Does the ‘perfect’ bourbon exist? Buffalo Trace's quest for "The Holy Grail".

[cowdery]

It would be nice to try some at the Gazebo Friday night Chuck. Invite the folks from BT to stop by. What better place for them to get some feedback. :grin: Joe

You read my mind.

[NorCalBoozer]

We all geek out and taste and post textual reviews about a lot of old bottles...but we really don't use a 100 pt scoring scale (that i am aware of). Generally, at most, it seems to be certain flights of things we throw together and rate within the 6 or 8 things in that flight.

A question...are old bourbon's ever reviewed and given scores by industry reviewers or magazines? Seems like all the ones I see are for present day releases.

Would be quite interesting, if a present day bourbon gets a high score...that there is least a comparable database of reviews from all the stuff from the past...If John or someone gives a new BT product a 100...well that's all well and good....but how does that compare to a '65 VVOF? Maybe the whole 100 point scale is currently skewed because a lot of the stuff from pre 1970 isn't included in scoring up to now?

[fishnbowljoe]

Yes, the perfect bourbon does exist. I know that for a fact. I've found it several times. :skep:

When I first joined here, my mission was to find two perfect bourbons. The smoothest, sweetest one, and the most in your face, high proof one. I must say that I found both. More than once.

As beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is bourbon on the palate of the drinker. Like others have said, it's all subjective. I have given up my "quest" for the perfect bourbon. I'm at the point now where I've begun to appreciate and enjoy different bottlings no matter what. Usually. Yes, there are a few stinkers out there, but virtually every bourbon has something good to offer.

FWIW, my list (in no particular order) of perfect bourbons includes:

Weller Centennial

WLW

GTS

Binny's Weller 12

Everett's Weller 12

Pappy 15

Willett's 28 yr old

ER 101

Etc...etc...etc...

Know what I mean Vern? Cheers! Joe

[kickert]

Know what I mean Vern? Cheers! Joe

I know what you mean... and my list is very similar.

[JohnHansell]

There's a reason why I have never rated a whiskey (or whisky) higher than 97. It's 35 years worth of whiskey-drinking perspective--and knowing that the best whiskey on the market now may not be the perfect whiskey (or even close to it).

[Josh]

Saz already owns two perfect bourbons: Very Old Barton and George T. Stagg.

[cowdery]

If Buffalo Trace says they have produced the perfect bourbon then that's hubris, but if they say that continues to be their quest, even if they say this project has moved them in that direction, then I think that's appropriate and exactly what we want from our distilleries.

[MacinJosh]

Josh, I agree. For me, the George T. Stagg is about as good as it gets.

However, I admit to being relatively new to whisk(e)y (<10 years) and most likely have not sampled the vast range that the majority of folks here have.

My goal is to remedy that in the future. :-D

Josh

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CaptainQ]

Ten day and counting.....:shocked:

Can't wait. :woohoo:

[cowdery]

It's late and I'm tired and I have to get up early tomorrow to go drink more whiskey. I can tell you what it's all about but I don't need to because it's all explained here. So check it out. It's pretty cool.

Haven't tasted any of it yet. That's tomorrow.

[jinenjo]

Sounds intriguing to say the least. Did I miss it, or were the ages of the oak trees mentioned somewhere? Also, the lower entry proof certainly got my attention. Old growth oak used for barrels and low entry proof is something I've been speculating as a golden combination.

[cowdery]

Sounds intriguing to say the least. Did I miss it, or were the ages of the oak trees mentioned somewhere?

All about 150 years old.

[jinenjo]

I'll show some ignorance here and then ask, what is the average age used for modern barrels?

[Neat]

for the nite owls out there: bt's press release detailing the first release (what barrels, availability and price) is already out: http://www.singleoakproject.com/uploads/press/2011-04-28-Buffalo-Trace-Unveils-Single-Oak-Project.pdf

[RegChumpington]

375 mL. Guess I know what we won't be seeing in SoCal, or at least not at reasonable prices.

[RyanL]

Interesting concept and I can appreciate what they are trying to do in their quest to find the perfect bourbon. However, this feels like a pretty gimmicky way to sell lots of 10 year old bourbon(saw something about 8 years too so 8-10 years, I don't even know) at fairly jacked up prices. They are trying to get customers to buy as many different ones as they can afford/find and rate them and that's fine but at $46(SRP) per 375ml bottle it seems more about making money than truly trying to get everyone to taste several different ones. I personally can't see myself buying any of this unless I went to a tasting and a certain one just blew me away. I hope good things come of this and they are able to make a nearly perfect bourbon somewhere down the road. I guess I'll just have to wait to taste it though when that day actually comes.

