Does the ‘perfect’ bourbon exist? Buffalo Trace's quest for "The Holy Grail".

[mosugoji64]

This project, along with the information posted here, has been fascinating. While I agree that these releases will be nearly impossible to replicate, which would make them a source of frustration should the results be very good, I am interested to see what BT does with what they learn. Making bourbon regularly in this way would be prohibitively costly and likely never happen, but they may learn some things that produce an exceptional product. Whatever the results, I applaud their efforts. :thankyousign:

[MacinJosh]

All I know is after seeing John Hansell's picture up on Facebook last night.....I'm chomping at the bit to get my hands on these!

~Josh

[fussychicken]

Wow wow wow. So much unfiltered love in this post. I never thought I would be the cranky old man here!

I'm sure not there yet. There is no reason you should be.

This thing is really deep and the only reason they're putting it out is to please people like the people on this board.

I call BS. This "project" shows BT's total lack of understanding of how their limited offerings are distributed and sold.

12 bottles each release that will probably go for about $70 a pop? Really BT? And there are 16 (192/12) releases of this? The stress that the honest distributors and retailers are feeling is palpable. I can already predict the email update from our favorite local retailer David from KL wines: "Oh man, I have been getting so many emails about this, so you guys are just going to have to fight it out in the store..."

I'm sure someone will reply something along the lines of "BT isn't expecting you to purchase all of them." And again I say BS. What do you think their "points" system is encouraging?

And please don't say some snarky line like "that's how capitalism works!" We all know that a huge chunk if not the majority of BT's limited editions get sold through back channels and bid up on eBay. And as a result, the real capitalism will be when BT manages to piss off all their previously loyal enthusiast customers who then stop purchasing their products.

BT, it is great you did 192 experiments. But asking us to spend $10-15k to try them all? Not cool. You should have narrowed it down to something more reasonable. If you really really wanted to let us try all 192, that is great too. But don't do it at $70+ a pop, and don't fracture it. Make it a tasting "kit" where I could have gotten groups of this in smaller bottles like 187ml or smaller all packaged together so I don't have to track down 192 bottles.

Is it cool to experiment with all these variables? Absolutely. Do I applaud the guys like Ronnie Eddins who made this project possible? Absolutely. Did I wish this was handled better? Absolutely.

[trumpstylz]

I wonder what the largest gap between one variable is- the part of the tree- coarse or soft, etc?

[gburger]

From the press release I read, the bottles are 375ml and will retail for $47 each.

Not sure if any will make it to Texas or not.

[sku]

Anyone know what the abv is on these or is that one of the variables?

[callmeox]

Anyone know what the abv is on these or is that one of the variables?

It appears that they are all 90 proof.

[TNbourbon]

For me personally, this is too complicated. I mean, I really appreciate that this sort of investigation and experimentation and innovation is going on, but I'd rather that it happen behind closed doors...

But 192 bottles with 7 variables or whatever?..It sort of overwhelms me, and does not fill me with fervor to rush out and start buying up these $70 experiments.

...I call BS. This "project" shows BT's total lack of understanding of how their limited offerings are distributed and sold...

Yeah, that's kinda where I am, too. Even at a dozen or so releases at a time.

If I 'get' the notion of these offerings, they're 'single tree'-barreled whiskeys. Is this right, or not?

If so, well, then how can they ever duplicate the one I love? I mean, THAT TREE is already used up! And, if they're going to tell me, "Well, we can find another tree just like that one!", they aren't really all that unique, then, are they?

If these types of experiments add to the distillery institution's knowledge, great -- I'm all for 'em! But, as a commercial offering, it's just a gimmick to get some return on research. They could probably do just as well -- opinion- and substance-wise -- selling the barrel to the KBS. Consumers will only be teased so long before they just shrug and give up. (I did that after just two releases of the BTEC.)

[Josh]

I think it's a very cool idea. I think the criticisms have a little validity, but I think the whole project would lend itself well to group tastings like those at the gazebo or at other gatherings. It's all about figuring out how the aging magic happens.

[fishnbowljoe]

I'm gonna say it again. All they have to do is make Weller Centennial again. :grin: Joe

[RyanL]

I think it's a very cool idea. I think the criticisms have a little validity, but I think the whole project would lend itself well to group tastings like those at the gazebo or at other gatherings. It's all about figuring out how the aging magic happens.

Yes, and that is great for a community like this one that can organize a get together/tasting of 12 or more different ones but for a single individual that isn't wealthy he will probably never taste more than 2 or 3 of these tops(out of all 192). That is about 1-1.5% of their release that will be tasted by your every day bourbon drinker. It just seems like a 100ml 12 bottle set or something similar would have been the way to go for at least some of the release if not all of it. Assuming they are really trying to accomplish what they say they are.

[kickert]

In a nutshell: Cool project... but needs to be released in multi-sample packs to truly make it worthwhile.

I would love to participate, but if I can't compare barrels to barrels, then any ratings/notes will be meaningless.

[unclebunk]

The perfect bourbon does exist! It's the one in my glass.:grin:

[chefnash51]

I'm gonna say it again. All they have to do is make Weller Centennial again. :grin: Joe

Yes, I thought the perfect bourbon was already made... and they killed it :frown:

[DeanSheen]

Yes, I thought the perfect bourbon was already made... and they killed it :frown:

Get this man an IBS shirt quick!

