High West 16 yr and 21 yr?

[bourbonNOOG]

I've noticed the High West brand a couple of time while visiting stores around town. Today I walked into a store closer to home that had recently restocked. I noticed that there was a High West 16 and 21 yr offering sitting there on the shelf. I believe the 16 was priced at $69-$79 and the 21 was in the range of $129-$139. Any one had these offerings?

I usually try to stick to the bourbons that only come out of Kentucky but I thought these looked interesting. From what I understand they have a high rye mashbill (80% i believe).

I'm hitting the beer, bourbon and bbq festival next week in Nashville and noticed that the following are on the drink menu:

High West Rendezvous Rye

High West Rocky Mountain Rye 16yr

High West Rocky Mountain Rye 21yr

High West Silver Oak Whiskey

High West Bourye

I have ever only seen the HW Bourye until yesterday. Any insight would be helpful. I'm looking forward to tasting this offering next week.

[unclebunk]

I thoroughly enjoyed the HW Rendezvous Rye at a Binny's get-together in Chicago last year, but my recollection of precisely how it tasted is lost in the mists of time (and too many samples that day).:grin: From what I've read, all of High West's products are quite good but I'd be cautious about plunking down $70 or more on something I hadn't sampled, unless it's a well-regarded classic rye or bourbon. Have fun at the festival--it sounds great!

[sku]

I'm a big fan of High West which makes some of my favorite ryes. Their ryes come from LDI in Indiana. Most of them are a vatting of the high rye mashbill (95% rye) and lower mashbills.

The Rendezvous is my favorite of the line for its big rye flavor. I also really enjoy the 16 and the Bourye (which is a blend of Bourbon and Rye). The 21 is more subtle; it's still good but I prefer the others.

The Silver Oat is an unaged oat whiskey that they disitlled.

[bourbonNOOG]

Thanks for the insight guys. From the sound of it going above the 16 really doesn't justify the cost. I'm not going to buy any of the stuff until I get a chance to taste it next weekend, but after that it could have a permanent place on the shelf if it enjoy it as much as I enjoy the VWFRR.

[cowdery]

To put a finer point on it, although the High West aged whiskeys aren't made in Kentucky, they're made a few miles outside of Kentucky, just across the river in Lawrenceburg, Indiana. Most people who have had them like them so this is in no way to disparage the whiskeys themselves, just to make it clear that the only thing done in Utah was the blending and bottling of whiskeys made elsewhere.

I've also been told that some of the LDI whiskey High West has used was acquired indirectly. Some other producer bought it from LDI and subsequently sold it to High West. This could be splitting hairs but if someone says they "didn't buy it from LDI," that could be what they mean. There is almost no doubt the whiskey was actually distilled and aged at LDI.

[bourbonNOOG]

Interesting. So High West just bottles or blends and bottles what they buy from LDI. Seems like a pretty simple operation for charging upwards of $70 and $140 for the nicer bottlings.

[sku]

Interesting. So High West just bottles or blends and bottles what they buy from LDI. Seems like a pretty simple operation for charging upwards of $70 and $140 for the nicer bottlings.

Lot's of people do this. Templeton and Redemption Rye are sourced from LDI as well. The difference with High West is that their stuff is really, really good. They source good barrels and blend it well. There are both independent bottlers and blenders all over the whiskey industry and HW is no different. In fact, they are more forthright about the fact that they don't distill their ryes than most American bottlers (they do distill their white whiskeys).

[cas]

I'm sure it has shown up before, but I don't recognize LDI. What does it stand for and who are they?

Craig

[CorvallisCracker]

I'm sure it has shown up before, but I don't recognize LDI. What does it stand for and who are they?

Craig

[Josh]

http://www.lawrenceburgdistillersindiana.com/

Formerly Seagrams, now belongs to Angostura.

[tmckenzie]

Bourbonnoog, I am curious. Not knowing of highwest before. when you walked into the store and looked at the bottles, did you think from the way the labels were worded etc, that the whiskey was distilled in Utah?

[cowdery]

Bourbonnoog, I am curious. Not knowing of highwest before. when you walked into the store and looked at the bottles, did you think from the way the labels were worded etc, that the whiskey was distilled in Utah?

And were you disappointed when you learned that it's not?

[jmpyle]

Chuck I love your stuff man, but the horse is dead - beat to death.

High West doesn't distill the stuff in those bottles mentioned on this post. But they are excellent products none the less. David is one of the only guys that paired a 6 yr old with a 16 year old Rye of this magnitude. "Found", "Sourced", or distilled - it's good stuff. Period.

The Bourye is awesome as well. The 16 and 21 in comparison come off a bit one dimensional, which makes sense considering they are singular and not blended products.

If some guys distilling whiskey in Indiana, KY, or wherever, don't have the vision to put these things out then I can't begrudge High West for doing so.

