E.H Taylor Bourbons

[cgbakerjr]

It appears that BT is releasing some new specialty bourbons. Any of you lucky people who get to try samples have any of this yet?

http://www.kentucky.com/2011/02/22/1644804/buffalo-trace-introducing-line.html

Text from link:

Buffalo Trace is introducing a line of bourbon whiskeys named after an industry legend, Col. Edmund Haynes Taylor Jr.

The distillery has re-created Taylor's traditional sour mash for a limited edition called Colonel E.H. Taylor Jr. Old Fashioned Sour Mash Bourbon Whiskey. The bourbon was aged for nine years and bottled in a canister, similar to something Taylor used in his time, the distillery said in a news release. Its retail price will be about $70 for a 750ml bottle.

The remaining whiskeys in the line will be released during the next few years, the distillery said.

Taylor, who bought his first distillery in 1870, helped develop seven distilleries during his lifetime. His contributions to the industry, Buffalo Trace noted, included introducing the first climate-controlled aging warehouse.

[wadewood]

$70 for a 9YO 100 proof bourbon and imply lucky in the same sentence? I don't think so.

[Virus_Of_Life]

Didn't they just recently acquire the label? I was under the impression they were going to try and recreate the Old Taylor profile from a new mashbill and/or yeast? Were they working on that ahead of time in plans of acquiring the label?

[Gillman]

Well, as usual the Bourbonati all make good points.

The price is not cheap, compared e.g. to Knob Creek.

But the presentation and concept are attractive, as presented by BT which indeed bought the label.

Will it resemble the classic butterscotch palate of ND OT?

Or will it be valid on its own terms?

Reviews awaited.

Gary

[SBOmarc]

$70 for a 9YO 100 proof bourbon and imply lucky in the same sentence? I don't think so.

I would tend to agree. I wish it wasn't that way but whatever BT releases seems to set it's own market.

[squire]

I'm putting the purchase impulse on pause pending more information.

[birdman1099]

$70 for a 9YO 100 proof bourbon and imply lucky in the same sentence? I don't think so.

Thats the first thing I thought. I can get regular knob creek for $30. same age, same proof....

Now if it does have that butterscotch creaminess of the old school OT.... I just might buy one....

[squire]

That's just too much to ask.

[callmeox]

So, did they crack the Tayor code 7 years before taking over the brand or are these honey barrels from the stock they got from Beam?

[squire]

It just hit me (sound of Squire smacking his forehead), this new Taylor expression is reminiscent of the Christmas bottlings the major brands came out with each year during the holiday season. Something expected 30+ years ago and the distillers outdid themselves to create eye catching decanter like bottles that would grab the attention of the holiday shoppers.

So, this new Taylor (can it be called anything else, even at 9 years old) was created, not for aficionados, but for the gift giving crowd.

Hey, look at how much I spent on you!

[cowdery]

FYI, here's the press release. It has a little bit more information than the link above, but not enough. I just got off the phone with Harlen Wheatley and will post what I learned shortly.

Old Taylor Old Fashioned Sour Mash.pdf

[Virus_Of_Life]

So if we follow the names one can only wonder when the Orville Schupp bottling will be released, they have something under the name of every other person mentioned.

[OscarV]

In 2002 when this was distilled the Old Taylor brand was owned by Beam.

And continued to be so until 2009.

So I wonder what this whiskey was being distilled for back in '02?

Also everyone including BT uses the "old fasioned sour mash method".

But anyway it looks like they are trying to do an annual release of something special that we will want to bunker and create a buzz for them.

Taylor's white corn mashbill is years away from being released so until then BT might find something in their rickhouses for a yearly release.

[IowaJeff]

I don't generally rely on other people's reviews for my purchases, but this might be one where I do. I'm intrigued, but don't want to drop that amount of $$ unless it really does distinguish itself. There's always the chance that I disagree with other's reviews, of course, but usually the descriptors used by reviewers, both professional and non, provide some indication of whether its up my ally. I don't want to dismiss it because of the age to price ratio, which is far from a 100% accurate indicator, but it does give me enought pause to not run out and try to get it right when its released.

Kudos for making it 100 proof.

[callmeox]

Will an experimental bottled under another name still taste as sweet?

It is cheaper than the yearly BTEX releases AND it comes in the same kind of fancy tube that I toss my pocket change in at home, so I will probably give it a whirl if I can get a bottle this spring.

[cowdery]

This is actually pretty cool.

Think along the lines of the Buffalo Trace Experimental Collection (BTEC), in that it was an experiment they did just as an experiment, then decided to bottle based on the results. This time, instead of releasing it on the BTEC platform they decided to use the Taylor platform since the experiment was an attempt to recreate something that was done when E. H. Taylor owned and ran what is now BT.

I can't explain why the press release is so vague except that they probably didn't want to make it too geeky for the general press. We, of course, want geeky, the geekier the better.

They are not trying to hide anything except a few details. Harlen Wheatley, when I spoke to him earlier today, was completely open and forthcoming.

We have had discussions here before about references in old literature to "sour mash" that don't seem to refer to the use of stillage but instead to something else that sours the mash. Mike Veach has noted references to this by Taylor himself in the Taylor-Hay papers. This has always been a source of some confusion to me as I equate sour mash with stillage since that is what it means to every major producer today.