(Illinois Bourbon Society)

[IowaJeff]

I think its a great project and the 'quest for the perfect bourbon' is laudable. BT is currently producing some of the best american whiskeys on the market and this shows that they are not content to just sit back continue the status quo--they want to make better products and different products. I seriously doubt BT is making much money off of it Of course the end goal is (or should be) to make money, but I think there is a genuine desire at BT to get a great product out of this project. Of course I would like to try all 192 and won't be able to, but we as consumers should feel lucky to be included in this type of experimentation at all. They could have done it on a smaller scale behind closed doors and only had BT and industry professionals involved. And since the goal, I assume, is to bring a product to market that appeals to a broad range of drinkers, solicting reviews from a broad range of drinkers makes sense.

It's a great time to be a whiskey drinker. With this project from BT in addition to their other products; HH's great line and annual PH collection; Jim Beam doing a 120 proof sb KC, devil's cut, and who knows what else in the works; MM46; etc, the big boys in the industry are really stepping out and trying new things.

[chefnash51]

Get this man an IBS shirt quick!

(Illinois Bourbon Society)

Size L ... for flexing purposes.

[MacinJosh]

When I initially posted this thread I had no idea it would take on a life of it's own. Everyone on both sides of the fence has raised some outstanding points. Again, thanks everyone for contributing!

Here's what I had in mind. As a member of a local whisky club, I've met a few other locals that share my passion for whiskey. Over time, I have developed a more personal relationship with a select few of them. I agree with the criticisms regarding price and the amount of bottles/releases. 192 is a lot. Most of us don't have $10,000-$15,000 of discretionary income to spend on a whiskey experiment. And if we did, most of us would find divorce papers next the the stacks of whiskey. :-) But I thought maybe a few of my buddies (6 or so) could each track down 2 unique bottles out of the 12, and then have a small, private sampling where we all taste and compare. That way you minimize the costs and the time spent trying to hunt these gems down. And even at $70 each, $140 isn't going to break the bank.

I've yet to share this "master plan" with my "6 buddies", but I see no other solution for anyone interested in this project. To try and acquire all 192 by yourself seems like a monumental task unless your first name is John and your last name is Hansell. I don't know about you guys, but BT isn't beating down my door with whiskey samples. For the average "non-whiskey writer/non-high profile enthusiast" out there, this seems like the best plan to me.

Now let's just hope Tom, Dale, Aaron, Pat, and Terry agree. *grin*

Josh

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BradleyC]

It sure would be nice if they would package it as a set of 6 different minis or 200 mL bottles. Personally, I"m probably going to sit this one out. Paying $140/750ml for an "experiment" that no one knows is any good is crazy to me. I can't think of any other 10 year bottle that I would pay that for. If you go to a restaurant when a chef is trying out new things for a menu, those are either heavily discounted evenings or free altogether (minus the booze). I view this as a similar concept and don't understand the markup. The Antique Collection price hikes have been a hard enough pill to swallow. Then you throw in the BTEC (if you haven't given up on those already), then the EH Taylor Series, and now this. It is starting to feel overwhelming and would be too much effort to keep track of all of those.

[callmeox]

$140.00 per 750? The price keeps going up every few posts. At that pace I expect them to hit a C note each when they finally hit the shelf. :cool:

I believe the press release quoted the MSRP at $47.00. Can you blame BT for (assumed) retailer markup?

[BradleyC]

I just saw the $70/$140 in Josh's post above. I think he might have been saying "even if" they are $70/bottle. There is about a $20-$25 price swing on the antique bottles around here now, which leads me to believe there will definitely be retailer markup. Sorry to mislead with my pricing comments.

Even if they are $50, that would be a $100 750ml bottle. I could save $30 buy buying a 17.5 year Stagg that is 54 proof higher (assuming this project will be 90pf).

I like the concept, I just don't like the pricing or packaging.

[MacinJosh]

Yeah, I was assuming $70 each (or 2 for $140 for my "group/buddy experiment"). Each person would buy two unique bottles for $140. Then when all 6 people got together, you'd have all 12.

Most affordable way I can think of. Divvy up the cost.

Josh

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fussychicken]

I believe the press release quoted the MSRP at $47.00. Can you blame BT for (assumed) retailer markup?

Absolutely I can.

[callmeox]

Absolutely I can.

If you find the price to be a barrier to enjoying the program, perhaps you would be better served by a product on a lower shelf.

I think the whole exercise is damn cool and I am excited to participate with the 3 or 4 bottles that I will buy from the first batch.

[TomH]

$140.00 per 750? The price keeps going up every few posts. At that pace I expect them to hit a C note each when they finally hit the shelf. :cool:

I believe the press release quoted the MSRP at $47.00. Can you blame BT for (assumed) retailer markup?

Scott, I think Josh's call on pricing is about right. I think once released they will be priced from $47/bottle (where they will quickly disappear from the shelves) to $79/bottle (where you will find them on the shelves but where they will also finally disappear). This would duplicate the pricing of BTEC bottlings at retail.

I won't comment on the "who do blame for markups" since that post would probably belong in PRC where I don't play.

Tom