[fussychicken]

So lets see here, in effort to be able to "interact" and "compare" and more imporantly "earn points" (oh goodie! points!) I'm gonna probably want to buy all 192 of these suckers right? Hmm, maybe some math is in order

192 styles x $46.35 = $8,899.20

Haha, who am I kidding?!?! There is no way these BTECs in disguise will go for $46.35. Maybe this is more accurate:

192 styles x $75 = $14,400

Start saving your pennies now bourbonites!!! Smells like the Diageo Managers’ Choice whiskeys that have gone over so well in the enthusiast community.... Hell, I guess it is cheaper than a couple of cases of PWV15 though! Hahaha, am I right fellas?!?!?!

Oh, and BTW, I would be stoked about the lower barrel entry proof if that meant it was actually distilled out to that proof instead of being watered down to 105 before barrel entry. Chuck can you get a clarification on this?

[cowdery]

Entry proof is entry proof. No change of distillation proof.

Trees are usually 75-100 years old so these are a little older.

Quantities are too small for them to make a lot of money. Marketing intent here is mostly about buzz.

[MacinJosh]

Was anxiously awaiting your post Chuck. Thanks for the link.

Josh

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kickert]

for the nite owls out there: bt's press release detailing the first release (what barrels, availability and price) is already out: http://www.singleoakproject.com/uploads/press/2011-04-28-Buffalo-Trace-Unveils-Single-Oak-Project.pdf

[LikeItWasSodaPop]

I've just been re-watching Lord of the Rings, so the whole Two Towers sequence with the talking trees -- the Ents! -- takes on a lot of meaning here.

I agree with the poster above that the single tree stuff is a mis-step. I got a little bitchy when someone suggested (in my thread about the worst bourbon I've ever tasted) that there is no such thing as bad whiskey. I think that's bullshit. But the idea of "perfection" rankles me to the core. I do really respect the BT experiments as a formal matter, and I really like the idea of getting people to discuss them and evaluate them.

There's this weird thing ... would you rather discover "perfection" or be told that something is "perfect"? I think the beauty of this forum is in the discovery. I love Four Roses Marriage 2008. It sort of smells like my grandmother's basement. The effects -- on me, and me alone -- are magical. I could honestly give one half of one shit what anyone thinks about this bourbon. It is, next to PVW 15, my favorite. If you don't like it, I don't really care. So the idea of "perfection," which really just connotes "consensus" is really stupid.

[RegChumpington]

There's this weird thing ... would you rather discover "perfection" or be told that something is "perfect"? [...] So the idea of "perfection," which really just connotes "consensus" is really stupid.

I respect BT's willingness to try crazy stuff - it's only through the what-ifs that potentially new and serendipitous things are found. And I won't begrudge them their right to sell those as limited releases (in some cases, of course, wishing we'd see more out west). But I think you're right - this really seems to point more in the direction of being something that could be marketed as "the bourbon drinker's bourbon" or "america's favorite bourbon" or something, since it seems to be based upon consensus.

I don't think I could think of a one-size-fits-all, always-right bourbon (or for that matter, *any* drink, alcoholic or not). In that regard I think this will shake out a pretty good bourbon but sometimes I want black cherries and dark fruits, sometimes I want wood, sometimes I want rye spice, sometimes I want wheat mellowness.

It kind of smacks of those discussions I have with fellow musicians - "xyz performance was more accomplished and was technically flawless but I prefer abc".

One could argue this could wind up producing a semi-bland, focus-grouped result.

[Guest wripvanwrinkle]

I think that the entire emphasis upon the "perfect"/"holy grail" aspects of this exercise are overstated. At best this is an attempt to quantify the importance of a set of variables. At the worst, it is nothing more than a marketing stunt. This is exactly the kind of spectacle that ensues when the ideas of a few geeks find their way into the capitalizing hands of product marketers.

Personally, I view this as an interesting release of some fairly expensive single barrels. I look forward to comparing my notes with others.

As for anyone that is seriously considering trying them all...more power to them. I can't wait for the inevitable hunting for that one "must have" honey barrel though.

[dmarkle]

I see this as an opportunity for good whiskey bars. I tend to think that being able to offer a "flight" of these bourbons in small pours could be hugely popular.

As to buying my own bottle, though, I'm not so sure. I haven't jumped on the BTEC wagon for that reason. I think this is one of those, "I'd sure like to try it, but I can't bring to buy it for myself" kind of things.

[RegChumpington]

I see this as an opportunity for good whiskey bars. I tend to think that being able to offer a "flight" of these bourbons in small pours could be hugely popular.

As to buying my own bottle, though, I'm not so sure. I haven't jumped on the BTEC wagon for that reason. I think this is one of those, "I'd sure like to try it, but I can't bring to buy it for myself" kind of things.

Turn it upside down. What if it was made available solely through 2oz samples, say $4 per, pre-buy as many as you want, mail order only?