Four Loko hysteria

[OscarV]

On Wednesday Nov 3 Chuck Cowdery posted in his blog about the recent Four Loko hysteria, link is below.

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2010/11/paging-dr-burke-paging-dr-schulter.html#links

Now Michigan has banned Four Loko and similar beverages, link to story is below.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101105/od_yblog_upshot/michigan-colleges-ban-four-loko

Monday we started selling a Four Loko knock-off to compete, it is an extension of A-B's Tilt brand. They are so nasty that they didn't even give names by flavors, they are named for the color of the cans, Red, Blue, Green and Purple.

They also come in 24oz cans.

We have 30 days to get rid of them.

[Josh]

We have 30 days to get rid of them.

Party at Oscar's!:woohoo:

[cowdery]

It's very hard to say that any given action of government is the height of stupidity since governments do so many stupid things, but this is right up there. By banning this product they are fostering the myth that some alcoholic beverages are inherently more dangerous than others, thereby making those 'more dangerous' products significantly more desirable to a certain segment of the market, thus encouraging the exact behavior they are trying to prevent.

It's what always happens when you try to help people by lying to them.

[MissinER101]

The law of Unintended Consequences, now there will lucrative out of state runs made by college students bringing the stuff back in to an even bigger demand. Stores on the border will triple their inventory to accommodate the runs and add a few cents to the price.

Just like my home state of Indiana. Before we had a lottery a guy at the coffee shop made weekly runs to Illinois to buy tickets, I think it was $5 per head unlimited tickets. He made a nice little profit per run.

[ODaniel]

Yea it's here too. So many people are obsessed with these stupid drinks. The liquor store has carried Joose which is basically the same thing, but everyone wants Loko for the name and refuses to get Joose when I hesitatingly tell them. Luckily we have Loko now... Another stupid fad and stupid people drinking them. "This drink is dangerous!" Well so is whiskey if you drink enough. Stupid kids don't understand moderation, no matter what it is. I can't wait until this drink dies out. I'll stick to good beer and good whiskey, thanks. Keep your Loko crap.

[ErichPryde]

To a point, I can understand the concern. If this was simply another high gravity type beer with a high alcohol content, it would be one thing. However, four loko contains caffeine and taurine. It's an energy drink with a high alcohol content. One can of four loko is like 5 or 6 oz of bourbon combined with 2 or 3 red bulls. When you put it that way, it's a wonder anyone can drink more than one of the things.

[ODaniel]

Yea I understand that alcohol and stimulants are not a good mix, however, it's going to happen anyway (Jager bombs anyone?!). At the same time, I do hope they get rid of these. I drink multiple 12% abv beers some nights no problem. One thing I don't do is chug an energy drink with it.

[pepcycle]

In the interest of science, I once again sacrificed my own liver and brain cells to conduct and experiment, uncontrolled and unreliable as most of my experiments.

A group of adults, all over 30, experienced drinkers were asked to consume Joose, one of the alleged dangerous energy, alcohol combos in 24oz cans.

All easily consumed one full can in about 15 minutes and commented on the super sweet taste and lack of sensation of alcohol presence.

All decided to attempt a second and one made it to a third.

Two puked, all admittedly were intoxicated and by there own admission would not drive afterwards and turned over the keys.

The guy who drank three seemed fine and is routinely the hardest partier.

All were over 200 lbs.

A brief attempt at field sobriety tests almost resulted in a fight. (abusive language, egos busting and some strutting upon semi-completion)

My overall impression was that one will not satisfy and two is way too many.

(BTW: What size did Boone's Farm come in? And why is this any different?)

I think a packaging rethink might be in order.

[Special Reserve]

In the interest of science, I once again sacrificed my own liver and brain cells to conduct and experiment, uncontrolled and unreliable as most of my experiments.

A group of adults, all over 30, experienced drinkers were asked to consume Joose, one of the alleged dangerous energy, alcohol combos in 24oz cans.

All easily consumed one full can in about 15 minutes and commented on the super sweet taste and lack of sensation of alcohol presence.

All decided to attempt a second and one made it to a third.

Two puked, all admittedly were intoxicated and by there own admission would not drive afterwards and turned over the keys.

The guy who drank three seemed fine and is routinely the hardest partier.

All were over 200 lbs.

A brief attempt at field sobriety tests almost resulted in a fight. (abusive language, egos busting and some strutting upon semi-completion)

My overall impression was that one will not satisfy and two is way too many.

(BTW: What size did Boone's Farm come in? And why is this any different?)

I think a packaging rethink might be in order.

Interesting report. I'm glad I wasn't a participant.

If I recall correctly, now more than 40 years ago, Boone's Farm was in the standard 4/5 quart wine bottle size available for about one dollar sometimes a little less. No way was is prudent to drink a whole bottle by yourself at one sitting.

[MarkEdwards]

If I recall correctly, now more than 40 years ago, Boone's Farm was in the standard 4/5 quart wine bottle size available for about one dollar sometimes a little less. No way was is prudent to drink a whole bottle by yourself at one sitting.

[SMOWK]

Stories like this make me glad I didn't start drinking until I could walk into a liquor store and pick out something that I wanted, and not just something affordable that would get me drunk.

Unfortunately, it now costs a good $40 to get drunk.

[callmeox]

Yep. That, and Annie Green Springs (AGS) were available for about 69 cents, but we're talking the mid 70's when a oaf of bread was about a quarter.

How big of an oaf? :grin:

[cowdery]

The digression about the 'dangerous' drinks of our youth is pertinent. (Ripple!) But no one was stupid enough to try to ban Ripple or Boone

A 24 oz. Four Loko is the equivalent of 2 to 3 standard beers and one cup of coffee in most markets, i.e., it's about 6% alcohol. In some markets they have a 12% version. Each version has about as much caffeine as one regular cup of coffee.

The problem with banning these things and declaring them dangerous is that it communicates very misleading information to the kids. I happen to think the first principle of teaching kids about life should be always tell them the truth. People aren't telling the truth about this stuff in particular and about alcohol in general.

The dangerous part of alcoholic drinks is the alcohol. No type of drink is safer or more dangerous than any other. The only thing that matters is how much alcohol you consume and how fast you consume it. The type of beverage is irrelevant. That's the truth. Instead society tells kids something that's not true PLUS the false information makes the product MORE ATTRACTIVE to the kids most at risk for hurting themselves.

Then they compound it even more by giving credence to the myth that the caffeine makes it possible for you to drink longer. Again, not true. If you are going to drink until you lose consciousness, no amount of caffeine or taurine will give you even an additional second of drinking time. No amount of caffeine or taurine will prevent or postpone you passing out. That's the truth.

It's the most insane, backward, wrong-headed approach to alcohol education.

[cowdery]

The digression about the 'dangerous' drinks of our youth is pertinent. (Ripple!) But no one was stupid enough to try to ban Ripple or Boone's Farm.

A 24 oz. Four Loko is the equivalent of 2 to 3 standard beers and one cup of coffee in most markets, i.e., it's about 6% alcohol. In some markets they have a 12% version, which would contain alcohol equivalent to 5 or 6 beers. Each version has about as much caffeine as one regular cup of coffee.

The problem with banning these things and declaring them dangerous is that it communicates very misleading information to the kids. I happen to think the first principle of teaching kids about life should be always tell them the truth. People aren't telling the truth about this stuff in particular and about alcohol in general.

The dangerous part of alcoholic drinks is the alcohol. No type of drink is safer or more dangerous than any other. The only thing that matters is how much alcohol you consume and how fast you consume it. The type of beverage is irrelevant. That's the truth. Instead society tells kids something that's not true PLUS the false information makes the product MORE ATTRACTIVE to the kids most at risk for hurting themselves.

Then they compound it even more by giving credence to the myth that the caffeine makes it possible for you to drink longer. Again, not true. If you are going to drink until you lose consciousness, no amount of caffeine or taurine will give you even an additional second of drinking time. When you have enough alcohol in your system to shut down your brain, no amount of caffeine or taurine will prevent or postpone it. That's the truth.

It's the most insane, backward, wrong-headed approach to alcohol education. This policy will not only not help kids, it will actively hurt them.

[OscarV]

The problem with banning these things and declaring them dangerous is that it communicates very misleading information to the kids. I happen to think the first principle of teaching kids about life should be always tell them the truth. People aren't telling the truth about this stuff in particular and about alcohol in general.

Right, it's like when they lied to us about marijuana and we knew that wasn't right.

So when they told us the truth about cocaine we thought they were lying to us again and everything got f**ked up.

[pepcycle]

Once again, its all tied to how you was reered.

Parental responsibility has disappeared in some communities.

How is it possible that some countries don't have legal drinking ages, yet not all citizens are drunken alcoholics.

I defer to Chuck's discussion of truth as being part of parental responsibility.

PS: Watch out for Commies. They are going to take over the world.

[ILLfarmboy]

Right, it's like when they lied to us about marijuana and we knew that wasn't right.

So when they told us the truth about cocaine we thought they were lying to us again and everything got f**ked up.

One of the very few things outside of tasting notes that you've posted that I wholeheartedly agree with.

Oscar, that was a nice and succinct way to put it.

[OscarV]

One of the very few things outside of tasting notes that you've posted that I wholeheartedly agree with.

Oscar, that was a nice and succinct way to put it.

A few more years of age on ya and maybe you'll agree with me more kid-o.:bigeyes:

[ILLfarmboy]

A few more years of age on ya and maybe you'll agree with me more kid-o.:bigeyes:

I didn't know you were that old, Oscar. :grin:

[OscarV]

Now Michigan has banned Four Loko and similar beverages, link to story is below.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101105/od_yblog_upshot/michigan-colleges-ban-four-loko

This story ain't dead yet.

When the MI Liquor Control Commission voted on this matter they did not publisize the fact that they were going to do so.

So the wholesalers did not have an oppotunity to "lobby" them, I prefer to say bribe.

On top of the suprise vote two of the five voting board members were absent and the vote went 2-1 to ban these beverages.

The wholesalers are going to appeal because they say that for a measure to pass it needs a minimum of three votes.

[cowdery]

It was announced today that Washington state is banning them for the next 120 days in advance of some more permanent action.

The makers of Four Loko, a small Chicago company, could never have paid for all this free publicity which promotes their product to its target audience much more effectively than they ever could.

This whole imbroglio is the best evidence yet that all of these anti-alcohol activist groups don't give a damn about kids and really only care about their own fundraising.

[SBOmarc]

The fine lawmakers in Washington State, and all other for that matter should recall that the best way to get young college peeps to pay attention is to tell them that they can't do something.

I dare say that at that age if I hadn't tried this by now, I would go out of my way to do so upon hearing that it was banned.

Thanks for using the word imbroglio.

[smokinjoe]

The fine lawmakers in Washington State, and all other for that matter should recall that the best way to get young college peeps to pay attention is to tell them that they can't do something.

I dare say that at that age if I hadn't tried this by now, I would go out of my way to do so upon hearing that it was banned.

Thanks for using the word imbroglio.

Imbroglio...my dictionary shows the following:

Imbroglio... n 1. Confused or difficult situation; predicament; entanglement. 2. A confused heap; a tangle 3. Cluster F#*k.

[ErichPryde]

Imbroglio...my dictionary shows the following:

Imbroglio... n 1. Confused or difficult situation; predicament; entanglement. 2. A confused heap; a tangle 3. Cluster F#*k.

[CorvallisCracker]

The fine lawmakers in Washington State, and all other for that matter should recall that the best way to get young college peeps to pay attention is to tell them that they can't do something.

I dare say that at that age if I hadn't tried this by now, I would go out of my way to do so upon hearing that it was banned.