[bourbonNOOG]

Bourbonnoog, I am curious. Not knowing of highwest before. when you walked into the store and looked at the bottles, did you think from the way the labels were worded etc, that the whiskey was distilled in Utah?

I sense a bit of sarcasm in the wording of your question, which is what I hate about cyberspace conversation these days. If we were speaking face to face and I could analyze your mannerisms as you uttered this question maybe it would be interpreted differently. I'm not sure if you are asking me if I was surprised there was something bottled outside of kentucky or if their marketing execution led me to think that it was bottled in Utah.

I can tell you from my perspective, being new to bourbon, I have not yet ventured outside of all thing distilled and bottled in Kentucky. Considering I come from a marketing background, the label design is spot on. It has all the elements reminiscent of the wild west.

To answer your question Chuck, I wasn't so much disappointed, I was more interested. The best bourbons I've tasted thus far are all from Kentucky. I was interested intrigued what was going on across the US and how it differed.

[cowdery]

I don't believe Tom was being sarcastic. He's just weary, as am I, of having to explain to people that the great little distillery they discovered in Utah is a fake. You're taking it as a learning experience so good for you. Once you get some more seasoning, I predict you'll resent the phonies as much as we do.

[tmckenzie]

Chuck hit the nail on the head. I am weary. I bet I have 3 people a week tell me about the great rye made in Utah. I have to go through the whole thing again. And templeton is another.

[bourbonNOOG]

I already resent them, but that won't keep me from enjoying their product at least once!

[sailor22]

I read the label and understood it was not distilled in Utah. I have never felt High West was being duplicitous in any way. I honestly don't know what you are on about.

I'm sure we are all constantly correcting misconceptions regarding Bourbon and American Whiskey in general

I was reading some trade magazines last week and in two of them they described Whistle Pig as being made and aged at a new distillery - isn't it in fact it is sourced from "found" whiskey the same as HW? I suspect the disconnect is caused by the writer for the magazine not being very educated as to the differences or not caring. A clerk, shop owner or bartender reads that and starts spreading another misconception.

I see High West as the North American equivalent to Compass Box. Both bottle highly regarded delicious whiskey and neither one makes it.

[jmpyle]

Sailor22 I agree. I think what I get a little annoyed about is folks that take such a hard line with this stuff. Taste the product - do you like it? If you like it and it's good, does it matter that it comes to you from Indiana via Utah (High West), or Canada via Vermont (WhistlePig).

Chuck, question for you, and I mean this respectfully. I'd like to know your take on WhistlePig. You are quick to pounce on High West, but I'm curious why you let WhistlePig put "Vermont" front and center and a little tiny "product of Canada" on the back. They've been no more or less forthcoming with information than High West.

For the record, I don't think either are doing anything wrong. Putting "THIS WAS NOT DISTILLED BY US" on the label isn't exactly a good move. It's still great whiskey. Let's all just enjoy it for what it is.

In Scotland they source whiskey all the time and make fine blends. As Sailor22 mentions, John Glaser of Compass Box is making some the finest whiskey in the world - he distills none of it. He does, admittedly tell pretty much exactly where the whiskeys came from. We'll get there at some point.

[cowdery]

Here is what I experienced with Whistlepig and High West, and it admittedly is just what happenstance caused me to experience.

With Whistlepig I learned about it directly from Dave Pickerell, who I know well, who immediately told me it was sourced and not made by them. In fact he is rather proud of finding it, as well he should be.

With High West the first I heard was emails from people asking me "about this new rye made in Utah." When I investigated all I found were a bunch of press pieces, obviously placed by a PR effort, all of which at a minimum implied that the whiskey was made at the distillery in Utah. High West clearly had made no effort to discourage that impression.

When I determined that this was not possible, since High West had at that point only just gotten its license, and wrote about it, I was inundated by attacks from Perkins and his proxies. Suddenly a web site appeared in which, in the fine print, they announced that they sourced the whiskey, though they also offered the unlikely (and so far unfulfilled) promise that it was only a temporary expedient. Although they are now selling products they made themselves, they have not and never will replace any of their sourced products with house-made products.

To this day a casual visitor to the High West web site will come away with the impression that they have made all of their products there and from scratch.

Let it also be said that, like Whistlepig and, for that matter, Templeton, the products themselves are excellent. I have never said otherwise.

Perkins has been smarter than some in that he has more-or-less come clean. He has put some house-made products on the market, though they are nothing like the products he sourced, and those are what he prefers to talk about.

He also did some legitimately good work on the blending and, yes, blending is an art and deserves credit, but the way Compass Box handles that and the way High West has says everything you need to know.

You have to realize that people such as Tom, who is a distiller himself, and I get bombarded with this stuff in ways the ordinary consumer or enthusiast does not.

As for people who become enamored of these products before learning of the truth there seem to be two reactions. Some are disappointed and feel tricked, others go all cognitive dissonant, get defensive, and shoot the messenger.

