coy.

One big difference is that Woodford Reserve is still mostly whiskey from Louisville, with whiskey from Labrot & Graham added. Unless Alltech is going to continue to import bulk whiskey and flavor it with a little of their own, the analogy doesn't really work.

I wish I'd thought of the Wild Turkey example.

[cowdery]

Woodford is a bad analogy for several reasons. First, the whiskeys made at the two distilleries are identical in every respect, from the grain bill to the master distiller. Second, whiskey distilled at Shively but selected for Woodford does about half of its aging at Woodford. Third, Woodford has not, except very early in its existence, suggested there would ever be a transition from the current recipe to an all-Woodford one. Fourth, Woodford has been the way it is now since May of 2003. Most people have never had an all-Shively Woodford and the only all-Woodford Woodford is the Masters Collection.

I'm not making a value judgment about Woodford or anyone else, I'm just saying that the Woodford situation is so unique, if you actually look at it, that it's not very useful for comparison to anyone else.

Also, please keep in mind how Tom began his report: "I recently spoke with an individual who claims to be knowledgeable about Pearse Lyons Reserve." (Emphasis mine.) We're all speculating about something we don't even know to be true.

[pepcycle]

A clue to the provenance might be blue plastic drums marked 6 Year Old Scotch Whiskey that were seen in the vicinity of the brewery a few months before the release.

An unusually large shipment of used cooperage was in the area (Woodford Barrles)so that adds to the speculation.

[Tom Troland]

My source also specified 6 year old whiskey, and indicated that Alltech now has an agreement with Brown-Forman to use Woodford Reserve barrels for Kentucky Bourbon Barrel Ale. So it all adds up except that Pearse Lyons Reserve sure does not taste like scotch. Perhaps those blue barrels were slightly mislabeled. I think my source knows the scoop, but I can't be absolutely sure. Fun to speculate, though. What else is the internet good for? There is so much smoke and mirrors in whiskey marketing (see Chuck's book). Sometimes I find this annoying. But it does lend an element of delicious mystery to whiskey enthusiasts' lives!