The SB Agave Spirits Thread-- What are you drinking?

[boss302]

Right now, I'm drinking a Margarita, my own recipe-- 2oz Camarena Reposado Tequila, 0.75oz Combier (the original French Triple SEC), a dash of lime juice, a dash of Simple Syrup, and about 2oz of lemon juice.

I like Tequila Camarena because it is very high quality (100% Blue Weber Agave), very affordable (<$20/bottle), and doesn't use any caramel. They did produce a top-echelon Tequila called "Trago" a while back, but I guess it didn't get any traction. I guess now that Patron has burned everyone out on expensive Tequila, the mid-priced segment is heating up...

I also have a bottle of Siete Leguas Anejo, and a bottle of Ilegal Oaxaca Mezcal Joven. The former is very rich and whiskey-like, whereas the letter is light, but smoky.

[DeanSheen]

I guess now that Patron has burned everyone out on expensive Tequila, the mid-priced segment is heating up...

[boss302]

A quick glossary of Agave spirits terms:

Blanco/Plata/Platino/Cristal/Silver-- All terms used to denote a fresh, un-aged Tequila. Straight from the still, cut with water to proof, then bottled.

Reposado-- "Rested" in Oak for at least 2 months, but less than a year.

Anejo-- "Aged" in Oak, usually for a year or more.

Mixto-- Tequila that blends Agave spirits with that of another sugar source, usually sugar cane or maize. Aka- "The Cheap Stuff"

Oro-- "Gold", usually reserved for Mixto Tequilas that have been artificially colored with caramel and artificial oak flavoring in order to mimic an oak-aged Tequila. This would be the cheap gold-colored stuff.

Joven-- "Young", meaning pretty much the same thing as blanco/silver. Whereas Tequila distillers prefer the other terms, Joven is a term adopted primarily by distillers of Sotol or Oaxaca Mezcal.

Tequila-- an Agave spirit distilled from the juice of cooked Blue Agave in a region of the Mexican state of Jalisco, surrounding the city of Tequila.

Mezcal-- Originally a term used for virtually all Agave spirits, the term now denotes specific spirits distilled in the Oaxaca region of Mexico. They are distilled from the Agave Americana (also called Agave Espadin) plant, which is different from the Agave Tequilana, or Blue Agave used in Tequila, but the basic structure of the plant is the same. Whereas the "heart" of the plant is cooked in an oven to make Tequila, Oaxaca Mezcal uses covered fire pits dug into the earth, giving the spirit a smoky flavor.

Sotol-- Distilled from a desert plant called "Desert Spoon", technically an evergreen shrub, not an Agave. But, the plant is harvested and distilled in a similar manner-- the flowering portions are removed, leaving the juicy, fibrous core. Sotol is produced primarily in the Chihuahua region of Mexico.

Note: I'll edit this to include more terms as questions arise

[boss302]

Thats great news. I was a big tequila hound till I got sick of the prices. I had fun making pilgrimages to a few bars in LV and NYNY though over the years.

I think my favorite value pour in Ohio is Milagro Reposado. I got pretty burnt out on Anejo's and found myself gravitating more to Reposado's and Blancos.

Of course anything is better than the Two Fingers I cut my teeth on.

[kickert]

Lunazul repesado

[DeanSheen]

I used to like Cazadores quite a bit. Then one day I was drinking the Reposado straight and got wild onions. And I tried it a few more times and the flavor persisted.

I used to drive tractor quite a bit and when you ran into a few acres where wild onions were persistent you got sick of the smell real quick.

I still think it's a great tequila for drinks. I just don't like it straight anymore.

[Virus_Of_Life]

A quick glossary of Agave spirits terms:

Blanco/Plata/Platino/Cristal/Silver-- All terms used to denote a fresh, un-aged Tequila. Straight from the still, cut with water to proof, then bottled.

Reposado-- "Rested" in Oak for at least 2 months, but less than a year.

Anejo-- "Aged" in Oak, usually for a year or more.

Mixto-- Tequila that blends Agave spirits with that of another sugar source, usually sugar cane or maize. Aka- "The Cheap Stuff"

Oro-- "Gold", usually reserved for Mixto Tequilas that have been artificially colored with caramel and artificial oak flavoring in order to mimic an oak-aged Tequila. This would be the cheap gold-colored stuff.

Joven-- "Young", meaning pretty much the same thing as blanco/silver. Whereas Tequila distillers prefer the other terms, Joven is a term adopted primarily by distillers of Sotol or Oaxaca Mezcal.

Tequila-- an Agave spirit distilled from the juice of cooked Blue Agave in a region of the Mexican state of Jalisco, surrounding the city of Tequila.