[TomH]

As for people who become enamored of these products before learning of the truth there seem to be two reactions. Some are disappointed and feel tricked, others go all cognitive dissonant, get defensive, and shoot the messenger.

Actually Chuck, I think there is a 3rd category which I believe myself and the vast majority of searchers of good whiskey fall into and that is those who don't give a care one way or the other. While I long for the day of transparency in the American whiskey market similar to the Scottish market, I don't see that happening in my whiskey drinking lifetime. So I only worry about one thing, does the whiskey taste good. If it does, I want it....if not, someone else can listen to marketing and buy it (e.g. Red Stagg). I understand the frustration of those associated with the industry when marketing overtakes facts, but I would say for most that drink whiskey its the taste, not marketing that is important to us.

I don't need to shoot the messenger (in fact, I enjoy reading many of your rants and hope that some day they might indeed help poke more transparency into the industry) nor do I need to be disappointed when I find out marketing is far from the truth (I gave up that illusion back in high school when I found out that Cambell's used marbles in soup to make the vegetables and noodles to be on the top in their ads) I just want to taste and decide.

Tom

[Josh]

I think part of the frustration may also be that there are guys out there like Tom McKenzie who are actually distilling and doing things "the right way" who, are made to compete on an uneven playing field when bottlers and blenders pretend to be micro-distillers.

Anyone who buys spirits from someone else and bottles, ages, and/or markets it, should have to state clearly on the label what the source of those spirits was. And as for anyone who doesn't want that information to be known, well, I think that speaks to the character of the management of that company. Also I think there is something inherently deceptive about using the word "distiller(s)" in the name of a company when that company isn't actually doing any distilling. There's a difference between that and a DBA name like "Old Charter Distilling Company" etc.

[cowdery]

Where I would disagree with Tom is if a bottle of fake micro-distillery boubon is actually 4-year-old Heaven Hill it might taste perfectly good, but I can buy 4-year-old Heaven Hill bottled by Heaven Hill for $10, whereas the fake micro is asking $30. If I can get that information in advance I can save $20 and enjoy the same whiskey. If, on the other hand, it's a real micro-distillery that has made a product that tastes comparable to 4-year-old Heaven Hill I might be happy to spend $30 to taste that. That, I think, is where your analysis breaks down.

There is also the point I have made elsewhere, that if I catch you trying to mislead me about something, I have to assume you are willing to mislead me about everything. I try to avoid doing business with people or companies that lie to me, if if they seem to make a good product. Why take a chance?

But that's just me.

You may also be of the school that assumes all marketing communication is a lie all the time. I'm pretty cynical, but not that cynical.

[CorvallisCracker]

Where I would disagree with Tom is if a bottle of fake micro-distillery boubon is actually 4-year-old Heaven Hill it might taste perfectly good, but I can buy 4-year-old Heaven Hill bottled by Heaven Hill for $10, whereas the fake micro is asking $30. If I can get that information in advance I can save $20 and enjoy the same whiskey. If, on the other hand, it's a real micro-distillery that has made a product that tastes comparable to 4-year-old Heaven Hill I might be happy to spend $30 to taste that. That, I think, is where your analysis breaks down.

I agree in principle, but if I want to try LDI juice, what choice would I have but to buy it from High West or one of the other PDs? The only alternative I see is getting someone in Australia to send me a bottle of Cougar.

(not that I have a burning desire to try LDI juice, but if I did...)

There is also the point I have made elsewhere, that if I catch you trying to mislead me about something, I have to assume you are willing to mislead me about everything. I try to avoid doing business with people or companies that lie to me.

But that's just me.

No it's not just you. Maybe it just seems that way.

[jmpyle]

Tom you nailed it. Give me something that tastes great. I ABSOLUTELY want to be told the truth Chuck, but I understand a company not wanting to confuse the public, or hurt their business by blazing a sign on the front of their bottle or website: "WE DIDN"T MAKE THIS STUFF".

That's just silly of anyone to expect that. Second, I understand and knew you and Dave Pickerell were friends, which is why I asked the question. He may have told you straight up but take at look at their website. Be objective. Take a look at the bottle - be objective. In each case what they are doing and what High West is doing is no different.

Again, I don't care, Both of these guys are great. Much like David Pickerell found a great Rye, David Perkins did to. And if you taste the products side by side, which I have and reviewed, they are both different yet fantastic. I honestly don't think one is better than the other. So David Perkins did a damn fine job finding that whiskey.

ALso let's take a look at the topic of "Found". I think it's great these men decided to take this product to market, but these weren't "lost". These were products made for something and they got to them, made an offer to purchase them, and market them on their own.

My final point is this - I think berating High West continually and not saying a peep about Whistlepig is not telling the whole story. And we all can count on you to tell the whole story when it comes to Bourbon. Both are great products and both of the men behind them did service to the consumer by putting them out there. The end.