This subject has also come up over on ADI Forums, with micro-distillers, because some of them refer to the introduction of lactobacillus into the mash as 'sour mash,' even though no backset is used. Lactobacillus produce lactic acid, which has an effect similar to backset in lowering the pH of the new mash to an appropriate level. Lactobacillus are used in the production of yogurt, cheese, sourdough bread, and other foods. They are also used in brewing. They are sometimes used, as in added, in distilling. Wheatley told me that before they switched to dry yeast, the distillery used to add lactobacillus to their yeast mash.

What BT did in 2002 was make a batch of standard whiskey mash (one of their rye bourbon recipes, not sure which). At BT, mash goes from the cooker into what they call a drop tub, where they can hold cooked mash before sending it to the fermenters. Usually this is just for timing, where a batch of mash might sit there for a couple of hours. This time they deliberately let it sit for several days, monitoring the pH level but otherwise leaving it alone.

Because they were concerned about the risk of spontaneous fermentation or other contamination they planned the experiment for the end of a run so nothing else could be affected and they could clean up afterwards if it went wrong.

They believed it would work because they had seen vague references to the technique, as mentioned above, and knew something like it had been done at BT during Taylor's era. One difference was that back then they mashed in barrels, not the large mash cookers they use today.

To learn more they interviewed six different old-time employees, all then in their 80s and 90s. One was Al Geiser, who was the first master distiller there after Prohibition. Another was Ralph Dupps, who died in 2007 at age 90.

None of them had lived in Taylor’s time, but they all had heard stories about how the distillery then didn’t use backset but instead allowed their mash to sour ‘naturally.’ Dupps was the only one who had really looked into it. A mechanical engineer by training, Dupps worked for Schenley at both BT in Frankfort and Bernheim in Louisville before going to Tennessee in 1956 to build George Dickel. He told Wheatley that he considered using this technique at Dickel.

After a few days (exactly how many is a secret) the pH was right and the mash was otherwise as it should be so they piped it to the fermenters, pitched their yeast, and everything after that was exactly what they usually do. They liked the taste of the distillate, even though it was a different, so they decided to barrel it up.

I have been promised a small sample.

This reminds me of Woodford Reserve’s sweet mash experiment, which was the same except they pitched their yeast and started fermentation right away. The pH of their mash, therefore, wasn’t adjusted. Their yeast were able to adapt but produced a very different set of flavors due to the different environment.

Based on that experience, this should taste unlike any other BT product.

In both the Woodford and BT cases, it’s a good experiment from a scientific standpoint because they only changed one variable, no mash conditioning in Woodford’s case and the use of time instead of backset to condition it in BT’s case.

As for the Taylor name, BT has always been able to use Taylor’s name in a historical context, talking about the history of that distillery, because it was during his tenure there that it became an important producer. Because of that connection, BT has long coveted the Old Taylor brand.

In January 2009, BT/Sazerac acquired some assets from Constellation Brands which included the Effen Vodka brand. Beam Global, which owned the Old Taylor brand, wanted Effen so a deal was made in June. BT said then that they would continue the existing Old Taylor product but expected to re-launch the line, up-market, sometime in 2010 using extra-aged rye recipe bourbons from existing stocks. (See my article in Malt Advocate, the Winter 2009 issue.) They’re a little late but this is the fulfillment of that promise.

As for the price, I don’t own stock in the company so I wish they would give it away, but pricing it at $70 makes sense. It is a unique, limited quantity product and priced below both the BTEC and BTAC.

[PaulO]

The Old Taylor made by Beam was really mediocre bourbon, but at least they didn't try and gouge us like this on the price. Come on BT, don't you know, we're your friends. :shocked:

[OscarV]

$70 for a 9YO 100 proof bourbon and imply lucky in the same sentence? I don't think so.

The Old Taylor made by Beam was really mediocre bourbon, but at least they didn't try and gouge us like this on the price. Come on BT, don't you know, we're your friends. :shocked:

Ditto and ditto.

I think I'll give BT my 70 bucks for some barrel proof uncut Larue and Stagg instead.

[DeanSheen]

Ditto and ditto.

I think I'll give BT my 70 bucks for some barrel proof uncut Larue and Stagg instead.

Yes agreed.

The number of specialty offerings in the bourbon market is becoming overwhelming and the upward trend on prices seems to be more about marketing and accounting than drinking.

I want bottles to drink and are available. That's what is so nice about KCSBR.

[SMOWK]

The price increases are steeper than the quality increase. A lot steeper. Look at the price/quality ratio between VOBBIB and (insert any other 100 proof whiskey here).

[squire]

Lets see, I can have two bottles of Barton BIB, two bottles of Heaven Hill BIB, Two bottles of Dant BIB . . . or . . . wait for it . . . one bottle of Taylor in the cool packaging.

[Rughi]

Lets see, I can have two bottles of Barton BIB, two bottles of Heaven Hill BIB, Two bottles of Dant BIB . . . or . . . wait for it . . . one bottle of Taylor in the cool packaging.

Your liver would prefer one bottle of Taylor.

:cool:

[squire]

Spoil sport. Just when I was on a roll.

[flintlock]

The price increases are steeper than the quality increase. A lot steeper. Look at the price/quality ratio between VOBBIB and (insert any other 100 proof whiskey here).

Words of wisdom.

[Barrel_Proof]

This is actually pretty cool.

...

As for the price, I don’t own stock in the company so I wish they would give it away, but pricing it at $70 makes sense. It is a unique, limited quantity product and priced below both the BTEC and BTAC.

Thanks for digging and reporting the news, Chuck!