Mezcal-- Originally a term used for virtually all Agave spirits, the term now denotes specific spirits distilled in the Oaxaca region of Mexico. They are distilled from the Agave Americana (also called Agave Espadin) plant, which is different from the Agave Tequilana, or Blue Agave used in Tequila, but the basic structure of the plant is the same. Whereas the "heart" of the plant is cooked in an oven to make Tequila, Oaxaca Mezcal uses covered fire pits dug into the earth, giving the spirit a smoky flavor.

Sotol-- Distilled from a desert plant called "Desert Spoon", technically an evergreen shrub, not an Agave. But, the plant is harvested and distilled in a similar manner-- the flowering portions are removed, leaving the juicy, fibrous core. Sotol is produced primarily in the Chihuahua region of Mexico.

Note: I'll edit this to include more terms as questions arise

[cowdery]

Tequila is very sensitive to the agricultural cycle because the blue agave must be grown in the designated Tequila region and the plant takes 8 to 12 years to mature. A few years ago there was an agave shortage. Now there is an agave glut. So by all means, there is no reason to buy anything except 100% agave. I like El Jimador, 1800, and Hornitos, Herradura when I'm feeling flush. I've had a lot of the expensive ones. They're perfectly good too, but no better.

I like tequila but I just don't feel it has the nuances whiskey has. Same with rum. They're great, but whiskey and brandy are on a different level.

[callmeox]

I have grown an inerest and a taste for anejo tequilas. I have a Cuervo reserva and an 1921 special reserve queued up for this summer and I'm impatiently waiting for the warmer weather.

Where Cleveland is lacking in bourbon bars, there are a couple of tequila joints with very wide selections which makes sampling before buying very easy.

[B.B. Babington]

...I think my favorite value pour in Ohio is Milagro Reposado. I got pretty burnt out on Anejo's and found myself gravitating more to Reposado's and Blancos...

[DeanSheen]

I tend to gravitate toward anejo, but I've read several places that aficionados south of the border prefer more robust blanco.

[White Dog]

Nice thread! I was drinking whiskey tonight, but after coming across this I poured some Del Maguey Tobala.

Tobala is Oaxacan Mezcal made not from the typical Espadin, but rather wild, mountain-grown Agave that may only be harvested once a year. With wild grown agave, the pinas are about a third the size of the pinas of farmed agave. The flavors are off the charts compared to farm grown, IMHO.

Love this thread. Outside of Whiskey, Mezcal is what I reach for most.

[wadewood]

couple of articles worth reading about the current state of Tequila manufacturing:

http://www.29-95.com/restaurants/story/houstons-paul-revere-tequila

and the attached .pdf

Cinco-de-Mayo-Menu2.pdf

[boss302]

couple of articles worth reading about the current state of Tequila manufacturing:

http://www.29-95.com/restaurants/story/houstons-paul-revere-tequila

and the attached .pdf

I don't agree with them 100%, but they are definitely well-written and gave me a good chuckle.

Interesting point about the agricultural practices with Agave, though, especially with the recent Agave crop shortage about a decade back. What if disease hits?

I'm glad to see that I am justified in my choice of tequila-- Siembra Azul and Siete Leguas. I'd love to try Tequila Ocho, but I can't get any in PA.

Well, if Tequila does get too over-done... there is always Mezcal and Sotol.

[DeanSheen]

couple of articles worth reading about the current state of Tequila manufacturing:

http://www.29-95.com/restaurants/story/houstons-paul-revere-tequila

and the attached .pdf

Man Bobby is pissed. Thanks for the links.

[cowdery]

He's perhaps a little quick to lay all of the practices he decries at the feet of the big, international spirits companies, always an easy target. As I understand it, many of these practices are home-grown. I haven't done a Tequila tour but I've heard about this stuff from people who have, about industrial enzymes and other chemicals used to enhance conversion, etc. I wish tequila experts would write more about individual producers and their practices since talking about brands is largely useless. Many if not most of the brands sold in the U.S. are not associated with a particular distillery.

[SBOmarc]

Sipped some La Familia from Cuervo last night. This was uber expensive when it firat came out and the bottle still goes for $80 plus. Luckily this bottle was a gift.

It is candy in a glass as far as tequila goes.

[timd]

Interesting info - first I've heard of Sotol.

I'll pick some up this weekend and give it a shot... doesn't taste like Gin, does it? Any specific brands or expressions to look out for?

[wadewood]

He's perhaps a little quick to lay all of the practices he decries at the feet of the big, international spirits companies, always an easy target. As I understand it, many of these practices are home-grown. I haven't done a Tequila tour but I've heard about this stuff from people who have, about industrial enzymes and other chemicals used to enhance conversion, etc. I wish tequila experts would write more about individual producers and their practices since talking about brands is largely useless. Many if not most of the brands sold in the U.S. are not associated with a particular distillery.

Chuck, I think Bobby did address this in the comments area of his blog post that the pdf came from, this is what Bobby posted; http://drinkdogma.com/bobbys-cinco-de-mayo-menu/:

Wade – I am going back to Mexico again in June, and I plan to go back at least once this year after that. I am extremely interested in generating a table that clarifies as many producers’ profiles on the following issues so that we can make more informed purchases:

-Agave sourcing

-The use of autoclaves vs. hornos

-The use of diffusers vs. other traditional methods

-The use of additives or chemicals

-The fermentation process

-Distillation techniques

-Ownership

-Marketing and packaging procedures

Yes, Alison’s article only mentioned three brands because these are the only brands available in Texas that really can claim to be making the right decisions on the above issues. There are others still making good tequila, Herradura (now under Brown-Foreman ownership) is a good example – they use a diffuser without additives and have been doing so a few years prior to heir acquisition. I haven’t been to Herradura, and I don’t think it was as good as it once was, but overall, I think they still remain generally committed to traditions – at least for the time being. Partida would be another example of a producer that generally follows quality-driven guidelines for production, but their use of autoclaves (though they do roast for longer periods) is something that is never going to jive well with me.

The bottom-line here is that large brands of tequila don’t necessarily constitute entirely bad brands of tequila, but there are very few examples, if any, that indicate that a larger corporate takeover has not interfered with the quality of the tequila produced. The big issue, however, is that it just isn’t feasible for big business, regardless of how religiously devoted they remain to quality, to sell tequila at levels equivalent to spirits produced from agricultural crops with annual growth cycles. I don’t care who you are. It is time to reconsider what tequila will mean to us in the future because it cannot be sold in large quantities and still exist in the same way it once did.

I used to advocate El Tesoro as well, but over the last year I’ve been hearing some very disturbing things about that brand – moreso than normal. If these rumors are true, I don’t think it will be something that maintains any level of quality going forward. Maybe they will surprise us, but everything I am hearing now suggests that all decisions about quality are being made by the folks you don’t want making those decisions. I’d stock up on old stuff around town if I were you.

[timd]

What's the richest, earthiest, smokiest Mezcal? Given I love spicy rye and the peatier/smokier the better on my Scotch - what should I look for in Mezcal that I might get a bang out of.

If Thomas Handy, Four Roses Single Barrel, and Ardbeg Uigadale/Laphroaigh Cask Strength are my favorite offerings among the "browns" as it were, what might I like in a mezcal, sotol or even tequila?

[cowdery]

Sombra is a good, smoky, single village mezcal.

[cowdery]

Wade,

Give BF a chance with Herradura. The Herradura family sold to BF because they wanted another family-run company. BF has said they're not looking to change anything at the distillery. Their emphasis is on marketing it better up here. I have also heard from independent sources that Herradura is one of the more highly regarded producers.

I've met the people behind Partida. They're very nice people but they're marketing people and it's a new operation, so I'd want to know more about the history of the place they bought. While I think the product is very good, it doesn't knock me out for the price.

As Terry Sullivan once famously said about a new vodka, "it's filtered through the hair of 1,000 Polish virgins." There may have been an additional word modifying "hair," I don't remember.

And I just realized (after I looked at his blog) that your last post was quoting Bobby.

Companies will do what customers show them they value. To this point, tequila customers have mostly responded to shiny objects and unsubstantiated quality claims supported primarily by high prices. Why? Because, as with most things, they're unwilling to do the work to actually learn something.

[White Dog]

What's the richest, earthiest, smokiest Mezcal? Given I love spicy rye and the peatier/smokier the better on my Scotch - what should I look for in Mezcal that I might get a bang out of.

If Thomas Handy, Four Roses Single Barrel, and Ardbeg Uigadale/Laphroaigh Cask Strength are my favorite offerings among the "browns" as it were, what might I like in a mezcal, sotol or even tequila?

I agree with Chuck on the Sombra, and also Del Maguey San Luis del Rio, and Los Nahuales Blanco.

[unclebunk]

El Tesoro's entire line are winners in my book. I love their reposado and anejo, but even their blanco (which they call "platinum") is outstanding!

[ThomasH]

For a summertime tequila drink, I like Cuervo Black Medallion, diet pepsi and a slice of lime. I'm not at all into magaritas, they give me a sour stomach!

Thomas