Bulleit...Rye?

[kickert]

I am not talking about "tough calls" either. I am talking about cases (and I know of several) where the TTB allowed a product to be categorized a certain way full well knowing it was outside the specs for that category. BUT... in all the cases I know of, whatever it was that would have disqualified it from that category has been clearly marked on the bottle. There may be cases out there where a product is outside the technical specs and does not disclose those things on the bottle, but I don't know of any

In general, it seems the TTB is allowing divergence from the technical specs in favor of a "truth in advertising" approach. Let me be clear, I am not saying this is right or wrong, I am just commenting on a trend I am seeing. As a producer, I appreciate a bit more flexibility (and accountability to keep us all honest), as a consumer I prefer strict adherence to the regs.

To keep us on topic, with what I am seeing here from Bulleit, if this indeed did use used cooperage, it would represent a new low for the TTB. It wouldn't surprise me if the TTB allowed Bulleit to call a product a "straight rye whiskey aged in mixed of new and used barrels" (which we all know can't technically exist), but allowing that deviation and not being clear about it seems beyond them... but again, there is a good chance I am giving the TTB too much credit.

[cowdery]

Gary and Ben, you are both most likely right, I've just become even more skeptical than usual because of some things I've seen TTB do.

[smokinjoe]

I picked up a bottle of this today. It is, indeed, very youthful and grassy.

[TomFischer]

I spoke with Tom Bulleit this morning and learned more info on what is also being called by some "Bulleit 95 Rye " It will hit the shelves nationally on March 1, 2011 for approximately $27.99 750 ml bottle. It is "aged and matured between 4 and 7 years."

Full story on this link - New Bulleit Rye, including a photo and a "Bulleit Perfect Manhattan"..I think I'll make one now...Cheers!

[kickert]

I spoke with Tom Bulleit this morning and learned more info on what is also being called by some "Bulleit 95 Rye" ... It is "aged and matured between 4 and 7 years."

Wow... thanks for the innovative insights... how would we have ever figured this out if you hadn't posted a link to your blog?

This is a 95% rye mashbill (so I'm told) and is at 90proof.

The 95 comes from the fact that it is 95% rye.

another 95% rye whiskey at 4 yrs old..... :skep:

More information on

and his

can be found

.

[CorvallisCracker]

It is "aged and matured between 4 and 7 years."

Cable company: "Will someone be home between 8 am and 5 pm?"

More information on

and his

can be found

.

Thanks for the link, Ben.

The blonde on the left appears to have painted-on pants.

:woohoo: :thankyousign:

[kickert]

t is "aged and matured between 4 and 7 years."

Cable company: "Will someone be home between 8 am and 5 pm?"

I am just impressed that they aged it AND matured it. So many big companies skimp on the second part.

[callmeox]

We all underatand that age and maturity are different beasts.

[craigthom]

According to LDI's Web site their only regular rye is 95% rye and 5% malted barley, so I think it's safe to assume that's where they are getting their juice.

The question, then, is if have arranged to do custom aging with LDI (which I think they are perfectly happy to do), or if they are just selecting barrels and having it bottled. Does it make sense to have it transfered to used cooperage for further aging?

Maybe this is why Templeton is having problems keeping up with demand. I assume Diageo is buying in much higher volume.

I need to find out in LDI does tours. I left Ghent, Kentucky, around one this afternoon. I could have run up there.

[CaptainQ]

Wow... thanks for the innovative insights... how would we have ever figured this out if you hadn't posted a link to your blog?

More information on

and his

can be found

.

Ben, you owe me a new keyboard!:slappin: :slappin:

[kickert]

Ben, you owe me a new keyboard!:slappin: :slappin:

So was it the bourbon spewed out the nose onto sensitive electronics, or, as your smiley suggests, the pounding of your fists in hysteria?

[CorvallisCracker]

I love this place on Fridays.

[callmeox]

According to LDI's Web site their only regular rye is 95% rye and 5% malted barley, so I think it's safe to assume that's where they are getting their juice.

The label in the COLA entry for the product says Lawrenceburg, IN so this has been established.

[jburlowski]

We all underatand that age and maturity are different beasts.

See also the typical eighteen year old human.

[biskuit]

Ah, finally found the Bulleit Rye thread. Picked a bottle up last week, interesting stuff. It doesn't strike me as that similar to the Templeton rye, but who knows. This makes for a nice sipper, but I'm really surprised at the lack of typical rye character given the 95% rye mash on this. Very curious to hear others' opinion.

More thoughts in a side by side comparison w Rittenhouse BIB and Russell's Reserve 6yo - http://www.thirstysouth.com/2011/03/01/three-fine-ryes/ - and Bourbonblog posted their tasting note too - http://www.bourbonblog.com/blog/2011/03/01/bulleit-rye-whiskey-review/

[cowdery]

It appears that Diageo is boycotting me WRT Bulleit Rye. The Shanken Combine is all over it but I can't get my calls returned.

We also have a first-time poster who is all over it too. Hummmm. New social media strategy from Diageo, perhaps?

I don't blame Diageo for boycotting me because they don't want to talk about what I want to talk about, which is their source for this whiskey and their relationship to Lawrenceburg Distillers Indiana (LDI), the Angostura-owned distillery that makes and bottles this rye on Diageo's behalf. Lawrenceburg, Indiana is clearly identified on the label but Mr. Bettridge missed that in his bylined retyped press release. LDI returned my call, they referred me to my regular Diageo contact who I had reached out to already, and who usually is great but suddenly doesn't know who I am. (Or maybe she's on vacation.)

And maybe I'll also ask why they're still saying Bulleit Bourbon is made at Four Roses even though the owners of Four Roses say, no, it's not. When Diageo sold Four Roses the deal included a contract to supply Diageo with whiskey but that was more than ten years ago and the amount Four Roses is obliged to supply has decreased each year. Eventually it goes away.

The amount Four Roses is supplying now is way below the amount Bulleit is selling, so some of it has to be coming from elsewhere. The street says it's coming from Brown-Forman, Jim Beam and Tom Moore.

[biskuit]

We also have a first-time poster who is all over it too. Hummmm. New social media strategy from Diageo, perhaps?

You talkin to me? ; ) (maybe not), but since I just posted my first post, and it was about Bulleit rye, I can assure you I have no relation to Diageo (and my thoughts on the Bulleit are not all that positive since I think the Rittenhouse BIB is a far superior cocktail rye at a lot less $)

Cheers!

[cowdery]

I appreciate and respect your denial. Welcome aboard.

I haven't tasted it yet (see above) but I suspect it tastes more like Redemption Rye than Templeton, all of which are LDI but the Templeton I've tasted has always been fully aged while the Redemption is young and grassy. Not unpleasant, and excellent in cocktails, but clearly very young.

And I share your affection for Rittenhouse, truly the standard in bang for the buck in straight ryes today.

[White Dog]

It appears that Diageo is boycotting me WRT Bulleit Rye. The Shanken Combine is all over it but I can't get my calls returned.

We also have a first-time poster who is all over it too. Hummmm. New social media strategy from Diageo, perhaps?

I don't blame Diageo for boycotting me because they don't want to talk about what I want to talk about, which is their source for this whiskey and their relationship to Lawrenceburg Distillers Indiana (LDI), the Angostura-owned distillery that makes and bottles this rye on Diageo's behalf. Lawrenceburg, Indiana is clearly identified on the label but Mr. Bettridge missed that in his bylined retyped press release. LDI returned my call, they referred me to my regular Diageo contact who I had reached out to already, and who usually is great but suddenly doesn't know who I am. (Or maybe she's on vacation.)

And maybe I'll also ask why they're still saying Bulleit Bourbon is made at Four Roses even though the owners of Four Roses say, no, it's not. When Diageo sold Four Roses the deal included a contract to supply Diageo with whiskey but that was more than ten years ago and the amount Four Roses is obliged to supply has decreased each year. Eventually it goes away.

The amount Four Roses is supplying now is way below the amount Bulleit is selling, so some of it has to be coming from elsewhere. The street says it's coming from Brown-Forman, Jim Beam and Tom Moore.

Not trying to high-jack the thread, but that Bettridge "article" was pathetic. I would not define that as true journalism, but that's the trend these days.

People may tell me to sit down, but I was really sad to hear that Hansell got in bed with Shanken. The Bettridge piece is typical of what passes as "reporting" at the Wine Spectator, as his pieces appear there as well as Cigar Aficionado. I would hate to see that happen at Malt Advocate.

I've heard Hansell defend the Shanken deal in the past, so no need to go there, but I would really love to hear what he thinks of Bettridge's poorly reported piece.

[cowdery]

There is nothing wrong with reprinting press releases in most cases, or of slightly rewriting a press release to make it conform to your outlet's style and standards. The only thing wrong with the piece in question is that it has a byline on it, and if you're a writer, why would you want your byline on something like that? That sort of thing really shouldn't be bylined because a byline suggests it was reported and the writer is writing from actual knowledge.

This is Cigar Aficionado, not Malt Advocate, and MA handles this sort of thing appropriately. If Cigar Aficionado's distilled spirits coverage isn't very credible, well, that's why they needed Malt Advocate.

And, yeah, I'm miffed because Diageo is dissing me.

[JohnHansell]

Chuck, don't take it personally. I don't think they are boycotting you, and it doesn't seem fair to Diageo that you jump to such conclusions.

I found out it was finally being released by reading the CA blog post by Jack. We never got the press release--or a review sample--until we contacted Jack and got the PR company contact info. I don't know who was on the Bulleit Rye press distribution list, but you and I weren't.

If you want the contact info, PM me and I'll get you the info. Once I did contact them, they were very responsive and sent us both the press release and a sample.

Yes, it appears that Jack just mostly put up highlights of the press releaese. Not sure why he did that, but his writing is usually excellent, very creative, and original. If you look at the recent scotch cover story in Wine Spectator (which I was not involved with), you will see the great writing he is capable of.

Marvin Shanken is very big on each magazine remaining independent of the others (which is why Jack wrote the scotch piece in WS and not me). We are still Malt Advocate doing what we always have been doing. Might there be a few changes in the future? Sure. But if there is change, it will be for the better, not worse.

[proof and age]

Look out for more of these LDI bottlings of rye, and also some more from Canada showing up here in the US ala the Whistle Pig model, recently saw an approved label for Jefferson's Reserve 10YR 100% rye.

[Parkersback]

Saw my 1st bottle of this in Brooklyn last night. Bottle looks identical to the bourbon, except the label is green. $35+. I passed.

[craftycoder]

I picked up a bottle of Bulleit 95 because Atlanta has had a serious lack of rye options. I can consistantly get Old Overholt for <$10 or High west for >$50. Wild Turkey and Beam are also around on occasion but for me they don't make a great value proposition compared to Overholt which is always on the shelf. Well, the Bulleit also is no great value. This is certainly not knocking my socks off. Until Rittenhouse finds its way back to Dixie, I'll be drinking my Overholt and saving the rest of my money for more important things, like Cynar.

[White Dog]

Look out for more of these LDI bottlings of rye, and also some more from Canada showing up here in the US ala the Whistle Pig model, recently saw an approved label for Jefferson's Reserve 10YR 100% rye.

Whoa! That sure sounds interesting. By the way, does HH have any 8, 9, 10yr Rye laying around in barrel? Wouldn't that be fun for you to sell? I'd sure have fun buying it. :cool: